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Nissan workers reject United Auto Workers in Mississippi

Geoist said:
Nissan has a habit of hiring "temp. permanent" employees in Mississippi who must work 70 hours a week to make what a regular fulltime worker makes in 40 hours, so they are far from perfect. You are right that working for Nissan is far from the worst job in the world, but if you have an opportunity to better your bargaining position then you take it and nevermind what the corporate elitists whisper in your ear.
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Hard to take that serious with a broken link.

Where I work, the employer can hire up to 20% of the workforce in some jobs as temporary employees, and it allows the employer to hire and fire at their discretion and keep the best to become full time. They must promote to full time regular when to keep the temporary at or under that 20%. They make maybe 80% of a full time regular at the bottom of the scale. Your temporary employee is probably around 80% of the scale bottom as well. Remember, the average employee pay will be much higher than midway of the payscale, because most employees are already at the top of the pay scale.

It would be nice if you tested links...
 
Geoist said:
Calling Mississippi a cesspool is just an acknowledgment of reality.

10 Of The Worst Things About Mississippi

#1 obesity rate.
#1 high school dropout rate.
Dead last in school performance.
One of the highest unemployment rates.
#1 poverty rate.
Lowest life expectancy.
One of the highest teen pregnancy rates.
One of the lowest GDPs in the nation.
Some of the worst drivers.
One of the lowest well-being scores in the nation.

They have every right to vote 'No' on having a union, much as the drunk 'couple' that just met in Las Vegas has every right to get a quickie marriage.
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Shaming is a really great way to promote the union mindset, way to set an example.

The vote is yet another signal to employers who would like to eventually get away from the infinite hassles of unionism that the south is a good place to consider, and states like Mississippi only stand to gain from it.

Unions should save up their confiscated money and not even bother trying to organize votes anywhere near the south. They're going to need every nickel they can stash away for when the public sector right to work exodus happens (as early as 2018). I mean seriously, why are unions even wasting their money trying to organize the south? How self-sabotagingly idiotic can you be? Just stay away from it. Waste of your time and money. But then again unions are so good with money and decision-making.
 
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Lord of Planar said:
Hard to take that serious with a broken link.

Where I work, the employer can hire up to 20% of the workforce in some jobs as temporary employees, and it allows the employer to hire and fire at their discretion and keep the best to become full time. They must promote to full time regular when to keep the temporary at or under that 20%. They make maybe 80% of a full time regular at the bottom of the scale. Your temporary employee is probably around 80% of the scale bottom as well. Remember, the average employee pay will be much higher than midway of the payscale, because most employees are already at the top of the pay scale.

It would be nice if you tested links...
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Nissan is similar except that it is time based, it is essentially a probationary period similar to what we had to go through when we hired on.
 
Nap said:
While I never said Nissan is perfect, and there are some legitimate complaints.
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And as someone who works in a union while my wife does not, I know how difficult it is for a nonunion employee to have a grievance addressed compared to a union employee.

The fact remains we make good money, have great benefits, and most importantly job security. Having worked here for going on 14 years, I love my job and feel well compensated for my work. So for myself and apparently the majority of others we do not see a need for a union here.
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And if you and your fellow employees believe you do not need a union then more power to you. Personally, I have seen too much of the working world and read too much history to believe that I would be better off without a union.

The pay difference and the 70 hours statement however is false.
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Link?

Many of the negative stories you hear about how Nissan treats their employees are all fabrications to drive support for the union, if those were true you wouldn't see the UAW be voted down everytime it tries to unionize a Nissan plant.
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Well if "temp. permanent" workers were in the majority then you would definitely be correct.


Quick question for you, if there was legislation being debated on that would negatively impact foreign automakers in favor of domestic brands, which side do you believe the UAW would lobby for? Ultimately the UAW doesn't have our best interests at heart and would literally be paying dues against our best interests. The vote would have likely been closer had it been a union independent of the UAW.
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It is interesting how anti-union folks will say the unions don't have our best interests at heart, as if the corporations do. The corporation's basic motive is to make a profit, pure and simple. That is not a diss on corporations, it is just the nature of capitalism. If it is in the corporation's best interest to fire a 25 year veteran so they can bring in cheaper labor, or even outsource the job, then that corporation will not hesitate to do so.

Do unions have a motive outside of simply "helping out the working man?" Absolutely. They are looking to make money, too. But to criticize unions for this motive and refuse to unionize would be like refusing to get health insurance because the insurance companies are making money off of it. Imo, it doesn't make sense.
 
Neomalthusian said:
Shaming is a really great way to promote the union mindset, way to set an example.
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You know full well if a blue state had such sad statistics cons would be frothing at the mouth. Instead of getting defensive and "offended" over it, Mississippians should be asking what are they doing wrong. Certainly that "shining city upon a hill" philosophy of conservatism has abandoned them.
 
Nap said:
Nissan is similar except that it is time based, it is essentially a probationary period similar to what we had to go through when we hired on.
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My union has a probationary 90 days once given full time. However, if a temporary was already that status for 2 years, that no longer applies.
 
Geoist said:
It is interesting how anti-union folks will say the unions don't have our best interests at heart, as if the corporations do. The corporation's basic motive is to make a profit, pure and simple. That is not a diss on corporations, it is just the nature of capitalism. If it is in the corporation's best interest to fire a 25 year veteran so they can bring in cheaper labor, or even outsource the job, then that corporation will not hesitate to do so.
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What I like about a non union job, is that I am paid what I am worth, instead of the same as the worse employee protected from being let go.

For those of us who do preform, non union jobs are the best. The problem is, and like you say, corporate interests rule... This is where president Clinton really screwed up this nation. By signing those free trade agreements. Now we have all these good jobs relocating elsewhere. My job went to Malaysia. Now there is an overage of people in my profession, where there use to be a shortage.

Union jobs may provide on the average, better than otherwise pay in most instances, but at the same time, this higher demand for wages is also making more jobs relocate that can. Cars are one of the few exceptions as you can only fit so many in cargo area. The same space as a car takes up fits several thousand cell phones, and other small items that will never be made in the USA because of president Clinton.

The problem with our wages today isn't union vs, non-union, but the fact that we have a serious trade imbalance.
 
jaeger19 said:
Statistically no. If it did.. then their higher number of union workers would increase their median wage higher than the us.

but they don't.
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American workers got their higher salaries during periods of the 20:th century when USA also had lot stronger unions than today. While during the last couple of decades of weakening of unions, American workers have gotten stagnated or even lowered real wages. While countries with stronger unions like Sweden have gotten real wage increases during the last couple of decades.

For most workers, real wages have barely budged for decades | Pew Research Center

https://translate.google.se/transla...lloneutveckling---internationellt/&edit-text=
 
Helix said:
sounds like a good system. i'd definitely support that.
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The Swedish model also leads to more flexibility. That it is the negotiations between unions and the employer organizations that set minimum salaries and a lot of the regulations and worker conditions. For example, that minimum wages are set in the collective agreement that cover 90 % of workers instead by the government. So, you have different minimum wages for different occupation. You can also have different minimum wages for skilled and unskilled workers and lower minimum wages for younger people.

Also, the export industries if often the first to negotiate the salary increases and then the other collective agreements in private and public sectors are set to that mark. Thereby both guarantee real wages increases and the Sweden economy continue to be competitive.

Sweden also have less strikes than many other countries because conflicts can more often be resolved through negotiations.

The Swedish Trade Union Confederation - The Collective Agreement
 
Geoist said:
And as someone who works in a union while my wife does not, I know how difficult it is for a nonunion employee to have a grievance addressed compared to a union employee.



And if you and your fellow employees believe you do not need a union then more power to you. Personally, I have seen too much of the working world and read too much history to believe that I would be better off without a union.



Link?



Well if "temp. permanent" workers were in the majority then you would definitely be correct.




It is interesting how anti-union folks will say the unions don't have our best interests at heart, as if the corporations do. The corporation's basic motive is to make a profit, pure and simple. That is not a diss on corporations, it is just the nature of capitalism. If it is in the corporation's best interest to fire a 25 year veteran so they can bring in cheaper labor, or even outsource the job, then that corporation will not hesitate to do so.

Do unions have a motive outside of simply "helping out the working man?" Absolutely. They are looking to make money, too. But to criticize unions for this motive and refuse to unionize would be like refusing to get health insurance because the insurance companies are making money off of it. Imo, it doesn't make sense.
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I don't have a link, I just know the 70 hour comment is false be cause the difference in pay is not that great. They top out at around $22 hour. Also, you keep bringing up this as a "temp permanent" thing when the policy regarding that has changed dramatically and now it is nothing more than a probationary period before transitioning to being a Nissan worker. I admit I am not fully up to date on all the details and I can understand their frustrations at having a lower pay scale but even at that lower scale it is still easily one of the best jobs (if not the best) in the state.

You completely glossed over my point. I wasn't saying that unions don't have our best interest at heart, I said the UAW in particular. They represent all of the domestic plants here in America, given how American politics work and the power the union has in lobbying politicians you know as well as I do they are going to side with the majority (domestic plants) and literally use the dues we would have paid in direct opposition of our best interests. As I stated previously, if it had been an independent union based on Nissan or Foriegn Auto workers you would have likely seen a closer vote because many of the people that voted no was not in response to unions but the UAW itself partially due to the reason I mentioned but mostly due to the perception of scandals and job security.
 
Geoist said:
You know full well if a blue state had such sad statistics cons would be frothing at the mouth.
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Cool.

Instead of getting defensive and "offended" over it, Mississippians should be asking what are they doing wrong. Certainly that "shining city upon a hill" philosophy of conservatism has abandoned them.
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Well I live in a red state that's more unionized than California, where government employees make over $150,000 salaries, plus get paid to for jobs they're not even doing, yet are still represented by unions. Like this guy: https://www.correctionsone.com/jail-management/articles/39217187-Prison-official-gets-extra-pay-for-Bethel-duty-while-living-at-home-in-Eagle-River/

Unions own our government. They have monopolized it. It's theirs. Conservatives wouldn't be so anti-government if government hadn't been overtaken by cartels.
 
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Lord of Planar said:
LOL...

An opinion piece written by a Democratic Party politician, currently the chair of the DNC...

Do you realize that politicians are professional liars?

LOL...

You deserve more than snark for that one!
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If the current chair of the DNC is lying about the story then please out him.
 
Lord of Planar said:
What I like about a non union job, is that I am paid what I am worth, instead of the same as the worse employee protected from being let go.
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I'd rather my lazy co-worker get overpaid than my hard-working co-worker get underpaid.
 
Geoist said:
I'd rather my lazy co-worker get overpaid than my hard-working co-worker get underpaid.
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Ah... but both ends up happening, and an employer cannot afford to pay everyone the wages of the best is worth.

The best get paid less than they are worth, and the worse get paid more than they are worth. Then, in general, few people try to accel to be better, because it doesn't get them anything more. There is no incentive to be the best, in fact, the best end up being punished with tasks that others cannot do.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Ah... but both ends up happening, and an employer cannot afford to pay everyone the wages of the best is worth.
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In private industry, unionized service workers earned an average of $16.17 per hour, compared with $10.16 per hour for nonunionized service workers.
https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2013/04/art2full.pdf


There is no incentive to be the best, in fact, the best end up being punished with tasks that others cannot do.
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As a union member who has a nonunion wife, I have witnessed the exact opposite happen.
 
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