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Political Prejudice v Racial Pejudice

This can be often true of how people think fiscally, but not socially. Once you realize it is wrong to ban gay marriage there is no going back. Once you realize how poisonous religion is there's no going back.

Furthermore people become fiscally conservative because they make more money, become financially stable, and don't want the government taxing them. Young people of today are struggling financially far later in life than previous generations were. So much property and wealth has been consolidated in the baby boomer generation, that you can expect that transition to be much slower.

Once conservatives of today are defeated, I'm sure some younger liberals will transition into a newer version of conservativism, but it will be more like libertarianism than what modern conservativism looks like.




Keep in mind that Hillary Clinton still won the popular vote. Democrats have won 6 out of the last 7 popular votes in this country going back to 1992. Republicans have held on by gerrymandering, bad timing, stifling the vote, and outright lying. They will not be able to keep it up forever.

You sound like that idiot Obama..."The arc of history is for sure going my way!".

No better than these fools who get down on their knees to God sure that they will be saved because they "think right".
 
What exactly is burning? People are angry at each other. Our economy is still rolling a long. Our unemployment is low. We have a higher quality of life than most of the world.

Before this last election there were Republican leaders(not just random assholes, but actual elected leaders) where were talking about armed rebellion if Hillary won. Ask yourself if there was another Civil War in this country which side do you really think would start it? Who would fire the first shots? Gun toting Southern Conservatives or Northern Liberals and their fancy book learning? Who's more likely to want to fight a war of ideas instead of a war of bullets? The educated or the ignorant?

The economy works very poorly, and that is WITH supporting it with massive wealth transfers from the kids and unborn through the generational warfare of debt.
 
How much do we really get to choose our ideas?

You have 100% choice over your ideas. Even the brainwashed can be un-brainwashed.

Ask yourself this though. Who is more likely to succeed at brainwashing people. Religious zealots who start drilling religion into their children's heads as infants or college professors who don't even get access to minds until they are almost into their 20's. Science can be double checked and confirmed. Religion cannot. If one of those is a lie which one would be most likely to get away with their lie. Scientists or Religious leaders?
 
Given that we have decided to divide ourselves mostly into two politically oriented clans or tribes how is a member of one hating on the other not as bad as is a black person hating white people say?

It sure does work to destroy a nation.

Look at where we are.

Maybe we rethink.

BE BETTER




May I have your thoughts please...

tyvm

:2wave:

I'm a Centrist. We should all be like me.

Be like Calamity :)
 
Given that we have decided to divide ourselves mostly into two politically oriented clans or tribes how is a member of one hating on the other not as bad as is a black person hating white people say?

It sure does work to destroy a nation.

Look at where we are.

Maybe we rethink.

BE BETTER




May I have your thoughts please...

tyvm

:2wave:

I agree with you, Prejudice against the group, and group think without true reflection is destroying the dialogue. Negative reinforcement by only hearing opinion from the biased news outlet of your choice is leaving true dialogue down the drain. Take this perspective

False. A political party unlike a race of people, has a leader who tells you what he believes. If you choose to support the ideas he puts forward that tells me a **** ton about you as a person. A political party also has a platform, which is a statement of the beliefs and policy positions which that party supports. If you agree with those positions that tells me a lot about you as a person.

For instance: Conservatives support drug testing welfare recipients because they claim they're fiscally conservative and don't want to waste money on drug users. Despite the fact that every single solitary state that has attempted to do this has ended up spending a ton of money on the tests, catching almost nobody, and still ended up having to give benefits even to the people who failed.l So if you call yourself a fiscal conservative that hates the government wasting money, yet you argue for a policy that is an obvious waste of tax payer money then you're either a moron, or you just hate poor people enough to waste money making their lives more difficult. That is a perfectly logical conclusion.

Another example: When you advocate for a multi-billion dollar wall to keep out illegal immigrants despite the fact that 70% of them don't even cross the border, ladders exist, and every shred of evidence available tells us that immigrants are net positive to the country there's only one of two logical conclusions that can be deduced. Either you're a moron, and don't understand the immigration at all. Or you're an evil person that just hates Mexican's so much that you care more about sending them a message to stay out than you do about actually improving our country.

Really! So does that mean that Supporting a healthcare bill that your congressional party leader claimed "has to be passed to see what's in it", claimed it would allow you to keep your plan, reduce premiums and deductibles and provide more choice when all evidence is to the contrary mean that you're a moron and don't understand healthcare, Or you're an evil person that hates Americans that had Insurance prior to the ACA?

What kind of reasoning is this? Because fiscal Conservatives don't want benefits to go towards drugs and therefore tried something out that ended up costing more than expected they're morons or hate the poor?

Because Conservatives feel border security and some form of Wall could stem the flow of illegal immigrants, drugs and terrorists, and they advocate legal immigration to get that net positive you speak of instead of illegals, they're morons or hate Mexicans?

They can't handle the reality that they've lived most of their life doing things a bad way, and that some punk kids came a long and out smarted them.

Please get a grip. Advocating a policy that doesn't have the desired result is not being a moron or hating a group of people. Advocating adherence to the law is not being a moron or hating a group of people.

Evaluating Conservatives in this black or white way without considering any other motive or what their argument actually is is what's moronic and hateful. I suppose saying black and white makes me a moron or a racist though too?

It pains me to see this is what it's devolved into, blanket prejudice without civility or justification.
 
I'm a Centrist. We should all be like me.

Fallacy of Neutrality. The Swiss were wrong for staying neutral during WWII. Not being capable of determining who is right and who is wrong in an argument doesn't make you a better person.
 
Fallacy of Neutrality. The Swiss were wrong for staying neutral during WWII. Not being capable of determining who is right and who is wrong in an argument doesn't make you a better person.

No one is 100% right or wrong. That's the point too few people recognize. Understanding nuance is a virtue.
 
The facts say otherwise. People throughout world history would literally kill to have an economy like hours.

If we were supporting ourselves and making good choices you might have a point, but this economy is addicted to debt and it keeps poorly distributing both wealth and capital, and the people are increasingly spiritually unwell...... some say to the point of mass mental illness (I am pretty much sold on that point because how else can we explain what is happening in Washington?)
 
Given a two party system it's largely conservatives that are in the wrong.Right now you're either with them, or against them.
Our entire system being a two-party, winner takes all system, is what leads to this. Inevitably.
If we want to change the division, you change the cause of the division. We need maybe 5-6 parties, and no winner takes all perhaps. A lot more nuanced voices rather than just sub-factions of larger, polarized parties.

However at the party level we currently do have, it would require things like compromise, embracing diversity, dynamic change to accommodate all the variety of people and positions and how it changes quickly.

If you're honest, you'll recognize that these are things that are largely anathema to conservatives, and generally associated with progressives/liberals.

So if you want reconciliation, why not adopt the behaviors that allow for reconciliation? Or change the party system in the more drastic case.

Then again, given *any* such case, if you vote a fool like Trump into the highest power in the land, there will be another fight.
 
Division, eh?

It probably would've helped if people hadn't spent 8 years slandering Obama's religious beliefs, accusing him of lying about his birthplace, saying he's racist against white people and wants to destroy America, yadda yadda.

It would've also helped if people hadn't elected a dumbass vulgarian because he pisses off "the left," and then continued to use that as their main point of praise.

It would've helped if right wing politicians hadn't spent so long trying to convince rural red America that "the left" actively hates them and wants to control every aspect of their lives.

And no, that isn't all OK because Hillary called some people deplorable.

You must be young if you forgot how Bush was treated. You act like this game started with the right. In addition to being young, you are obviously ill-informed as to who Hillary Clinton is.
 
We get to choose from all the ideas that we run across, and it is a good idea to try to run across as many ideas as you can.

Once in a blue moon someone comes up with an idea that is new enough to pass for new.

Sure, but our environment has a huge effect on that. If you had been born and raised in the Middle East, or in SE Asia, you would have vastly different values and culture. Most of us are products of our environments.
 
You have 100% choice over your ideas. Even the brainwashed can be un-brainwashed.

Ask yourself this though. Who is more likely to succeed at brainwashing people. Religious zealots who start drilling religion into their children's heads as infants or college professors who don't even get access to minds until they are almost into their 20's. Science can be double checked and confirmed. Religion cannot. If one of those is a lie which one would be most likely to get away with their lie. Scientists or Religious leaders?

I dunno...you should pretty brainwashed to me, looking at what you've posted. That aside, people are, in large part, products of their environments. You act like people can just walk up one day and completely choose to hold an opposite ideology they've held their entire life.

Let me ask you this, what's the chance of you just choosing to become a religious fundamentalist?
 
You must be young if you forgot how Bush was treated. You act like this game started with the right. In addition to being young, you are obviously ill-informed as to who Hillary Clinton is.

Smartass personal attacks aside: If you're going to play that game, you should perhaps go back further to how the GOP intentionally snarled years of a Democratic Presidency over a blowjob, all in a cynical bid to put the President in a position of deciding whether to openly admit adultery - which itself would not be a high crime and misdemeanor - in the hope that he would commit perjury.

Just how far back are you going to go to try to blame everything on the left? The Whigs? What a stupid stupid stupid game to play.





As for Bush, that's simply not comparable to the right's attacks on Obama and you know it (though you'd never admit it; narrative and agenda issues, etc). Most of the criticism was that he was just an amiable buffoon. The real focus was on the people he surrounded himself with. Cheney & Rummy, LLC. A bunch of scumbags legitimately named scumbag.

No doubt you'll feel the urge to run along and try to find a picture of a protester carrying a sign of Bush with a Hitler mustache drawn on, then pretend it represented all of "the left." Don't bother. Old hat. Saw that slimeball move on other debate boards back then.
 
Smartass personal attacks aside: If you're going to play that game, you should perhaps go back further to how the GOP intentionally snarled years of a Democratic Presidency over a blowjob, all in a cynical bid to put the President in a position of deciding whether to openly admit adultery - which itself would not be a high crime and misdemeanor - in the hope that he would commit perjury.

Just how far back are you going to go to try to blame everything on the left? The Whigs? What a stupid stupid stupid game to play.

Yes, it was stupid for you to make such a comment as the post I originally quoted from you. Glad you agree.

As for Bush, that's simply not comparable to the right's attacks on Obama and you know it (though you'd never admit it; narrative and agenda issues, etc). Most of the criticism was that he was just an amiable buffoon. The real focus was on the people he surrounded himself with. Cheney & Rummy, LLC. A bunch of scumbags legitimately named scumbag.

No doubt you'll feel the urge to run along and try to find a picture of a protester carrying a sign of Bush with a Hitler mustache drawn on, then pretend it represented all of "the left." Don't bother. Old hat. Saw that slimeball move on other debate boards back then.

Ah...so you'll excuse the actions of the left but under the same criteria you will not do so for the right. For the most part, Obama was treated with kid gloves, not that you'll ever admit that. In other words, hypocrites be hypocritical.
 
Given a two party system it's largely conservatives that are in the wrong.Right now you're either with them, or against them.
Our entire system being a two-party, winner takes all system, is what leads to this. Inevitably.
If we want to change the division, you change the cause of the division. We need maybe 5-6 parties, and no winner takes all perhaps. A lot more nuanced voices rather than just sub-factions of larger, polarized parties.

However at the party level we currently do have, it would require things like compromise, embracing diversity, dynamic change to accommodate all the variety of people and positions and how it changes quickly.

If you're honest, you'll recognize that these are things that are largely anathema to conservatives, and generally associated with progressives/liberals.

So if you want reconciliation, why not adopt the behaviors that allow for reconciliation? Or change the party system in the more drastic case.

Then again, given *any* such case, if you vote a fool like Trump into the highest power in the land, there will be another fight.

The problem with that argument is that there are tens of millions of big city lefties who have no clue who the people in the back country are, dont want to, dont want to let them speak their minds, and are pretty clear that if the hicks dont want to get with the program then they should just die...the sooner the better. These ignorant abusive people are not superior to anyone morally or otherwise, and if they were not so ignorant they would know. The fact that they claim to be tolerant and inclusive even as they practice the opposite lends humour to the sad situation, but I would rather they wised up. Making a better try at being good people would be nice as well.
 
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Smartass personal attacks aside: If you're going to play that game, you should perhaps go back further to how the GOP intentionally snarled years of a Democratic Presidency over a blowjob, all in a cynical bid to put the President in a position of deciding whether to openly admit adultery - which itself would not be a high crime and misdemeanor - in the hope that he would commit perjury.

Just how far back are you going to go to try to blame everything on the left? The Whigs? What a stupid stupid stupid game to play.





As for Bush, that's simply not comparable to the right's attacks on Obama and you know it (though you'd never admit it; narrative and agenda issues, etc). Most of the criticism was that he was just an amiable buffoon. The real focus was on the people he surrounded himself with. Cheney & Rummy, LLC. A bunch of scumbags legitimately named scumbag.

No doubt you'll feel the urge to run along and try to find a picture of a protester carrying a sign of Bush with a Hitler mustache drawn on, then pretend it represented all of "the left." Don't bother. Old hat. Saw that slimeball move on other debate boards back then.

Yes, it was stupid for you to make such a comment as the post I originally quoted from you. Glad you agree. Ah...so you'll excuse the actions of the left but under the same criteria you will not do so for the right. For the most part, Obama was treated with kid gloves, not that you'll ever admit that. In other words, hypocrites be hypocritical.



Eh; if you want to play dishonest games, play them with someone else.

Continue to blame the left for everything, right down to "divisiveness" and sit there wondering about why we're so divided. :shrug:
 
The problem with that argument is that there are tens of millions of big city lefties who have no clue who the people in the back country are, dont want to, dont want to let them speak their minds, and are pretty clear that if the hicks dont want to get with the program then they should just die...the sooner the better. These abusive people are not morally superior to anyone, and if they were not so ignorant they would know. The fact that they claim to be tolerant and inclusive even as they practice the opposite lends humour to the sad situation, but I would rather they wised up. Making a better try at being good people would be nice as well.

Sup Hawk... :)

I'm not sure Liberalism is limited to city folk...and city folk trying to silence "hicks" is not limited to Liberals....and "get with the program or die" seems to be the current SOP for both sides. Truth, right?
 
If we were supporting ourselves and making good choices you might have a point, but this economy is addicted to debt
It is a fallacy for you to assume that debt is automatically bad. People like yourself seem to view our national debt the same way you'd view a car payment or a credit card. They are very different things.

What you need to understand is that America is more like a Bank. Banks take on debt all the time voluntarily. Every time you make a deposit into your checking or savings account a bank is happily taking on debt. In fact a bank wants as much debt as it can possible get. The reason is because it takes that debt, turns around and invests it in something else that gives it a higher rate or return than what it ultimately has to pay you back. That's how banks make a profit. They want debt. America is doing something very similar. The interest rates we are paying on our debt are very low. That was particularly true during the height of the economic down turn. So long as we invest that money in our economy in such away that we are getting approximately the same rate of return or higher that debt is actually beneficial to our country. We actually make money off of it.

some say to the point of mass mental illness (I am pretty much sold on that point because how else can we explain what is happening in Washington?)

If by that you mean the election of Donald Trump then yes, I would agree his supporters are mentally ill, but not because we're making bad financial decisions because his supporters are too stupid to understand the world and how it works. Their fear of what they do not understand is what's driving them crazy.
 
You act like people can just walk up one day and completely choose to hold an opposite ideology they've held their entire life.
As I said. If you can be brainwashed then you can be unbrainwashed. It may not be easy, but if you choose to have an open mind the truth will find you. People may struggle to chose what they believe at any given moment, but they can choose to be open minded, and they can choose to educate themselves so they can better recognize the truth when they see it.

But also, stupidity isn't a defense. If you're doing something that is clearly wrong, you don't get to just say sorry, I was too stupid to know any better. It might lower your sentence if you can admit that you were foolish, but what you did was still wrong and you don't get to complain that much about how mean the people are that are trying to stop you from making a mistake.

Let me ask you this, what's the chance of you just choosing to become a religious fundamentalist?

If facts actually came forth demonstrating that religious fundamentals were right about something then the odds are high. However the odds of those facts every coming forward are next to zero because religions are based upon faith. If they had facts on their side they wouldn't need faith.
 
Sup Hawk... :)

I'm not sure Liberalism is limited to city folk...and city folk trying to silence "hicks" is not limited to Liberals....and "get with the program or die" seems to be the current SOP for both sides. Truth, right?

Hidy Ho Nate!

As this society continues to rot the cancers spread, but I say it matters who is driving it, and for that one must look to see who has the power. Study power I say. HOWEVER, in my experience conservatives have less desire to silence those who dont agree. Those on the right tend to live "you live your life and I will live mine" where as those on the left tend to go "You must agree with me or else you are defective in need of fixing" as they compound the incivility by trying to punish those who dare to give voice to ideas they dont agree with. It was not always so of course, old school liberals have always believed the opposite, but they are dying off, replaced with the ignorant and intolerant who are too ignorant to know that they are ignorant and intolerant.
 
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As I said. If you can be brainwashed then you can be unbrainwashed. It may not be easy, but if you choose to have an open mind the truth will find you. People may struggle to chose what they believe at any given moment, but they can choose to be open minded, and they can choose to educate themselves so they can better recognize the truth when they see it.

But also, stupidity isn't a defense. If you're doing something that is clearly wrong, you don't get to just say sorry, I was too stupid to know any better. It might lower your sentence if you can admit that you were foolish, but what you did was still wrong and you don't get to complain that much about how mean the people are that are trying to stop you from making a mistake.

Hmmm...interesting. It's almost as if there aren't innumerable cultures and values spread around the world, according to your position. If things were so simply true or not, right and wrong, there should be much more parity among the different cultures in our vast globe. Their very existences puts the lie to what you've just stated.

If facts actually came forth demonstrating that religious fundamentals were right about something then the odds are high. However the odds of those facts every coming forward are next to zero because religions are based upon faith. If they had facts on their side they wouldn't need faith.

You didn't answer my question. You put your own conditions on it. The question was, what's the chance of you just choosing to become a religious fundamentalist?
 
Eh; if you want to play dishonest games, play them with someone else.

Continue to blame the left for everything, right down to "divisiveness" and sit there wondering about why we're so divided. :shrug:

Oh the irony of your statement. How about you go back and reread what you wrote and then get back to me w/regard to who's pinning on one group. I merely put the lie to your narrative and it upset you.
 
So does that mean that Supporting a healthcare bill that your congressional party leader claimed "has to be passed to see what's in it", claimed it would allow you to keep your plan, reduce premiums and deductibles and provide more choice when all evidence is to the contrary mean that you're a moron and don't understand healthcare, Or you're an evil person that hates Americans that had Insurance prior to the ACA?
The evidence is not actually to the contrary, you just don't understand healthcare. By virtually all accounts the ACA is working quite well, and expanded insurance to millions of America while improve the insurance of Millions more. While some people have seen premium increases those increases are due mostly to three factors. 1.) the naturally increasing costs of healthcare which the ACA mitigated, but can't completely eliminate. 2.) the improved coverage they got under the ACA. 3.) The fact that millions of Americans chose not to sign up because they believed the bull**** propaganda of Republicans.

The fact that Republicans are incapable of replacing or even repealing the ACA today despite controlling both houses of congress and the presidency is proof how horribly mistaken you are about the ACA. You were fed a line of bull**** by Republicans for 8 long years under Obama, and now that they have to put their money where their mouth is they can't back it up.

You are wrong. It's time for you to wake up.

What kind of reasoning is this? Because fiscal Conservatives don't want benefits to go towards drugs and therefore tried something out that ended up costing more than expected they're morons or hate the poor?

You might be able to make this stupid argument if they had tried it once, and learned their lesson. But even after the obvious failures of the first handful of states that passed these idiotic laws conservatives today still keep advocating for them as if they're good ideas. That indicates that they're incapable of learning(stupid), or they just don't care(hate the poor).

Because Conservatives feel border security and some form of Wall could stem the flow of illegal immigrants, drugs and terrorists, and they advocate legal immigration to get that net positive you speak of instead of illegals, they're morons or hate Mexicans?
Yes, given the obvious fact that a Wall would not stem the flow of illegal immigrants, drugs and terrorists. Walls have existed for hundreds of years. So have ladders. About 40 years ago a Republican president demanded Russia tear down a Wall that was causing more problems than it solved, and now here we are today with Republicans in love with Russia, and building a pointless wall that will cause more problems than it solves. If that's not the definition of stupidity what is?

Please get a grip. Advocating a policy that doesn't have the desired result is not being a moron or hating a group of people.
It is when it becomes glaringly obvious to any sane rational intelligent person that the policy doesn't work, and yet you still continue to advocate it. That's the definition of stupidity. You're not learning from past experiences. You're making the same mistakes over and over again despite smarter people pointing this out to you.

Advocating adherence to the law is not being a moron or hating a group of people.
It is when the law itself makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and is designed specifically to disparage a group of people you hate.

Demanding adherence to our stupid immigration law is like demanding that we round up and arrest everyone who drank a beer under prohibition before we repealed prohibition. If the law is stupid get rid of it. Replace it with a better one, and then you can worry about enforcing it.

You'll find that if you simply replaced our immigration law with one that made more sense almost nobody would bother violating it, and you'd have a lot more support for arresting the few that did.


Evaluating Conservatives in this black or white way without considering any other motive or what their argument actually
I've given complete consideration to their motives and their arguments. Their arguments are stupid, and their motives are irrational and fear based.

It pains me to see this is what it's devolved into, blanket prejudice without civility or justification.
Prejudice indicates I judged you without listening to you. I listened to everything you said, and then formed my judgement. I also gave you a flawless justification for my judgments. It is the fact that you are either incapable of or refusing to understand them that cause me to ignore civility. I would be happy to be more civil with you allowed it to work.
 
Hidy Ho Nate!

As this society continues to rot the cancers spread, but I say it matters who is driving it, and for that one must look to see who has the power. Study power I say. HOWEVER, in my experience conservatives have less desire to silence those who dont agree. Those on the right tend to live "you live your life and I will live mine" where as those on the left tend to go "You must agree with me or else you are defective in need of fixing". It was not always so of course, old school liberals have always believed the opposite, but they are dying off, replaced with the ignorant and intolerant who are too ignorant to know that they are ignorant and intolerant.

lol...nah, man, telling people what to do is part of the norm now, regardless of political lean. All I have to say in response is "Abortion", "Gay Marriage", "Legalizing Drugs" (could go on, but those are the first ones that popped into my head) and you can see that the Right feels just as entitled as the Left in telling people how to live their lives.

I don't think you can get to the unity you're looking for without everyone standing in a room together and, regardless of lean, admitting that they've been assholes. :)
 
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