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Federal Anti-Poverty Programs Primarily Help the GOP's Base

LOL

Right. The man responsible the largest post war economic expansion in US history, is all the things the desperate liberal history rewriters claim him to be.
The benefits of that expansion went to the rich, not the working class.

There is only one person in this exchange that is showing something, and it's not what they hoped it would be.
You're showing yourself to be tragically ignorant of history.
 
Because they're not cold blooded sociopaths like the GOP.


Those Democrats probably understand that a few people cutting a bigger check doesn't work, but everyone cutting a bigger tax check does work. And your sig seemed quite appropriate.

So your wanting to pay more taxes. " but everyone cutting a bigger tax check does work".
No thanks, I pay enough.

The war on poverty is like the war on drugs. It will never end unless people change.


Thanks for not answering the question.
"So what is your solution? "
 
Social Security retirement is definitely a federal entitlement program but is not based on poverty (low income) and is (largely) based on past individual contributions. If you simply count any federal or state individual "entitlement" benefit then you may as well include those collecting veterans, unemployment insurance and civil service retirement benefits as being "on welfare" too. I do not consider benefits "earned" through past contributions of money and/or labor to be "welfare".

Neither does anyone else.
 
So your wanting to pay more taxes. " but everyone cutting a bigger tax check does work".
No thanks, I pay enough.

The war on poverty is like the war on drugs. It will never end unless people change.


Thanks for not answering the question.
"So what is your solution? "
You apparently failed to practice good reading skills. The answer to your silly question is obvious: tax the rich. And I'll throw in something else, too: Medicare For All, and a Basic Guaranteed Income.
 
Neither does anyone else.
The Future of Freedom Foundation would disagree with that "neither does anyone else" argument.

Most Americans would never consider Social Security to be welfare because they think that they paid, or are paying, into the system their whole working lives and therefore earned, or are earning, their benefits and are just receiving, or will be receiving, their contributions back with interest.

But there are several reasons that Social Security is welfare.

Some people think that Social Security isn’t welfare simply because part of the payroll tax collected under the Federal Insurance Contributions Act (FICA) is listed on pay stubs as being taken for Social Security and the other part as being taken for Medicare. That’s it. If the taxes extracted from Americans’ paychecks were called simply “payroll taxes,” then the notion that Social Security is not just another form of welfare would vanish overnight. Social Security would then be viewed as welfare for seniors, just as TANF is viewed as welfare for the poor, WIC is viewed as welfare for new mothers, and SSI is viewed as welfare for the disabled.

Social Security is welfare because there is no connection between the taxes paid and the benefits received. Take two men who are the same age and have identical incomes. One works for exactly 35 years, reaches full retirement age, and then retires. The other works for 45 years, reaches full retirement age, and then retires. Since Social Security benefits are based on the average of a worker’s 35 highest years of earnings, as related above, the benefit amount that these two men receive every month will be substantially the same. The fact that each man paid vastly different amounts into the system yet received basically the same benefits is irrefutable proof that there is no connection between Social Security taxes and benefits.

Social Security is welfare because Congress may, at will, change the Social Security benefit schedule at any time. According to Title XI, section 1104 of the Social Security Act, “The right to alter, amend, or repeal any provision of this Act is hereby reserved to Congress.” That means that Social Security taxes can be changed at any time with no change in Social Security benefits; conversely, Social Security benefits can be changed at any time with no change in Social Security taxes. According to the Social Security Administration website,

From Freedomworks, another Conservative site:
Social Security: Has Become a Welfare Program | FreedomWorks
 
You apparently failed to practice good reading skills. The answer to your silly question is obvious: tax the rich. And I'll throw in something else, too: Medicare For All, and a Basic Guaranteed Income.

I read just fine. It is you who fail to distinguish.
You do know the "rich" already pay the majority of federal income tax.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...-pay-most-income-taxes-but-enough-to-be-fair/

Then we have the 45% who pay no federal taxes. "Roughly half pay no federal income tax because they have no taxable income, and the other roughly half get enough tax breaks to erase their tax liability, explains Roberton Williams, a senior fellow at the Tax Policy Center"

Who Pays Taxes in America in 2016? | CTJReports
■ The richest one percent of Americans have 21.6 percent of total income and pay 23.6 percent of total taxes.
■ The poorest one-fifth of Americans have 3.3 percent of total income and pay 2.1 percent of total taxes.
45% of Americans pay no federal income tax - MarketWatch
 
Demand for labor is decreasing. That is a bigger issue than regulations.

While I'm not positive that is correct in net terms, the two are interconnected - regulatory costs decrease demand for labor.

Labor is emotional, so take it out and apply it to a different service, that you purchase: haircuts. You get your hair cut every two weeks, because you like to look sharp, and it's only $10 a pop at your local place. A regulatory burden on the industry then forces everyone to raise their prices, and now it is $20 a pop. You decide that you can get your hair cut every three weeks instead (a 33% reduction in demand), and perhaps look a little raggety at the end, but not enough to really make it an issue.

Would it make any sense whatsoever to say "well, it's not the regulation, it's the decrease in demand!". Of course not - the regulation is causing the decrease in demand by increasing costs.


That is the basic law of economics. The rational goal of business is inherently to maximize profit while minimizing overhead. It is a common saying that businesses aren't charities. Is it not?

Businesses aren't charities - that is correct. Their purpose is to deliver goods and services in such a way that allows them to create profit. But you are missing what I'm telling you: human capital includes knowledge, knowledge which has to be built over time and effort, and which is valuable to employers because it improves quantity and quality of production. If a business therefore wants to competitively sell goods and services in such a way as to make a profit in a marketplace where other entities are seeking to take their market share, then it wants to attract the best possible human capital.



They stay because they don't know any better.

:lol: on the contrary - masters' degrees are common, and we know exactly what we could get elsewhere, and where we could go. People accept slower promotion (or even no-promotion) and slower wage-growth because they want to stay here. :)

Automation has grown apace even when regulations and wages were rock bottom.

Automation is an alternative to labor, but it's often expensive. Automation therefore becomes more profitable the more you increase the cost of labor relative to it.

To put it simply:

Let's say I can hire 10 workers at a total labor cost of $1,000,000 a year to run my small business. I could purchase 2 machines, which would allow me to get rid of my 4 lowest income workers (total cost: 225,000), but the machines cost $1 million a piece, and are good for 8 years (annualized costs, $250,000). It would be stupid to invest in machines, because they are more expensive than labor. My demand is (10) workers and (0) machines.

Then, regulatory burdens increase my cost of labor. Now those 4 low income workers cost $275,000/year. Machines are now cheaper than labor, whereas before they were not. Now my demand is for (6) workers and (2) machines.

during the Gilded Age there were no regulations. Wages were also rock bottom. This is a fact of history.

:lol: Wages during the Industrial Age shot up, as did GDP per capita, in ways never before seen in human history. You are making the fallacy of comparing wages in the Industrial Era to today, instead of comparing them to subsistence farming, which was the previous experience for most of the population.

Global Average Per Capita Income:

fig_1_gg.jpg


Ye Olde Wikipedia:

...The Gilded Age was an era of rapid economic growth, especially in the North and West. As American wages were much higher than those in Europe, especially for skilled workers, the period saw an influx of millions of European immigrants. The rapid expansion of industrialization led to real wage growth of 60% between 1860 and 1890..

There's good reason why people left the farms to move to the factories in America in the early 20th Century, and in China today. It's because it's a better life for them.

Automation was a big thing back then - which is why the Luddites happened.

Yeah, and they, and all the Malthusians who followed since have been demonstrated to be repeatedly wrong.

Perhaps you don't understand what a "straw man" means?

It's when someone attempts to project an argument onto you that you did not make, and proceeds to attack that argument. For example, I never argued we should have no regulations, only that regulatory burdens can increase the price of labor, which reduces demand for labor, but you then started spouting off about there being "no regulation" in the Gilded Age :)

They use the term "household income" to cover that.

On the contrary, household income is precisely what I am talking about - the article you cited stuck with wages, which are individual workers.
 
Better than that I can discuss the cost of rent. A minimum wage job used to cover rent in the past. It does not do so today in any state. Rent is more important than laptops.

The rent is too damn high, eh? :)

You are aware that the "cost-of-living" =/= "rent", right? It includes all goods and services in the basket.


Housing has gone WAY UP. A single worker could afford housing back in the 1950s. That is hilariously impossible now.

Fortunately, you are incorrect to suggest that housing has somehow risen out of the ability of Americans to afford (as demonstrated, not least, by the fact that they are affording it). In fact, Americans are affording more housing than ever.

In 1960, the average size of a new home purchase was 1,200 square feet. In 2010, the average size of a new home purchase was 2,457 feet, a more than 100% increase in housing. Yet home-ownership rates (even after the 2007-2009 crash in the industry) were higher in 2010 than they were in 1960, having risen from 61.9% to 67.4%. Quite the opposite of fewer Americans being able to afford less housing, more Americans bought more (100% more) Housing.


For example, we recently completed a purchase of a 2000+ square foot home that is a beautifully renovated structure originally built in the early 1900's; multiple fireplaces, wrap-around porch, 1/3 of an acre, and walking distance to downtown and a park. We have never been anything but a single family. So.... it looks like the claim that us doing so is hilariously impossible is... hilariously wrong?
 
It's amazing how the GOP has convinced their base to vote against their own needs and interests. Poor and disenfranchised rural folk consistently vote for those that defund and strip away the services that they desperately need. ****ing weird.
So if the majority of the people getting help don't want it, why not end it. Seem like a fairly simple solution with a win/win ending.

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
 
You apparently failed to practice good reading skills. The answer to your silly question is obvious: tax the rich. And I'll throw in something else, too: Medicare For All, and a Basic Guaranteed Income.

Actually, especially if you want those latter two, you'll need to do what Europe does, and tax the low and middle class.
 
I read just fine. It is you who fail to distinguish.
You do know the "rich" already pay the majority of federal income tax.
High-income Americans pay most income taxes, but enough to be 'fair'? | Pew Research Center
Okay, and? They make a whoppingly huge amount of money. And a lot of corporations pay no income tax at all. Rich people sometimes pay less taxes than their secretaries. That has got to change. We need to eliminate tax loopholes for the rich.

Then we have the 45% who pay no federal taxes. "Roughly half pay no federal income tax because they have no taxable income, and the other roughly half get enough tax breaks to erase their tax liability, explains Roberton Williams, a senior fellow at the Tax Policy Center"

Who Pays Taxes in America in 2016? | CTJReports
■ The richest one percent of Americans have 21.6 percent of total income and pay 23.6 percent of total taxes.
■ The poorest one-fifth of Americans have 3.3 percent of total income and pay 2.1 percent of total taxes.
45% of Americans pay no federal income tax - MarketWatch
The richest one percent can survive with higher taxes.
 
The Future of Freedom Foundation would disagree with that "neither does anyone else" argument.



From Freedomworks, another Conservative site:
Social Security: Has Become a Welfare Program | FreedomWorks

good they are entitled their opinions.

SS is a paid for benefit. There is a connection. the less taxes you pay to SS the less you get when you retire. to get the maximum benefit you either have to delay your retirement or
you have to make the max payment through your working life.
 
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/02/gop-base-poverty-snap-social-security/516861/

So the very group that screams the loudest about theft and communism and socialism are (by their own definition of the words) the thieves.

Some older data also backs this up:
Map of Food-Stamp Enrollment by County (Interactive) | TIME.com

Which makes this issue of Republicans-on-welfare a long-standing issue.

Perhaps when Republicans talk about the poor lazy black welfare mooches living off the hard working white "Christian" man, they should start applying these principles to themselves in their daily lives?

Simple solution then: Let Trump be president for at least four years. Let him do virtually everything he wants. Let them pass big tax cuts for the rich. Let them repeal Obamacare. Don't obstruct. Don't resist. Then his base will turn into your base and Democrats will rule the entire country for the rest of eternity and then they will be able to do whatever they want from then on. But, you know that what you say is nothing but partisan garbage because you know that that won't happen and that's why you have to obstruct and resist.
 
The rent is too damn high, eh? :)

You are aware that the "cost-of-living" =/= "rent", right? It includes all goods and services in the basket.
Rent alone is higher than what many people earn. Your counter argument does not refute the fact that minimum wages used to cover rent, and they do not do so now. You're just dodging now.

Fortunately, you are incorrect to suggest that housing has somehow risen out of the ability of Americans to afford (as demonstrated, not least, by the fact that they are affording it). In fact, Americans are affording more housing than ever.
Bull****. You're trying to use bigger house sizes to claim an increase in homeownership rates. Your argument is criminally fraudulent.

Here is the actual truth.
https://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2015/07/28/u-s-homeownership-rate-hits-48-year-low/
 
And he did a good job of punishing the losers. The problem with Capitalism is that there must always be a bunch of losers, no matter how hard and diligently you play the game.

Sure. It is like Democracy in that way. It's the worst form of economic organization, except for all the others.


In the real world, however, Capitalism is the greatest poverty-reduction program in the history of the human race. It is possible in competition for people to lose wealth or income in capitalism, sure, but many, many, many more people gain.
 
Simple solution then: Let Trump be president for at least years. Let him do virtually everything he wants. Let them pass big tax cuts for the rich. Let them repeal Obamacare. Don't obstruct. Don't resist. Then his base will turn into your base and Democrats will rule the entire country for the rest of eternity and then they will be able to do whatever they want from then on. But, you know that what you say is nothing but partisan garbage because you know that that won't happen and that's why you have to obstruct and resist.
That's pure idiocy. Trump will destroy the country and kill countless people.

If this retarded idea of yours was such a great idea then why didn't the GOP stand aside and let Obama and the Democrats do what they wanted and enact the Public Option, gun control laws, etc.?

Sure. It is like Democracy in that way. It's the worst form of economic organization, except for all the others.


In the real world, however, Capitalism is the greatest poverty-reduction program in the history of the human race. It is possible in competition for people to lose wealth or income in capitalism, sure, but many, many, many more people gain.
Capitalism has done nothing for the world. Technology and democracy has done everything you attribute to Capitalism.
 
Okay, and? They make a whoppingly huge amount of money. And a lot of corporations pay no income tax at all. Rich people sometimes pay less taxes than their secretaries. That has got to change. We need to eliminate tax loopholes for the rich.


The richest one percent can survive with higher taxes.

their secretaries would pay the same rate on any capital gains that they have as well, this has been a well known dishonest argument from the start.
why it keeps getting repeated is beyond me.

They just simply take their wealth and go elsewhere don't believe me? just ask france and their soak the rich tax.
it didn't work out to well.
 
That's pure idiocy. Trump will destroy the country and kill countless people.

If this retarded idea of yours was such a great idea then why didn't the GOP stand aside and let Obama and the Democrats do what they wanted and enact the Public Option, gun control laws, etc.?


Capitalism has done nothing for the world. Technology has done everything you attribute to Capitalism.

capitalism has generated the most wealth for more people than any other system out there.
you really don't know what you are talking about do you?
 
That's pure idiocy. Trump will destroy the country and kill countless people.

If this retarded idea of yours was such a great idea then why didn't the GOP stand aside and let Obama and the Democrats do what they wanted and enact the Public Option, gun control laws, etc.?


Capitalism has done nothing for the world. Technology and democracy has done everything you attribute to Capitalism.

Glad you're seeing the truth and comparing yourself to the very same people you rail against.
 
their secretaries would pay the same rate on any capital gains that they have as well, this has been a well known dishonest argument from the start.
why it keeps getting repeated is beyond me.
Capital gains should be taxed at higher rates than wages. Not lower.

They just simply take their wealth and go elsewhere don't believe me? just ask france and their soak the rich tax.
it didn't work out to well.
Confiscate their money as they go. Send them off with the shirt on their back. Problem solved.
 
capitalism has generated the most wealth for more people than any other system out there.
you really don't know what you are talking about do you?
Technology did that, not Capitalism. Now you're just being silly.
 
capitalism has generated the most wealth for more people than any other system out there.
you really don't know what you are talking about do you?

Democratic socialism offer a better class of life to the middle and poor classes
 
Rent alone is higher than what many people earn. Your counter argument does not refute the fact that minimum wages used to cover rent, and they do not do so now. You're just dodging now.

Rent has always been higher than "what many people earn", particularly if you aren't comparing like rents to like incomes.

For example, if you were to take average rent prices and compare it to minimum wages, that would be a stupid comparison, because you would be comparing the cost of living a middle income lifestyle to the lowest legal wage possible. It would be like noting that the average IT Programmer cannot afford even the smallest private jet.

Bull****. You're trying to use bigger house sizes to claim an increase in homeownership rates. Your argument is criminally fraudulent.

No, I am using the increase in home ownership rates to claim an increase in homeownership rates. Homeownership in 1960 was 61.9%. In 2010, it was 67.4%. (Source: U.S. Census Bureau, Statistical Abstract of the United States, and U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics as cited in: Coppock, L. and Mateer, D. 2014. Principles of Macroeconomics. New York: W.W. Norton and Company, p 338.)


If you live in a highly-regulated city, it makes sense why you would find this information jarring, because (especially deep blue) cities often engage in a lot of activities that increase the price of housing by reducing supply. Be happy that, nation-wide, this is not the case :)


:shrug: and the rate your source cites is still higher than 1960, though less higher. Regardless, your claim that we have somehow seen a large drop in the ability of Americans to afford housing remains baseless. In fact:

1. Americans are buying more housing than ever.
2. A roughly equal amount if not more of them are doing it.
 
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