• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Trump Jr & Goldstone : Full Email Exchange

Yes, I voted for a candidate that previously was a successful TWO term GOP governor for a US state, New Mexico.

As New Mexico Governor Mr. Johnson tackled important issues by gaining cooperation from both Democrats & Republicans within the state to move New Mexico forward, in a positive direction.

Trump wouldn't know how to do that type of thing if there was a ****ing road map for such.

Thank you ...............

Yea...operating a global business is nothing like bringing parties to the table to agree to terms. :roll: Unless one of those parties is intent on not cooperating.

Why not sit back and enjoy the ride instead of being full of venom all the time?
 
Trump Jr & Goldstone : Full Email Exchange

I've made my position clear on trump so many times I think I need to put it in my sig lol.

I'm not a trump supporter. He isn't a real republican. He is an authoritarian more than republican. Which puts him as almost a polar opposite from me (I'm libertarian on the scale...if you haven't taken the test it is always good to see your left right up down position). He is also a Hillary campaign donor. That makes him even more shady in my book. Which is also quite funny to me that the other people in the republican primaries somehow didn't latch on to that like a dog on a bone.

But. Condone? Not really. But I also know that in the world of Federa politics...getting dirt on your rival is pretty much rule one of running an aggressive campaign. And it isn't illegal. Regardless of source. That is assuming nothing specic was done that is in violation of the law. So...shady? Meh. Unethical? I don't think so (didn't violate a specific rule or law or code of conduct that I'm aware of). Immoral? Probably.

That is my main issue is that the corrupt MSM is going to continue the witch hunt with the new liberal Mcarthyism (yea I know weird how much it resembles the past). And it won't matter if everything was legal. I know there is no way trump did anything Hillary and her lackeys wouldn't have done. So I'm not jumping on this hate train. It isn't logical.

What about conspiracy to violate federal statute 52 U.S. Code § 30121, which reads: " (a) Prohibition

It shall be unlawful for—
(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make—
(A)
a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;
(B)
a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party; or
(C)
an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 30104(f)(3) of this title); or
(2)
a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national.


(b) “Foreign national” defined as used in this section, the term “foreign national” means—
(1)
a foreign principal, as such term is defined by section 611(b) of title 22, except that the term “foreign national” shall not include any individual who is a citizen of the United States; or
(2)
an individual who is not a citizen of the United States or a national of the United States (as defined in section 1101(a)(22) of title 8) and who is not lawfully admitted for permanent residence, as defined by section 1101(a)(20) of title 8.


Contribution is defined as:

52 U.S. Code § 30101 - Definitions

(8)
(A) The term “contribution” includes—
(i)
any gift, subscription, loan, advance, or deposit of money or anything of value made by any person for the purpose of influencing any election for Federal office; or
(ii)
the payment by any person of compensation for the personal services of another person which are rendered to a political committee without charge for any purpose.


As an academic exercise, there are enough facts, at the moment, to satisfy each element in a conspiracy charge.

The damaging information against Clinton could arguably have "value." An argument is if the campaign would have ordinarily spent money to acquire X information, but someone else gives them this information for free, thereby saving the campaign X amount of dollars to acquire X information, then how is this not the equivalent of a contribution, the equivalent of giving the campaign money? There is no logical distinction between giving the campaign X amount of money to acquire X information and giving the campaign X information which then saves them from having to spend X amount of money to get the information.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
1) It's not different. Both are wrong.
2) Trump Jr thought it was from the government and agreed to work with them. Was it really the government is another subject.

"2) Trump Jr thought it was from the government and agreed to work with them. Was it really the government is another subject."

Be didn't agree to work with them, he agreed to hear, see or obtain "incriminating evidence" implicating Hillary.

incriminating: to accuse of or present proof of a crime.

Most seem to ignore that part in the first email.
 
Again, I'm no legal expert. However, these allegations & the exchange of mails give credibility to the collusion theory.

collusion
n. where two persons (or business entities through their officers or other employees) enter into a deceitful agreement, usually secret, to defraud and/or gain an unfair advantage over a third party, competitors, consumers or those with whom they are negotiating. Collusion can include secret price or wage fixing, secret rebates, or pretending to be independent of each other when actually conspiring together for their joint ends. It can range from small-town shopkeepers or heirs to a grandma's estate, to gigantic electronics companies or big league baseball team owners. (See: fraud)

Source

An investigation would be useful in order to prove if it was collusion or not.

Would you have Clinton investigated for the Ukraine affair ?

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2382

18 U.S. Code § 2382 - Misprision of treason

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States and having knowledge of the commission of any treason against them, conceals and does not, as soon as may be, disclose and make known the same to the President or to some judge of the United States, or to the governor or to some judge or justice of a particular State, is guilty of misprision of treason and shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than seven years, or both.
 
What does seem criminal is this part :



Why does Russia support Trump ? What is he doing for the Russian Government ? How will he pay back the help that they give him ?
I certainly don't want a president who is indebted to Putin.

The whole exchange is a gigantic flaming red flag.

It was an unsolicited remark that was not acknowledged by Don Jr.

And regardless the deal on the emails does not discuss payment or quid pro quo so there's no issue of anything criminal.
 
Re: Trump Jr & Goldstone : Full Email Exchange

What about conspiracy to violate federal statute 52 U.S. Code § 30121, which reads: " (a) Prohibition

It shall be unlawful for—
(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make—
(A)
a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;
(B)
a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party; or
(C)
an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 30104(f)(3) of this title); or
(2)
a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national.


(b) “Foreign national” defined as used in this section, the term “foreign national” means—
(1)
a foreign principal, as such term is defined by section 611(b) of title 22, except that the term “foreign national” shall not include any individual who is a citizen of the United States; or
(2)
an individual who is not a citizen of the United States or a national of the United States (as defined in section 1101(a)(22) of title 8) and who is not lawfully admitted for permanent residence, as defined by section 1101(a)(20) of title 8.


Contribution is defined as:

52 U.S. Code § 30101 - Definitions

(8)
(A) The term “contribution” includes—
(i)
any gift, subscription, loan, advance, or deposit of money or anything of value made by any person for the purpose of influencing any election for Federal office; or
(ii)
the payment by any person of compensation for the personal services of another person which are rendered to a political committee without charge for any purpose.


As an academic exercise, there are enough facts, at the moment, to satisfy each element in a conspiracy charge.

The damaging information against Clinton could arguably have "value." An argument is if the campaign would have ordinarily spent money to acquire X information, but someone else gives them this information for free, thereby saving the campaign X amount of dollars to acquire X information, then how is this not the equivalent of a contribution, the equivalent of giving the campaign money? There is no logical distinction between giving the campaign X amount of money to acquire X information and giving the campaign X information which then saves them from having to spend X amount of money to get the information.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Information does not equal a contribution. Based on the definitions you provided. It seems you are ignoring that the dictionary definition is not the same as the legal definition. They set a specific rule there.

Yes. "Anything of value." But that seems more vague. And you need to prove the "information" he received had value. And what exactly was it he was going to get?

At this point I think the left just wants us to have a bill of attainder and vote Donald guilty do they can kill him.
 
share your cites with us showing that those nations participated in the election in any manner

The same as people claim about Russia, but when it comes to the Clinton. Everyone is willing to give them a pass it seems.
 
You're openly strategizing about how to lie, deny, deflect?





Nothing Hillary did (and you haven't proven anything on that front) excuses what Trump did. At most, you're saying that Team Trump is at least as dirty as Team Hillary.

Did you think this through? Are you sure that's really the defense you want to go with?

Even if I would go with that defense, and even if it was completely true. I can already tell that you would be more than willing to let her have a pass, if it means sticking it to Trump.

But still this whole Trump Jr email "treason" claim is not, and can not be seen as such when you look at the facts. Even accredited lawyers who are openly liberal say that such a claim is false. However if you want to keep letting you're hate, and intellectual dishonesty make you're decisions for you, then go ahead.
 
Why would Trump Jr release mails possibly incriminating him ?

Because they dont.

Well, At least he did not hide the server, lose the emails, hire a tech team to wipe the server, smash the hard drives with hammers, require immunity deals for the campaign...That might look bad.
 
agreed. once he saw that a foreign government/interest reaching out to him offering to allow it to intrude in an American election, his next discussion should have been with counsel. and competent counsel would have walked him and his email to the FBI

just like nixon did not need to authorize the watergate break-in of the DNC to win the election
tRump did not need to use russia's stolen information to defeat hillary

And you're 100% sure that not one vote was swayed by anything that Russia did? That is not possible. All Putin had to do was sway 65,000 votes in 3 blue States. The same 3 States which "coincidentally" were ground zero for Putin's army of trolls pounding social media with fake news damaging to Hillary. I wonder how they knew where their propaganda would be the most useful to Trump

Russian internet trolls were being hired to pose as pro-Trump Americans - Business Insider
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom