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Trump still insists that Mexico will pay for the border wall

Ask the Spaniards what the cost benefits of their walls against immigrants seeking entry into the EU are. They're smaller, but the calculations would be useful to verify your account the great wall. ;)

And how does that apply to Mexico? You are comparing apples and oranges. Hungary built a barrier to keep out Syrian refugees and whether you agree with that decision or not, its the Hungarian government that made that decision, it wasn't imposed on them by another country.

If Trump wants to build a wall, he should be honest and say the US tax payers will have to foot the bill, because the idea that Mexico should pay for the wall has almost no support in Mexico and no one has said how you can make Mexico pay for it, if that idea is deeply unpopular in Mexico.
 
I am curious. If “make Mexico pay” is associated with trade deficit. If our ratios were to change due to policy and we had higher exports and flater on imports as part of future trade policy to the point where a trade deficit was less than the cost of the wall, would not the essence of the statement be made true? [assuming higher exports not just a massive limit on imports]

FYI. Yes I do understand a trade deficit is not always a bad thing if what we are importing in is cheaper prices etc. I am merely exploring the standard of “Mexico pay for it” can be in your mind anything less than them directly incurring the costs.
 
And how does that apply to Mexico? You are comparing apples and oranges. Hungary built a barrier to keep out Syrian refugees and whether you agree with that decision or not, its the Hungarian government that made that decision, it wasn't imposed on them by another country.

If Trump wants to build a wall, he should be honest and say the US tax payers will have to foot the bill, because the idea that Mexico should pay for the wall has almost no support in Mexico and no one has said how you can make Mexico pay for it, if that idea is deeply unpopular in Mexico.

Oh. I had just thought about the cost benefit analysis. But since you had answered in a fashion that made me think you were not much interested....
 
Oh. I had just thought about the cost benefit analysis. But since you had answered in a fashion that made me think you were not much interested....

Those are two separate issues, whether the US should build a wall and if Mexico will pay for it.

I think the wall is a foolish idea on an economic and logistics standpoint, but I think Trump should be honest with people and say the tax payers will have to pay for the wall. Hell will freeze over before Mexico pays for the wall, if the tax payers know they have to pay for the wall, they may look into it deeper to see if its a good idea.
 
Those are two separate issues, whether the US should build a wall and if Mexico will pay for it.

I think the wall is a foolish idea on an economic and logistics standpoint, but I think Trump should be honest with people and say the tax payers will have to pay for the wall. Hell will freeze over before Mexico pays for the wall, if the tax payers know they have to pay for the wall, they may look into it deeper to see if its a good idea.

True. And, if the deal proposed makes sense, why should Mexico not pay for it?
 
True. And, if the deal proposed makes sense, why should Mexico not pay for it?

The idea of Mexico paying for the wall is deeply unpopular in Mexico, what possible deal could Trump make that would make this acceptable to the Mexicans?

Just saying " well you get to keep NAFTA" is not even close to good enough incentive to change popular opinion in Mexico, because they will see that as a giant fee just to maintain a worse version of the status quo.

Americans should just accept that if they want to build a wall, they will have to pay for it. Again Hell will freeze over before Mexico agrees to pay for the wall.
 
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The idea of Mexico paying for the wall is deeply unpopular in Mexico, what possible deal could Trump make that would make this acceptable to the Mexicans?

Just saying " well you get to keep NAFTA" is not even close to good enough incentive to change popular opinion in Mexico, because they will see that as a giant fee just to maintain a worse version of the status quo.

Americans should just accept that if they want to build a wall, they will have to pay for it. Again Hell will freeze over before Mexico agrees to pay for the wall.

There are lots of that could be thrown onto the scales. How to treat illegally immigrated persons, the repatriation of payments to Mexico or how future immigration will be handled. A secure frontier is absolutely necessary for a healthy movement of people across the boarder. That could have been explained easily to the Mexican population had it not been propagandized by both sides.
 
There are lots of that could be thrown onto the scales. How to treat illegally immigrated persons, the repatriation of payments to Mexico or how future immigration will be handled. A secure frontier is absolutely necessary for a healthy movement of people across the boarder. That could have been explained easily to the Mexican population had it not been propagandized by both sides.

I don't see how any of that is enough to convince Mexicans that paying for the wall is a good idea.

The wall is unpopular enough in Mexico, any Mexican politican suggests Mexico pays for the wall is committing political suicide, Trump is extremely unpopular in Mexico, his actions are increasing Mexican nationalism in Mexico:

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.latim...g-mexico-patriotism-trump-2017-story,amp.html

Stop trying to have your cake and eat it too, Mexico is not paying for the wall, the American tax payer is. If you support the wall, just know you are paying for it. No way will Mexico, with its much smaller GDP base then the US, accept paying for the wall, Mexicans will see this as a rich country trying to impose its will on a poor country. If another country demanded America pay for something for its benefit, Americans would not be too happy, why would Mexicans be any different in this regard?

This idea that Mexico will pay for the wall is a fantasy, its time to realize that the wall is not some free thing Mexico will just give to America. Actions have consequences and one of consequence of the wall is the huge bill the US will be stuck with making it.
 
I don't see how any of that is enough to convince Mexicans that paying for the wall is a good idea.

The wall is unpopular enough in Mexico, any Mexican politican suggests Mexico pays for the wall is committing political suicide, Trump is extremely unpopular in Mexico, his actions are increasing Mexican nationalism in Mexico:

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.latim...g-mexico-patriotism-trump-2017-story,amp.html

Stop trying to have your cake and eat it too, Mexico is not paying for the wall, the American tax payer is. If you support the wall, just know you are paying for it. No way will Mexico, with its much smaller GDP base then the US, accept paying for the wall, Mexicans will see this as a rich country trying to impose its will on a poor country. If another country demanded America pay for something for its benefit, Americans would not be too happy, why would Mexicans be any different in this regard?

This idea that Mexico will pay for the wall is a fantasy, its time to realize that the wall is not some free thing Mexico will just give to America. Actions have consequences and one of consequence of the wall is the huge bill the US will be stuck with making it.

Yep. You have nicely described, why it was so abysmally stupid to whip up emotions against Trump. This is true in the US as well as in other countries around the world. It was cheap propaganda and much easier than explaining why some of Trump's ideas are fundamentally solid and the wind he is making is quite something else and should be treated as unworthy of talking about.

I don't think of politics as eating you cake and having it as much as of a process of finding a way of explaining the optimum solution, which is almost always compromise. And, if yiucede a guy like Trump a point in public, you can charge a hefty price that you don't talk about.
 
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Yep. You have nicely described, why it was so abysmally stupid to whip up emotions against Trump. This is true in the US as well as in other countries around the world. It was cheap propaganda and much easier than explaining why some of Trump's ideas are fundamentally solid and the wind he is making is quite something else and should be treated as unworthy of talking about.

I don't think of politics as eating you cake and having it as much as of a process of finding a way of explaining the optimum solution, which is almost always compromise. And, if yiucede a guy like Trump a point in public, you can charge a hefty price that you don't talk about.

Trump whips up the same nationalist sentiment in America that mirrors the nationalist sentiment we see in Mexico. Trump is pretty quick to blame other countries for America's problems.

Mexico doesn't see this as a compromise, they see this is as a demand and giving in as a surrender, Trump wants Mexico to pay billions of dollars for a wall they don't want, that is a non starter for Mexico, there is no deal Trump could make that would make this acceptable to the Mexican public.

Again, if you want the wall, accept that American tax payers will have to pay for it, stop trying shift that cost somewhere else, stop trying to pass the buck.

In Trump's fantasy land, the wall will cost the American tax payers nothing, because one day Mexico will just decide it wants to pay for the wall, in the real world, that will never and the American tax payers will have to pay for it.

So anyone who thinks Mexico will pay for the wall is doing themselves a disservice, they do not want to own up to the consequences that building this wall will have.
 
Trump whips up the same nationalist sentiment in America that mirrors the nationalist sentiment we see in Mexico. Trump is pretty quick to blame other countries for America's problems.

Mexico doesn't see this as a compromise, they see this is as a demand and giving in as a surrender, Trump wants Mexico to pay billions of dollars for a wall they don't want, that is a non starter for Mexico, there is no deal Trump could make that would make this acceptable to the Mexican public.

Again, if you want the wall, accept that American tax payers will have to pay for it, stop trying shift that cost somewhere else, stop trying to pass the buck.

In Trump's fantasy land, the wall will cost the American tax payers nothing, because one day Mexico will just decide it wants to pay for the wall, in the real world, that will never and the American tax payers will have to pay for it.

So anyone who thinks Mexico will pay for the wall is doing themselves a disservice, they do not want to own up to the consequences that building this wall will have.

No question of Trump's being polite or pleasant. But letting oneself be provoked is worse than provoking someone. That the other guy is a populist does not make the trap you entangle yourself in for following his leading you on any more pleasant.
 
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