In the end insurance cost will continue to climb until we control health care costs!!

The Dems and the GOP can argue about what insurance program is best and will keep both rates and deductibles down, but in the end health care costs will continue to push both higher and higher. Insurance rates and deductibles are based on the cost of providing insurance and that is based on the cost of health care. Health care costs in this country are out of control. We pay more and get less for it than any other country. We need to start to control those costs and to argue that competition will do it is crazy. There is no real competition in the Heath Care industry.

Re: In the end insurance cost will continue to climb until we control health care cos

independentusa said:

The Dems and the GOP can argue about what insurance program is best and will keep both rates and deductibles down, but in the end health care costs will continue to push both higher and higher. Insurance rates and deductibles are based on the cost of providing insurance and that is based on the cost of health care. Health care costs in this country are out of control. We pay more and get less for it than any other country. We need to start to control those costs and to argue that competition will do it is crazy. There is no real competition in the Heath Care industry.

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how do you suggest we control the cost

Re: In the end insurance cost will continue to climb until we control health care cos

independentusa said:

The Dems and the GOP can argue about what insurance program is best and will keep both rates and deductibles down, but in the end health care costs will continue to push both higher and higher. Insurance rates and deductibles are based on the cost of providing insurance and that is based on the cost of health care. Health care costs in this country are out of control. We pay more and get less for it than any other country. We need to start to control those costs and to argue that competition will do it is crazy. There is no real competition in the Heath Care industry.

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Health control costs can spiral out of control because there is no regulation on pharmaceuticals and medical equipment. Just the other week I was looking into purchasing new binders for patients paper charts. I found them on the medical equipment company for $64. these are just a hard plastic binder capable of being wiped down with bleach. I found them from a non-medical equipment company, as far as I could tell they are identical except for company name, $20 a piece. Pharmaceuticals and Equipment are just a few ways that costs keep going up

Re: In the end insurance cost will continue to climb until we control health care cos

independentusa said:

The Dems and the GOP can argue about what insurance program is best and will keep both rates and deductibles down, but in the end health care costs will continue to push both higher and higher. Insurance rates and deductibles are based on the cost of providing insurance and that is based on the cost of health care. Health care costs in this country are out of control. We pay more and get less for it than any other country. We need to start to control those costs and to argue that competition will do it is crazy. There is no real competition in the Heath Care industry.

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Now only "how do we control the costs"...but "who" do you suggest does the controlling?

Re: In the end insurance cost will continue to climb until we control health care cos

Chillfolks said:

how do you suggest we control the cost

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Getting people off the dole and back to work will help. True, that does not attack the cost side, but working people seem to have fewer medical needs because they are less subsidized if at all, and are not eager to shell out for a cold that will go away.

BTW, I have heard little about medical tort reform. Has that happened as part of Obamacare?

Re: In the end insurance cost will continue to climb until we control health care cos

Mycroft said:

Now only "how do we control the costs"...but "who" do you suggest does the controlling?

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Why Washington DC, who else?

Re: In the end insurance cost will continue to climb until we control health care cos

independentusa said:

The Dems and the GOP can argue about what insurance program is best and will keep both rates and deductibles down, but in the end health care costs will continue to push both higher and higher. Insurance rates and deductibles are based on the cost of providing insurance and that is based on the cost of health care. Health care costs in this country are out of control. We pay more and get less for it than any other country. We need to start to control those costs and to argue that competition will do it is crazy. There is no real competition in the Heath Care industry.

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Most social democracies control costs of healthcare for the poor to middle middle class. This mean unavailability of procedures, longer waiting times, restricting the time doctors get paid for by procedure, fining doctors for prescripting medicines to her pool of patients above a certain level etc.

Re: In the end insurance cost will continue to climb until we control health care cos

chuckiechan said:

Why Washington DC, who else?

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That's what I'm afraid of.

Re: In the end insurance cost will continue to climb until we control health care cos

Mycroft said:

That's what I'm afraid of.

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Well we have let capitalists and corporations control the healthcare costs, how has that done for us? Spiraling out of control costs and price gouging for medical equipment and drugs.

Re: In the end insurance cost will continue to climb until we control health care cos

Praxas said:

Well we have let capitalists and corporations control the healthcare costs, how has that done for us? Spiraling out of control costs and price gouging for medical equipment and drugs.

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They don't "control" much of anything. The market sets prices. This is true under any conditions, even ones where people think there are "price controls." You can only pretend that something costs less than it does (or more, for that matter) for so long.

Re: In the end insurance cost will continue to climb until we control health care cos

Harshaw said:

They don't "control" much of anything. The market sets prices. This is true under any conditions, even ones where people think there are "price controls." You can only pretend that something costs less than it does (or more, for that matter) for so long.

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So the CEO of the company that raised it's epipen prices 600% was because of the market? Gimme a break.

Re: In the end insurance cost will continue to climb until we control health care cos

Praxas said:

So the CEO of the company that raised it's epipen prices 600% was because of the market? Gimme a break.

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How'd that work out for him? Or did your curiosity end with the initial rage fest?

Re: In the end insurance cost will continue to climb until we control health care cos

Harshaw said:

How'd that work out for him? Or did your curiosity end with the initial rage fest?

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That was an extreme example but companies do this all the time at a lower level and they don't get noticed as much, but still increase costs. Same with much of the "generic" medical equipment and supplies out there. Yes, I can understand a new machine that just came out with new technology costing that much, but simple supplies shouldn't be raised at higher costs each year. The US let's government protected monopolies set their prices on drugs.

Seems you are ok with price gouging which raises costs. Pathetic.

Re: In the end insurance cost will continue to climb until we control health care cos

Praxas said:

So the CEO of the company that raised it's epipen prices 600% was because of the market? Gimme a break.

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No its because the govt regulated Epipen competition out of existence as its done with many other health products. However, since they raised the price, several competitors entered the market.

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/06/epipen-rival-allergy-devices-see-increase-in-prescriptions.html

Re: In the end insurance cost will continue to climb until we control health care cos

jonny5 said:

No its because the govt regulated Epipen competition out of existence as its done with many other health products. However, since they raised the price, several competitors entered the market.

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You just contradicted your own comments. How can they all have been regulated out of existence but then have several competitors show up? More anti-government bull**** from you it seems.

Re: In the end insurance cost will continue to climb until we control health care cos

Praxas said:

That was an extreme example but companies do this all the time at a lower level and they don't get noticed as much, but still increase costs. Same with much of the "generic" medical equipment and supplies out there. Yes, I can understand a new machine that just came out with new technology costing that much, but simple supplies shouldn't be raised at higher costs each year. The US let's government protected monopolies set their prices on drugs.

Seems you are ok with price gouging which raises costs. Pathetic.

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If you think what you said about me is true, you didn't understand a word I wrote. Pity.

Re: In the end insurance cost will continue to climb until we control health care cos

Harshaw said:

If you think what you said about me is true, you didn't understand a word I wrote. Pity.

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You've just defended the price gouging that companies do. Nope I am quite correct. You want corporations to regulate their own costs which is what is causing the rise.

Re: In the end insurance cost will continue to climb until we control health care cos

independentusa said:

The Dems and the GOP can argue about what insurance program is best and will keep both rates and deductibles down, but in the end health care costs will continue to push both higher and higher. Insurance rates and deductibles are based on the cost of providing insurance and that is based on the cost of health care. Health care costs in this country are out of control. We pay more and get less for it than any other country. We need to start to control those costs and to argue that competition will do it is crazy. There is no real competition in the Heath Care industry.

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I really don't think controlling healthcare costs has ever been effectively addressed. Examples...

Real tort reform... A drug company developed a drug per FDA guidelines which involves staged testing, etc., etc., and may take ten years or more to accomplish. Said drug company knows there are side effects and possible complications, tests for them, quantifies them, and the FDA eventually approves this drug for market. they carefully list all side effects and the percentage of people likely to be adversely effected. Doctors put the drug out there with the FDAs blessing. And pretty much sooner or later, attorneys take up a class action suit and sue the hell out of the drug company for billions. This is wrong.

The length of drug patents protecting big pharmaceutical from generic competition needs to be reformed.

Drugs need to be allowed on the market sooner rather than later in carefully controlled clinical trials.

Medicare needs to be means tested to include total assets rather than just income tested.

ER care should include triaging nonemergencies into clinic appointments.

I could think of many more ways to begin controlling the cost of healthcare. The fact is, as long as we are giving it away? We can't control costs. Medicaid should have a reasonable and low deductible and even incentivize people NOT to use ER facilities by rewarding them with that deductible in their pockets if it's not used in treatment. Watch unnecessary ER visits fall off...

Re: In the end insurance cost will continue to climb until we control health care cos

Praxas said:

You've just defended the price gouging that companies do. Nope I am quite correct. You want corporations to regulate their own costs which is what is causing the rise.

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No, I most certainly did not. Nor did I say that's what I "want."

What I actually did say is apparently beyond your grasp, which is entirely your own problem.

Re: In the end insurance cost will continue to climb until we control health care cos

Praxas said:

Well we have let capitalists and corporations control the healthcare costs, how has that done for us? Spiraling out of control costs and price gouging for medical equipment and drugs.

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???

We haven't let capitalists, corporations...or even consumers...control healthcare costs since the early 1900's.

Re: In the end insurance cost will continue to climb until we control health care cos

Costs will ALWAYS go up BECAUSE of your insistence on controlling them. But no, central planners never admit fault, they always double down on government interference and giveaways to the insurance companies.

I KNOW! Lets have single payer and let those crooks write the laws! That way we can have 15% of our pay taken out of our checks automatically to get a ****ty system like Germany's. Lets go full retard everyone!

Re: In the end insurance cost will continue to climb until we control health care cos

Praxas said:

You just contradicted your own comments. How can they all have been regulated out of existence but then have several competitors show up? More anti-government bull**** from you it seems.

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No need to be rude. Civility is a MUST!

Re: In the end insurance cost will continue to climb until we control health care cos

Mycroft said:

That's what I'm afraid of.

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The Federal government already, but indirectly, is responsible for out of control prices by regulating the hospitals. The Joint Commission and CMS sets the standards hospitals have to go by in order to receive federal payments (payment for Medicare patients). The standards push hospitals forward to update equipment and facilities to the changing paradigms of healthcare. The problem is, the medical equipment companies can charge whatever mark-up they please because they know a hospital has no choice but to get it or can shut their doors for failure to meet Commission and CMS standards. No one truly wants the government to stop regulating and pushing hospitals for innovation, but the forced innovation means opportunists have easy prey without any regulations against them.

Re: In the end insurance cost will continue to climb until we control health care cos

ModerateRN said:

The Federal government already, but indirectly, is responsible for out of control prices by regulating the hospitals. The Joint Commission and CMS sets the standards hospitals have to go by in order to receive federal payments (payment for Medicare patients). The standards push hospitals forward to update equipment and facilities to the changing paradigms of healthcare. The problem is, the medical equipment companies can charge whatever mark-up they please because they know a hospital has no choice but to get it or can shut their doors for failure to meet Commission and CMS standards. No one truly wants the government to stop regulating and pushing hospitals for innovation, but the forced innovation means opportunists have easy prey without any regulations against them.

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That is only one layer of the government-control onion.

Re: In the end insurance cost will continue to climb until we control health care cos

We did have a program in place when Reagan came into office. Reagan said that competition would help control costs better and we have what we have today, cost out of control. What we had before Reagan was regional health care planning. Each health care region, there were many in each state, controlled health care by controlling the spending on services and health care capital purchases. A good example would be CAT scanners. If a facility in a health care region wanted to buy a scanner, they had to show there was an actual need for the scanner in that region. That meant that it had to show there was an actual need for a scanner or an additional scanner was needed to provide adequate services for patients. Now lets say in an area there is one Cat Scanner and it is running at 95% capacity and people are having a hard time getting appointments. The planning committee. Would approve a second one. If the single scanner was running at 50%, a second would not be allowed, thus saving the health care system the extra costs. What we have now is in the same area 5 or more scanners all running at 20% and the cost per unit goes way up. Not only that but doctors are pushed to have more Cat scans done to help cover costs. Many of those scans are unnecessary and only push up the cost of health care. So the system worked to some extent to help keep done health care costs, even during a period when new types of equipment were pushing hard at health care costs. Reagan, being who he was, told us that he believed that competition would do a better job with health care costs. He was wrong. Like many people who are outside of health care, he didn't realize that there is no real market competition in health care.