Repealing Obamacare, i.e., ACA, without replacement?

Vern · Jul 1, 2017

fmw said:
That was funny.

I found it sad that I had to explain to you that it was a debate forum not a gossip session. Seriously, you've been at this site since 2013. How has the purpose of the forum escaped you?

Fletch · Jul 1, 2017

Vern said:
their actions clearly added to the premium hikes. You said nothing because of your partisan agenda. Why else would only be concerned about premium hikes when you thought it was democrat's fault and now magically dont care. Anyhoo, we both know nothing can be proven to you when you don't want to believe it. But as an honest and intelligent poster, I have no problem backing up my points. Not expanding Medicaid added to the cost of premiums

"A state’s failure to expand Medicaid would likely increase premiums for private health insurance premiums in the individual market, according to a new brief from the American Academy of Actuaries"

http://www.cbpp.org//sites/default/files/atoms/files/american-academy-of-actuaries-summary.pdf

And republican efforts discouraging people from signing up was to limit the risk pool and drive up costs. Trumps current threats to withhold CSR payments is adding to the cost by driving insurers out of the market and the remaining factoring in the risk of Trump withholding the payments. And of it helps your narrative if you believe premium hikes only started with Obamacare. Well the premium hikes for those lucky enough to be allowed to buy insurance anyway.

Since 2001 (to 2011), average premiums for family coverage have increased 113% (Exhibit A).[/I]

https://kaiserfamilyfoundation.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/8225.pdf

As usual, your links do not prove what you pretend they do. Premiums rose in my state despite the fact that it accepted Medicaid expansion. So your post is as it usually is--partisan crap.

oh look, you're trying to make it about me. that's a novel approach.

You seem to have trouble following along with your own posts. Let me help: my response was to your comment about me. So it was you who made it personal, not me, yet as is so often the case with you liberals ( and slightly liberal posters) honesty is not a value to you.

It'll come in handy when you want to cut and run from the facts I've posted. As far as your agenda goes, it seems to be to flail at facts that disrupts your conservative narratives. Your current narrative seems to be "Obamacare bad".

Obamacare was and is bad law. Only blind partisan hacks don't see that.

fmw · Jul 1, 2017

Vern said:
I found it sad that I had to explain to you that it was a debate forum not a gossip session. Seriously, you've been at this site since 2013. How has the purpose of the forum escaped you?

The other post was funny. This one not so much.

Nap · Jul 1, 2017

Greenbeard said:
"Repeal-and-replace" has been the GOP's position since March 2010. Trump didn't invent that. Granted, it was a lie the entire time but it's been the party line for the better part of a decade.

Had to go back and look it up because I didn't remember hearing the replace part before Trump but you are correct he wasnt the first but most of the Republicans ran on simply repealing. They tried repealing it like 70 times.

independentusa · Jul 1, 2017

Of course premiums rose in you state and others, health care costs continue to rise well beyond the average CPI. That is because of many things, some have to do with what the GOP did in the past. Like passing Medicare D without allowing the government to negotiate prices on medications like the VA does. It allowed Pharmacy companies to raise the prices of their medications to whatever they wanted. This has been one of the major factors in the rising health care costs. Health care costs push to the cost of insurance up and up. The only way to control such rises in health care costs is to control health care. Tat is why the per capita cost of health care in this country is far higher than in any other country and yet our system is rated very low. Some third world countries have higher rated systems that the USA. I constantly hear cons say we have the best health care system in the world. Theey are fools if they believe this.

trouble13 · Jul 1, 2017

independentusa said:
Of course premiums rose in you state and others, health care costs continue to rise well beyond the average CPI. That is because of many things, some have to do with what the GOP did in the past. Like passing Medicare D without allowing the government to negotiate prices on medications like the VA does. It allowed Pharmacy companies to raise the prices of their medications to whatever they wanted. This has been one of the major factors in the rising health care costs. Health care costs push to the cost of insurance up and up. The only way to control such rises in health care costs is to control health care. Tat is why the per capita cost of health care in this country is far higher than in any other country and yet our system is rated very low. Some third world countries have higher rated systems that the USA. I constantly hear cons say we have the best health care system in the world. Theey are fools if they believe this.

So what happened to ACA fixing all these holes and bending the cost curbe down? Why hasnt it done the things it was suppose to do? What went wrong?

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

independentusa · Jul 1, 2017

The ACA was an insurance plan. It attempted to keep insurance costs down by using a so called tax to force people to join, especially the young and healthy. Costs of health care though kept rising insuring that eventually even having young and healthy people having insurance wasn't enough to keep insurance rates down. Now that the Trump administration is no longer enforcing the "tax" on those who don't get health insurance, many young are dropping out causing an even steeper rise in insurance rates. TO control insurance rates you have to control cost. No matter what kind of insurance we have, unless we curb costs, insurance will soon be beyond the ability of companies to provide to their employees and rates will be far beyond what the average citizen to buy.

prometeus · Jul 1, 2017

Vern said:
their actions clearly added to the premium hikes. You said nothing because of your partisan agenda. Why else would only be concerned about premium hikes when you thought it was democrat's fault and now magically dont care. Anyhoo, we both know nothing can be proven to you when you don't want to believe it. But as an honest and intelligent poster, I have no problem backing up my points. Not expanding Medicaid added to the cost of premiums

"A state’s failure to expand Medicaid would likely increase premiums for private health insurance premiums in the individual market, according to a new brief from the American Academy of Actuaries"

http://www.cbpp.org//sites/default/files/atoms/files/american-academy-of-actuaries-summary.pdf

And republican efforts discouraging people from signing up was to limit the risk pool and drive up costs. Trumps current threats to withhold CSR payments is adding to the cost by driving insurers out of the market and the remaining factoring in the risk of Trump withholding the payments. And of it helps your narrative if you believe premium hikes only started with Obamacare. Well the premium hikes for those lucky enough to be allowed to buy insurance anyway.

Since 2001 (to 2011), average premiums for family coverage have increased 113% (Exhibit A).[/I]

https://kaiserfamilyfoundation.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/8225.pdf

oh look, you're trying to make it about me. that's a novel approach. It'll come in handy when you want to cut and run from the facts I've posted. As far as your agenda goes, it seems to be to flail at facts that disrupts your conservative narratives. Your current narrative seems to be "Obamacare bad".

Clearly you have looked into this matter quite a bit. I am wondering if you came across with any data on the profits of the heal insurance providers and how those were affected by ACA and if you would share that information?

Vern · Jul 3, 2017

Fletch said:
As usual, your links do not prove what you pretend they do. Premiums rose in my state despite the fact that it accepted Medicaid expansion. So your post is as it usually is--partisan crap.

Fletch, expanding Medicaid was only one of the actions I listed. And you ignored the 113% increase in healthcare costs over a 10 year period before Obamacare. But I see the problem. I'm making clear, honest and straightforward statements that are easily proven. You have a partisan agenda to flail. Lets review. I started with this

Vern said:
no fletch, Greenbeard, I and others were quite concerned with the hikes. So much so we wanted the republicans to stop their efforts to undermine Obamacare to increase the premiums.

you came back with

Fletch said:
Right. So it is republicans that caused the rise in premiums and deductibles. Care to prove that?

You had to respond as if I said republicans are completely responsible for the premium hikes. I said no such thing but your agenda required you to "misparaphrase" my post. So I made it clear that's not what I said.

Vern said:
their actions clearly added to the premium hikes.

Which gets to the point I made. You obediently whined about premium hikes when you thought it was a democrats fault. Now you deflect and ramble when asked why you don't care about increased costs to Americans clearly being caused by Trump and republicans. Trump and republicans actions adding to the cost of healthcare for Americans is not even arguable. Now please explain why you only care about increased costs when you think a democrat is to blame.

Vern · Jul 3, 2017

prometeus said:
Clearly you have looked into this matter quite a bit. I am wondering if you came across with any data on the profits of the heal insurance providers and how those were affected by ACA and if you would share that information?

that I haven't done but I do know that health care industry has rallied considerably the last few years.

The health care stocks, which previously enjoyed a stellar rally since early 2009 ended the year 2016 on a gloomy note, which spooked some investors. As the U.S administration changed guard, the health care sector was at the core of the issue.
In what seemed like one of the longest bull markets in recent times and often called the second largest bull market in U.S. history, the health care stocks were often seen at the front, riding the wave.

https://tradingsim.com/blog/performance-of-health-care-stocks-as-a-result-of-obamacare/

So while conservatives tout the headlines about losses on the exchanges for some ins companies, it overlooks that the rest of their business is doing better because there are fewer unpaid bills. And it overlooks the republican efforts to drive up the costs on the exchanges. One can only wonder what the costs would be if republicans put America ahead of their agenda. Increasing insurance rates for Americans wasnt just the right thing to do, it was good for business. It was also good for startups too.

Vern said:
Hey look, Obamacare is actually unleashing the American “entrepreneurial spirit”

Startups Are Making a Comeback in America
An index of startup activity surged after a steep post-recession decline

"The Kauffman Index of Startup Activity, which is an indicator of new business creation, had the biggest increase in 2015 over the past two decades"

Startups Are Making a Comeback in America - Bloomberg Business

jimbo · Jul 3, 2017

independentusa said:
You do realize that if they repeal without a replacement of any kind, over 32 million Americans will lose their health insurance. That means that 10% of the total population of the USA will lose their health insurance. Not only will that force those who continue to have health insurance rates to jump at least 25%, but will devastate the health care industry as well as the insurance industries. We could see the loss of a million jobs in those two industries alone. That doesn't include all of the jobs lost from other industries that feed off of the health care industries. Do you people who ever think beyond your, no government?

Amazing. 8 years ago we were doing just fine without Obamacare. Now if it gets repealed the sky will fall. Which is the failure and the goal of government. Create a crisis, make believe the government can fix it, make people dependent, then declare we must now do more.

Which is why spending by government will always increase.

katzgar · Jul 3, 2017

jimbo said:
Amazing. 8 years ago we were doing just fine without Obamacare. Now if it gets repealed the sky will fall. Which is the failure and the goal of government. Create a crisis, make believe the government can fix it, make people dependent, then declare we must now do more.

Which is why spending by government will always increase.

Your comment that we were doing just fine eight years ago is sadly sadly sadly totally and completely divorced from reality

Repealing Obamacare, i.e., ACA, without replacement?

Vern

back from Vegas

Fletch

fmw

Nap

independentusa

trouble13

independentusa

prometeus

Vern

back from Vegas

Vern

back from Vegas

jimbo

katzgar