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Nazism was based on Marxist essentials

Modern Setting said:
I'll settle it right now and say that Hitler was a liberal, but that is not the point of my post.

I am just trying to figure out if there is anyone who objects to the thought that Nazi ideas were derived from Marxist ideas and why.
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The ideas that defined Hitler were derived more from Martin Luther than Marx. The hatred of the Jews and ethnic minorities makes no sense in a socialist sense but is still echoed today by religious conservatives in many places. Marx was an atheist and Hitler clearly was not. I bring that up because faith still provides an entitlement to violence to whomever believes it does. Communism was a Utopian idea but at least it was derived of a thought process and not make believe.
 
Tigerace117 said:
You implied that nations with the same ideology could still go to conflicts. Which is true. But neither side wanted to exterminate each other. Which Hitler wanted to do to the Soviets. So your case falls apart rather easily.
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Well, the Soviets killed a lot of Poles because they were fearful that they would impede their acquisition of Poland. They did the same in the rest of eastern Europe. You seem to believe that Joseph Stalin was some sort of Sunday school teacher.
 
BadK9 said:
Well, the Soviets killed a lot of Poles because they were fearful that they would impede their acquisition of Poland. They did the same in the rest of eastern Europe. You seem to believe that Joseph Stalin was some sort of Sunday school teacher.
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But even Stalin was unwilling to exterminate every last Pole. You seem to be under the impression that because Stalin was bad, that somehow relates to what Hitler did.
 
Modern Setting said:
Both the Nazis and other Marxist supporters(Lenin, Bernard-Shaw) wanted to get rid of those they considered to be inferior in order to create a utopia. The big difference is that Nazism focuses on getting rid of inferior racial classes while Marxism focuses more on getting rid of the inferior social class.

Thoughts?
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Both were totalitarian regimes that used identity to define who was better or worse than someone else. Then they used those identities to kill millions of people for the express purpose of propping up the identities they wanted propped up. Their problem was that they both wanted complete control and both had different identities to push up/down. Marxism and Nazism were far too close in model and execution for them to co-exist that close together. The details of how they each defined the identities that were considered acceptable/unacceptable would have inevitable driven them into conflict.
 
MovingPictures said:
That is stupid.

All forms of totalitarianism seek to destroy political opposition, use violent means of oppressing dissent, and believe certain demographics are enemies of the state. That's nothing ground braking I'm afraid.

Marxism-Leninism is a utopian idea that puts all societies ills on industry, wealth, and capitalism. In the end though, every communist society degenerated into a dictatorship. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc all just took advantage of the revolutions in their countries to consolidate power into their hands.

Fascism is built on the emphasis of nationalist pride, and seeks to expand the police state to maintain order. Nazism was an offshoot of fascism, but it stressed ethnic pride along with national pride; which ultimately led to segregation of Jews, homosexuals, gypsies, etc.

The authoritarianism was very similar, but the philosophy is where the parallels end.
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Fascism is just another facet of totalitarianism. A little different tactic in "rallying the troops", but otherwise, the same thing...
 
Kobie said:
Hitler wore pants.

Barack Obama has been photographed wearing pants.

YOU BE THE JUDGE. WAKE UP, SHEEPLE
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It has nothing to do pants, it's all in the facial hair. You almost never see a conservative wearing odd facial hair. That little mustache of Hitler's was 100% pure liberal.
:mrgreen:
 
Even though NAZI had the word socialist in it (in German) it was an ultra-far-right organization. There was no concern of an attempt for everyone having exactly the same thing as would be in socialism or communism. There definitely was an element of jingoism to the NAZI movement.
 
Tigerace117 said:
But even Stalin was unwilling to exterminate every last Pole. You seem to be under the impression that because Stalin was bad, that somehow relates to what Hitler did.
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Stalin was no different than Hitler.

A genocidal maniac, is a genocidal maniac. End of story.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Nice words. Inaccurate in practice. Hitler was the best political propagandist in modern history, bar none. He would say ANYTHING in order to rile up the German people and get them to hate whomever he wanted them to hate. His government wasn't socialist. It was totalitarian, and if you knew anything about socialism, you'd know that. The Nazi's hated communism because communism was NOT about a have a centralized government that dictated to the people. And THAT'S what Nazism and fascism was. And reread your second paragraph. In it, Hitler denounces much of Marxist ideology; he uses their practices for HIS purposes, their propaganda for HIS purposes.

Again, you really need to read up on history. You don't know what you are talking about with your premise.
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I posted this to see other people's thoughts and learn from them. I just wanted a discussion on this matter, and I decided to initiate it by proposing this idea. I was watching the documentary ,The Soviet Story, and it pretty much mentions all of this. I would be interested if you watched it and then shared your opinion on it. You might even like it and find it interesting.
 
Modern Setting said:
Both the Nazis and other Marxist supporters(Lenin, Bernard-Shaw) wanted to get rid of those they considered to be inferior in order to create a utopia. The big difference is that Nazism focuses on getting rid of inferior racial classes while Marxism focuses more on getting rid of the inferior social class.

Thoughts?
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That you do not know really what you are talking about. For one thing, the Nazi's were a nationalist movement, the Marxist and communists were an internationally focused group (Hence the socialist song is "the Internationale").

Where the Nazi's were expanding their own empire for the greater good of the national interests of Germanic people, the communist/socialist movement was to free the oppressed workers of the world to unite. Two completely different trains of thought.

And that is just the first of many many many differences between nazi's and communists.
 
Peter King said:
That you do not know really what you are talking about. For one thing, the Nazi's were a nationalist movement, the Marxist and communists were an internationally focused group (Hence the socialist song is "the Internationale").

Where the Nazi's were expanding their own empire for the greater good of the national interests of Germanic people, the communist/socialist movement was to free the oppressed workers of the world to unite. Two completely different trains of thought.

And that is just the first of many many many differences between nazi's and communists.
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I'm sure the Communists were trying to free the oppressed. History clearly suggests that!
 
Modern Setting said:
I'm sure the Communists were trying to free the oppressed. History clearly suggests that!
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And you are right about that history does prove that. What then happened after Stalin and Mao got their hands on what was once communism has very little to do with Marxism or actual communism. That was dictatorship with a little commie sauce over it. Nazism never had that issue, it was built on blood and conquering/evil from the get go.
 
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