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King Henry VIII was a Jerk! You don't see the Brits trying to erase his History...

Kurmugeon

Kurmugeon

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Just an Observation about all of the Social/Political Intimidation tactics we're seeing from the 2017 Lefties.

History, its monuments, its historical sites, its museum pieces, its stories, legends, mythology, and public knowledge is about learning from the mistakes of the past, as much as it is about celebrating its heros.

The monuments of the civil war are as much about learning not repeating the divisions and conflicts of Americas past, as it is about celebrating those depicted in statues, and in the names of places and roads.

If we don't preserve those monuments, if we don't learn those names and people and historical events...

We are doomed to repeat our past mistakes!


You don't see other nations trying to erase their history?!!

You don't see the Germans trying to deny the Holocaust or the rise of Nazis Party.

You don't see the Japanese trying to deny the attack on Pearl Harbor.

You don't see the Jews trying to deny that their people were captured and masacred in WWII.

We should be TEACHING about the people of those Civil War Memorials, who they were, why they fought, what they believed in, so we can avoid making the mistakes made back in the 1840s, 1850s, and 1860s.

The people who fought on the side of the Confederacy in the civil war were not MONSTERs, or inhuman, or rabid anti-black slavers.

They were Americans. They were humans with all of their good, bad, ugly and nobles aspects.

If we erase their history, we will forget the lesson that the civil war taught U.S., which is that good Americans can become so divided, that the Nation can be plunged into bitter civil war... without need!

The social / political issues resolved by the civil war, need not have come at the cost we Americans paid for them, but we didn't understand it, because we hadn't yet been though it.

If we don't preserve that History, including the fact that MANY Americans of the South thought enough of their Civil War Leaders, to put up memorials to them,... then we will not learn the vitally important lesson that good Americans, with the best of intentions, can become so blinded by wedge division issues... that it results in CIVIL WAR!


We need to preserve those monuments, to LEARN from them!

-
 
Re: King Henry VIII was a Jerk! You don't see the Brits trying to erase his History..

As I said in another thread: The Nazi statues/symbols were removed. Many of the Stalinist statues have been removed. Should they have stayed? Do we know less of their history because of their removal?
 
Re: King Henry VIII was a Jerk! You don't see the Brits trying to erase his History..

Kurmugeon said:
Just an Observation about all of the Social/Political Intimidation tactics we're seeing from the 2017 Lefties.

History, its monuments, its historical sites, its museum pieces, its stories, legends, mythology, and public knowledge is about learning from the mistakes of the past, as much as it is about celebrating its heros.

The monuments of the civil war are as much about learning not repeating the divisions and conflicts of Americas past, as it is about celebrating those depicted in statues, and in the names of places and roads.

If we don't preserve those monuments, if we don't learn those names and people and historical events...

We are doomed to repeat our past mistakes!


You don't see other nations trying to erase their history?!!

You don't see the Germans trying to deny the Holocaust or the rise of Nazis Party.

You don't see the Japanese trying to deny the attack on Pearl Harbor.

You don't see the Jews trying to deny that their people were captured and masacred in WWII.

We should be TEACHING about the people of those Civil War Memorials, who they were, why they fought, what they believed in, so we can avoid making the mistakes made back in the 1840s, 1850s, and 1860s.

The people who fought on the side of the Confederacy in the civil war were not MONSTERs, or inhuman, or rabid anti-black slavers.

They were Americans. They were humans with all of their good, bad, ugly and nobles aspects.

If we erase their history, we will forget the lesson that the civil war taught U.S., which is that good Americans can become so divided, that the Nation can be plunged into bitter civil war... without need!

The social / political issues resolved by the civil war, need not have come at the cost we Americans paid for them, but we didn't understand it, because we hadn't yet been though it.

If we don't preserve that History, including the fact that MANY Americans of the South thought enough of their Civil War Leaders, to put up memorials to them,... then we will not learn the vitally important lesson that good Americans, with the best of intentions, can become so blinded by wedge division issues... that it results in CIVIL WAR!


We need to preserve those monuments, to LEARN from them!

-
Click to expand...

Yawn. This tired bull**** yet again?

No one is trying to erase any history. It's still all there in books for anyone who wants to to study it, contemplate it, learn from it, etc...

Confederate monuments/statues are essentially two things:

A. monuments to white supremacy.
B. Participation trophies for those too feeble to accept that the Confederates lost.

We already know why they fought and it's already being taught. The people who fought for the Confederacy were traitors.

Preserve them in museums or on private property. They have no place on public ground.

The only changing or whitewashing of history that's been done, ironically enough, by the losing side, in an effort to maintain their false narrative about their cause.

The Battle For Memory and Forgetting Started Immediately – Talking Points Memo
 
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Re: King Henry VIII was a Jerk! You don't see the Brits trying to erase his History..

Tanngrisnir said:
Confederate monuments/statues are essentially... Participation trophies
Click to expand...

Haha, good one. And we all know how the alt-right feels about participation trophies. :mrgreen:
 
Re: King Henry VIII was a Jerk! You don't see the Brits trying to erase his History..

How many statues and monuments dedicated to Hitler and Nazism still stand in Germany? How many statues of Stalin still stand outside Russia, even in the lands formerly occupied by the USSR?
 
Re: King Henry VIII was a Jerk! You don't see the Brits trying to erase his History..

Kurmugeon said:
If we erase their history, we will forget the lesson that the civil war taught U.S., which is that good Americans can become so divided, that the Nation can be plunged into bitter civil war... without need!

The social / political issues resolved by the civil war, need not have come at the cost we Americans paid for them, but we didn't understand it, because we hadn't yet been though it.

If we don't preserve that History, including the fact that MANY Americans of the South thought enough of their Civil War Leaders, to put up memorials to them,... then we will not learn the vitally important lesson that good Americans, with the best of intentions, can become so blinded by wedge division issues... that it results in CIVIL WAR!
Click to expand...

Might I suggest the lesson of the Civil War isn't simply "don't have a Civil War"?

That's like the old SNL sketch where Dana-Carvey-as-HW Bush solemnly declared to the camera: "And if we do go to war, I can assure you---it will not be another Vietnam. Because we learned well the simple lesson of Vietnam: 'Stay out of Vietnam.'"

Glorify treason and white supremacy in the public space and you embolden their intellectual descendants today. Make heroes of that odious cause and you undermine the progress made on the "social/political issues resolved by the Civil War." This isn't about erasing anyone from history. I'm pretty sure the Germans remember Hitler just fine without erecting celebratory statues of him in prominent public squares.
 
Re: King Henry VIII was a Jerk! You don't see the Brits trying to erase his History..

Racist traitors = jerk = anyone.

Pathetic.

Confederate soldiers weren't even American. I'm pretty sure Henry was English.
 
Re: King Henry VIII was a Jerk! You don't see the Brits trying to erase his History..

Kurmugeon said:
Just an Observation about all of the Social/Political Intimidation tactics we're seeing from the 2017 Lefties.

History, its monuments, its historical sites, its museum pieces, its stories, legends, mythology, and public knowledge is about learning from the mistakes of the past, as much as it is about celebrating its heros.

The monuments of the civil war are as much about learning not repeating the divisions and conflicts of Americas past, as it is about celebrating those depicted in statues, and in the names of places and roads.

If we don't preserve those monuments, if we don't learn those names and people and historical events...

We are doomed to repeat our past mistakes!


You don't see other nations trying to erase their history?!!

You don't see the Germans trying to deny the Holocaust or the rise of Nazis Party.

You don't see the Japanese trying to deny the attack on Pearl Harbor.

You don't see the Jews trying to deny that their people were captured and masacred in WWII.

We should be TEACHING about the people of those Civil War Memorials, who they were, why they fought, what they believed in, so we can avoid making the mistakes made back in the 1840s, 1850s, and 1860s.

The people who fought on the side of the Confederacy in the civil war were not MONSTERs, or inhuman, or rabid anti-black slavers.

They were Americans. They were humans with all of their good, bad, ugly and nobles aspects.

If we erase their history, we will forget the lesson that the civil war taught U.S., which is that good Americans can become so divided, that the Nation can be plunged into bitter civil war... without need!

The social / political issues resolved by the civil war, need not have come at the cost we Americans paid for them, but we didn't understand it, because we hadn't yet been though it.

If we don't preserve that History, including the fact that MANY Americans of the South thought enough of their Civil War Leaders, to put up memorials to them,... then we will not learn the vitally important lesson that good Americans, with the best of intentions, can become so blinded by wedge division issues... that it results in CIVIL WAR!


We need to preserve those monuments, to LEARN from them!

-
Click to expand...

Your post of moral relativism falls flat. American slavery was wrong. The Civil War was wrong. That 620000 lives at least were lost to end it is monstrous. Any argument defending the indefensible actions of the South is monstrous.
 
Re: King Henry VIII was a Jerk! You don't see the Brits trying to erase his History..

Geoist said:
As I said in another thread: The Nazi statues/symbols were removed. Many of the Stalinist statues have been removed. Should they have stayed? Do we know less of their history because of their removal?
Click to expand...

Hint: This is America, not Germany or the former Soviet Union.

Americans have a different culture perhaps you are failing to understand?
 
Re: King Henry VIII was a Jerk! You don't see the Brits trying to erase his History..

Kurmugeon said:
Just an Observation about all of the Social/Political Intimidation tactics we're seeing from the 2017 Lefties.

History, its monuments, its historical sites, its museum pieces, its stories, legends, mythology, and public knowledge is about learning from the mistakes of the past, as much as it is about celebrating its heros.

The monuments of the civil war are as much about learning not repeating the divisions and conflicts of Americas past, as it is about celebrating those depicted in statues, and in the names of places and roads.

If we don't preserve those monuments, if we don't learn those names and people and historical events...

We are doomed to repeat our past mistakes!


You don't see other nations trying to erase their history?!!

You don't see the Germans trying to deny the Holocaust or the rise of Nazis Party.

You don't see the Japanese trying to deny the attack on Pearl Harbor.

You don't see the Jews trying to deny that their people were captured and masacred in WWII.

We should be TEACHING about the people of those Civil War Memorials, who they were, why they fought, what they believed in, so we can avoid making the mistakes made back in the 1840s, 1850s, and 1860s.

The people who fought on the side of the Confederacy in the civil war were not MONSTERs, or inhuman, or rabid anti-black slavers.

They were Americans. They were humans with all of their good, bad, ugly and nobles aspects.

If we erase their history, we will forget the lesson that the civil war taught U.S., which is that good Americans can become so divided, that the Nation can be plunged into bitter civil war... without need!

The social / political issues resolved by the civil war, need not have come at the cost we Americans paid for them, but we didn't understand it, because we hadn't yet been though it.

If we don't preserve that History, including the fact that MANY Americans of the South thought enough of their Civil War Leaders, to put up memorials to them,... then we will not learn the vitally important lesson that good Americans, with the best of intentions, can become so blinded by wedge division issues... that it results in CIVIL WAR!


We need to preserve those monuments, to LEARN from them!

-
Click to expand...

Bunch of bullcrap
 
Re: King Henry VIII was a Jerk! You don't see the Brits trying to erase his History..

DamnYankee said:
Hint: This is America, not Germany or the former Soviet Union.

Americans have a different culture perhaps you are failing to understand?
Click to expand...

So Americans respect history and Germans/Ukrainians don't? Is that your point?
 
Re: King Henry VIII was a Jerk! You don't see the Brits trying to erase his History..

Kurmugeon said:
You don't see the Germans trying to deny the Holocaust or the rise of Nazis Party.
Click to expand...

Wrong. Germany has very strict laws about Nazi symbols. You won't find any statues commemorating Nazi war heroes.

Kurmugeon said:
The people who fought on the side of the Confederacy in the civil war were not MONSTERs, or inhuman, or rabid anti-black slavers.
Click to expand...

It depends if you consider enslaving people evil and inhuman. Lee's troops captured free Blacks in the North and sent them into slavery in the South. They killed and degraded Black Union soldiers they captured.

I think you can preserve history without honoring people who fought to preserve slavery and fought against the United States.
 
Re: King Henry VIII was a Jerk! You don't see the Brits trying to erase his History..

Henry was seen as attractive educated and accomplished by his contemporaries. How was he a jerk?
 
Re: King Henry VIII was a Jerk! You don't see the Brits trying to erase his History..

Kurmugeon said:
Just an Observation about all of the Social/Political Intimidation tactics we're seeing from the 2017 Lefties.

History, its monuments, its historical sites, its museum pieces, its stories, legends, mythology, and public knowledge is about learning from the mistakes of the past, as much as it is about celebrating its heros.

The monuments of the civil war are as much about learning not repeating the divisions and conflicts of Americas past, as it is about celebrating those depicted in statues, and in the names of places and roads.

If we don't preserve those monuments, if we don't learn those names and people and historical events...

We are doomed to repeat our past mistakes!


You don't see other nations trying to erase their history?!!

You don't see the Germans trying to deny the Holocaust or the rise of Nazis Party.

You don't see the Japanese trying to deny the attack on Pearl Harbor.

You don't see the Jews trying to deny that their people were captured and masacred in WWII.

We should be TEACHING about the people of those Civil War Memorials, who they were, why they fought, what they believed in, so we can avoid making the mistakes made back in the 1840s, 1850s, and 1860s.

The people who fought on the side of the Confederacy in the civil war were not MONSTERs, or inhuman, or rabid anti-black slavers.

They were Americans. They were humans with all of their good, bad, ugly and nobles aspects.

If we erase their history, we will forget the lesson that the civil war taught U.S., which is that good Americans can become so divided, that the Nation can be plunged into bitter civil war... without need!

The social / political issues resolved by the civil war, need not have come at the cost we Americans paid for them, but we didn't understand it, because we hadn't yet been though it.

If we don't preserve that History, including the fact that MANY Americans of the South thought enough of their Civil War Leaders, to put up memorials to them,... then we will not learn the vitally important lesson that good Americans, with the best of intentions, can become so blinded by wedge division issues... that it results in CIVIL WAR!


We need to preserve those monuments, to LEARN from them!

-
Click to expand...

What an incredibly ignorant post.

The germans do not like talking about the war.
The japanese refuse to acknowledge the atrocities they commited in china.
The jews do commemerate the deaths of their people in the war.

And statues are there to honour the portrayed not give historical accuracy.
 
Re: King Henry VIII was a Jerk! You don't see the Brits trying to erase his History..

Manc Skipper said:
Henry was seen as attractive educated and accomplished by his contemporaries. How was he a jerk?
Click to expand...

I'd call torturing and executing tens of thousands of his own people kinda jerky.
 
Re: King Henry VIII was a Jerk! You don't see the Brits trying to erase his History..

Josie said:
I'd call torturing and executing tens of thousands of his own people kinda jerky.
Click to expand...

Thats because you judge him by today's standards. In his day he was no worse than his contemporaries.
 
Re: King Henry VIII was a Jerk! You don't see the Brits trying to erase his History..

Geoist said:
Haha, good one. And we all know how the alt-right feels about participation trophies. :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

Wait, are you lumping all constitutional conservatives together with the "alt-right", or do you have some special insight into the position of the "alt-right", concerning participation trophies?
 
Re: King Henry VIII was a Jerk! You don't see the Brits trying to erase his History..

This whole thread is based on a false equivalency. I expect no better from Nazi apologists.
 
Re: King Henry VIII was a Jerk! You don't see the Brits trying to erase his History..

countryboy said:
Wait, are you lumping all constitutional conservatives together with the "alt-right", or do you have some special insight into the position of the "alt-right", concerning participation trophies?
Click to expand...

Please quote where I said 'constitutional conservatives.'
 
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