Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACHA

You often hear that the number who will lose their insurance under ACHA as being between 14 and 23 million people. That is way short of the real number. The real number will be much larger because they aren't counting the number who will lose their health insurance as the ACHA cuts the largest health care insurer in the nation. The largest insurer covers 75 million people. Yes one insurer covers over 75 million Americans and it is called Medicaid. It covers even more people than Medicare by a long shot. And as this program is cut deeply over the next few years, many of those presently covered by Medicaid will of course lose their insurance, including the 63% of older people in nursing homes that are covered by Medicaid. So if you have a mother or father in a nursing home, well, you will either have to pay up abuot an average of between 6 and 7 thousand dollars a month, or take them to your home. And don't expect to get any home care to help as that too is covered by Medicaid. You are on your own. So the 14 to 23 million Americans that you know will lose their health insurance under ACHA that had it under the ACA is only the beginning. The actual number will probably be more like 50 million who will lose it in the long run.

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

I forgot to say that our health care system that is currently rated about 37th in the world, after Trumpcare will soon make us a third or fourth class country when it comes to health care.

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

And all this to pay for tax cuts to the wealthy and corporations ...

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

independentusa said:

You often hear that the number who will lose their insurance under ACHA as being between 14 and 23 million people. That is way short of the real number. The real number will be much larger because they aren't counting the number who will lose their health insurance as the ACHA cuts the largest health care insurer in the nation. The largest insurer covers 75 million people. Yes one insurer covers over 75 million Americans and it is called Medicaid. It covers even more people than Medicare by a long shot. And as this program is cut deeply over the next few years, many of those presently covered by Medicaid will of course lose their insurance, including the 63% of older people in nursing homes that are covered by Medicaid. So if you have a mother or father in a nursing home, well, you will either have to pay up abuot an average of between 6 and 7 thousand dollars a month, or take them to your home. And don't expect to get any home care to help as that too is covered by Medicaid. You are on your own. So the 14 to 23 million Americans that you know will lose their health insurance under ACHA that had it under the ACA is only the beginning. The actual number will probably be more like 50 million who will lose it in the long run.

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Show us the actual wording of the AHCA which backs up your claims. I think you are just regurgitating issued talking points and don't actually have any idea what you're talking about. I'm calling :bs

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

independentusa said:

You often hear that the number who will lose their insurance under ACHA as being between 14 and 23 million people. That is way short of the real number. The real number will be much larger because they aren't counting the number who will lose their health insurance as the ACHA cuts the largest health care insurer in the nation. The largest insurer covers 75 million people. Yes one insurer covers over 75 million Americans and it is called Medicaid. It covers even more people than Medicare by a long shot. And as this program is cut deeply over the next few years, many of those presently covered by Medicaid will of course lose their insurance, including the 63% of older people in nursing homes that are covered by Medicaid. So if you have a mother or father in a nursing home, well, you will either have to pay up abuot an average of between 6 and 7 thousand dollars a month, or take them to your home. And don't expect to get any home care to help as that too is covered by Medicaid. You are on your own. So the 14 to 23 million Americans that you know will lose their health insurance under ACHA that had it under the ACA is only the beginning. The actual number will probably be more like 50 million who will lose it in the long run.

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Now I'm going to ignore all the ACHA stuff because to be honest I am not that interested.

Instead, I am going to respond to the bolded part only. Sixty-Three percent (63%) of old people in "nursing homes." :shock:

How is this a good thing? I remember an era when people took care of their parents like their parents took care of them...in their OWN homes.

Now, people with enough money, or people who prefer to depend on Medicaid, stuff their elders away in nursing homes because it's just easier than having to deal with them at home.

No one wants to change their diapers or lift them out of bed...forgetting that's exactly what they did when you were too young to do it for yourself. You can't even think of it, it's just tooo much trouble in your busy lives.

Instead, put them in a home with other "elders" in the care of people who make crap wages and consider such "care" just a job they have to get done.

Perhaps people should stop thinking of storing their elders away, out of sight and mind except for the monthly visits to make themselves feel better.

Of course this could be a result of the "Me" mentality, single parent homes, unmarried moms and men who refuse to take responsibility for their families. :shrug:

IMO we need to start remembering they are FAMILY and should be cared for by their own families. Just saying. :coffeepap:

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

independentusa said:

You often hear that the number who will lose their insurance under ACHA as being between 14 and 23 million people. That is way short of the real number. The real number will be much larger because they aren't counting the number who will lose their health insurance as the ACHA cuts the largest health care insurer in the nation. The largest insurer covers 75 million people. Yes one insurer covers over 75 million Americans and it is called Medicaid. It covers even more people than Medicare by a long shot. And as this program is cut deeply over the next few years, many of those presently covered by Medicaid will of course lose their insurance, including the 63% of older people in nursing homes that are covered by Medicaid. So if you have a mother or father in a nursing home, well, you will either have to pay up abuot an average of between 6 and 7 thousand dollars a month, or take them to your home. And don't expect to get any home care to help as that too is covered by Medicaid. You are on your own. So the 14 to 23 million Americans that you know will lose their health insurance under ACHA that had it under the ACA is only the beginning. The actual number will probably be more like 50 million who will lose it in the long run.

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Having a government entitlement program that pays $72K to $84K annually per "older" person is obviously something that we really should fight for - we can surely just tax "the rich" a wee bit more to cover that minor expense.

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

Anyone that supports Obamacare and denegrates Trump care is a hypocrite and a partisan hack. Period.

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

independentusa said:

You often hear that the number who will lose their insurance under ACHA as being between 14 and 23 million people. That is way short of the real number. The real number will be much larger because they aren't counting the number who will lose their health insurance as the ACHA cuts the largest health care insurer in the nation. The largest insurer covers 75 million people. Yes one insurer covers over 75 million Americans and it is called Medicaid. It covers even more people than Medicare by a long shot. And as this program is cut deeply over the next few years, many of those presently covered by Medicaid will of course lose their insurance, including the 63% of older people in nursing homes that are covered by Medicaid. So if you have a mother or father in a nursing home, well, you will either have to pay up abuot an average of between 6 and 7 thousand dollars a month, or take them to your home. And don't expect to get any home care to help as that too is covered by Medicaid. You are on your own. So the 14 to 23 million Americans that you know will lose their health insurance under ACHA that had it under the ACA is only the beginning. The actual number will probably be more like 50 million who will lose it in the long run.

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If you have a copy of the new legislation proposal, it would be cool to look at. Also it would be nice to read the study based on the proposal.

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

Chomsky said:

And all this to pay for tax cuts to the wealthy and corporations ...

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I hope so. Otherwise public sector health care payments per beneficiary will have to be reduced down to levels like in the uk or france. That would be a shock. https://www.google.es/search?client...0j0i22i30k1.6449QEnY7aQ#imgrc=i_CcW-eOyN85-M:

Just think how people would feel, if we spent as little as in Canada on a beneficiary.

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

A Simple Guide To The GOP Health Care Bills | HuffPost
Here is a chart.

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

Have you ever been to a nursing home or had someone in a nursing home? If you had, you would know why you can't take care of them at home. With modern medicine older people live a lot longer than they did back when people took care of their own at home. Remember that people back when died a lot sooner. The problem is that though we live a lot longer, in our later years many people need a lot of care that you can no longer provide in a home setting. And today most families need two incomes to make ends meet. Can't do that if someone has to stay home.

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

Actually the UK and France have higher rated health care sytems than the USA.

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

independentusa said:

You often hear that the number who will lose their insurance under ACHA as being between 14 and 23 million people. That is way short of the real number. The real number will be much larger because they aren't counting the number who will lose their health insurance as the ACHA cuts the largest health care insurer in the nation. The largest insurer covers 75 million people. Yes one insurer covers over 75 million Americans and it is called Medicaid. It covers even more people than Medicare by a long shot. And as this program is cut deeply over the next few years, many of those presently covered by Medicaid will of course lose their insurance, including the 63% of older people in nursing homes that are covered by Medicaid. So if you have a mother or father in a nursing home, well, you will either have to pay up abuot an average of between 6 and 7 thousand dollars a month, or take them to your home. And don't expect to get any home care to help as that too is covered by Medicaid. You are on your own. So the 14 to 23 million Americans that you know will lose their health insurance under ACHA that had it under the ACA is only the beginning. The actual number will probably be more like 50 million who will lose it in the long run.

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The responsibility of Medicaid will be slowly transferred to the states. Stop scaring people for no reason. What did an older person do before Obama Care? I think you are confusing Medicaid with Medicare.

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

apdst said:

Anyone that supports Obamacare and denegrates Trump care is a hypocrite and a partisan hack. Period.

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Not one Republican or Democrat presidential candidate said that the ACA didn't need fixing. However, what the Republicans are providing in this repeal is clearly not the answer.....

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

Captain Adverse said:

Now I'm going to ignore all the ACHA stuff because to be honest I am not that interested.

Instead, I am going to respond to the bolded part only. Sixty-Three percent (63%) of old people in "nursing homes." :shock:

How is this a good thing? I remember an era when people took care of their parents like their parents took care of them...in their OWN homes.

Now, people with enough money, or people who prefer to depend on Medicaid, stuff their elders away in nursing homes because it's just easier than having to deal with them at home.

No one wants to change their diapers or lift them out of bed...forgetting that's exactly what they did when you were too young to do it for yourself. You can't even think of it, it's just tooo much trouble in your busy lives.

Instead, put them in a home with other "elders" in the care of people who make crap wages and consider such "care" just a job they have to get done.

Perhaps people should stop thinking of storing their elders away, out of sight and mind except for the monthly visits to make themselves feel better.

Of course this could be a result of the "Me" mentality, single parent homes, unmarried moms and men who refuse to take responsibility for their families. :shrug:

IMO we need to start remembering they are FAMILY and should be cared for by their own families. Just saying. :coffeepap:

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You remember an Era where the family dynamic was far different.
1) Women work now; you no longer have a guaranteed caretaker who is home every day in every household
2) People are getting older. It is far harder to care for a 90 year old than a 70 year old. On top of the difficulty in care for an aging population because the children are getting older who need to care for that person. That 90 year old has their 60-70 year old kids trying to care for them; the kids who in a different era would have been cared for themselves.
3) Elderly living longer means living sicker too. Medicine can take care of more conditions, but that means those people that would not be alive in a different era; now have complex medication regimen, dietary restrictions, long list of specialists they visit and procedures that get done.

Comparing the care of children to elders is apples to oranges
1) weight: caring for a 20 pound baby is easy to a 200 pound man.
2) Babies get easier as time passes. if you turn your back on a baby and they fall; you usually have an owie. Your elderly parents do not have the layers of fat to cushion those blows and the height differences mean they fall farther as well. Bones become brittle with age, and all this means far greater risk of injury
3) Emotions: Babies may be tiring, but there is excitement and good stress seeing the improvements. Elderly parents deteriorate. The stress gets worse and more depressing as the years go on. Elderly do not get younger, but older and more incapable of caring for themselves.

Nursing homes are needed because the family dynamic has evolved from yesteryear. I see new patients everyday I wish their family would send to a nursing home, because their care is not being handled at the level that takes place at a nursing home. Nursing Homes are not easy jobs. and the individuals that work there have ample opportunity to transition to hospitals. Those that stay do so despite of the crap pay and impossible nature of their work, because it is more than a job to them. These people do amazing work with their limited personnel.

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

LunaRose said:

Not one Republican or Democrat presidential candidate said that the ACA didn't need fixing. However, what the Republicans are providing in this repeal is clearly not the answer.....

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Even Obama says the ACA needs fixing. I wish congress would focus on attempting that. It would be far easier to get amendments to a bill passed (I'm sure Republicans could get democrats to actually side with them on amendments, and that can off set the tea party's guarantee No vote); than a 'Start form the ground up' health care bill. Congress was so dead set on doing away with anything Obama implemented that they let the ACA spiral out of control. Any major healthcare overhaul will be wrought with unintended consequences just given the size and complexity of healthcare. the ACHA will be no different, and if it gets passed it will need amendments to adapt to the road ahead and unforeseen consequences. Hopefully in that case whomever controls congress is willing to do bipartisan amendments than hyper partisan repeal and replace (I'm making the leap that Democrats will continue the traditional pendulum swing and regain control at some point).

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

NO, I was in health care for over forty years. Nursing homes have been making use of Medicaid for all of that time, but with the cuts made by this health care bill, they won't cover the costs in the future. Medicare only covers the first 100 days in a nursing home and only if you are getting better all of that time. Most patients are covered with Medicare for only 10-21 days. And the GOP plans on cutting Medicare as well as Medicaid, so how are the states supposed to cover any of the money cut by this congress and this bill. Most states have GOP governors and legislatures and they are cutting taxes and programs, not picking up those programs cut at the national level.

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

LunaRose said:

Not one Republican or Democrat presidential candidate said that the ACA didn't need fixing.

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The only way to fix it, is to repeal it.

However, what the Republicans are providing in this repeal is clearly not the answer.....

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The only answer, is repeal.

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

holbritter said:

The responsibility of Medicaid will be slowly transferred to the states.

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States are already responsible for Medicaid. You mean additional costs will be shifted to the states?

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

holbritter said:

The responsibility of Medicaid will be slowly transferred to the states. Stop scaring people for no reason. What did an older person do before Obama Care? I think you are confusing Medicaid with Medicare.

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Except the States do not have the money to support Medicaid and they will simply drop people as soon as the money runs out. They have no choice. Scared yet?

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

ModerateRN said:

Even Obama says the ACA needs fixing. I wish congress would focus on attempting that. It would be far easier to get amendments to a bill passed (I'm sure Republicans could get democrats to actually side with them on amendments, and that can off set the tea party's guarantee No vote); than a 'Start form the ground up' health care bill. Congress was so dead set on doing away with anything Obama implemented that they let the ACA spiral out of control. Any major healthcare overhaul will be wrought with unintended consequences just given the size and complexity of healthcare. the ACHA will be no different, and if it gets passed it will need amendments to adapt to the road ahead and unforeseen consequences. Hopefully in that case whomever controls congress is willing to do bipartisan amendments than hyper partisan repeal and replace (I'm making the leap that Democrats will continue the traditional pendulum swing and regain control at some point).

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You forget that the only "HC" criteria that Republicans care about is cutting the AHC taxes on the wealthy and corporations. That can only be done with a repeal. When you start out with nearly a trillion$ cut in revenues over a decade you are left with no choice but to cut that loss from benefits for the poor and sick, But that is not enough, you must also cut the subsidies that made insurance affordable for much of the middle class.

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

iguanaman said:

Except the States do not have the money to support Medicaid and they will simply drop people as soon as the money runs out. They have no choice. Scared yet?

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Exactly, Shifting the burden to states does not solve any of the problems facing healthcare.

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

LunaRose said:

Not one Republican or Democrat presidential candidate said that the ACA didn't need fixing. However, what the Republicans are providing in this repeal is clearly not the answer.....

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Obamacare is imploding, collapsing under its own weight. The original bill plus all the regulations written to comply with it to date compile roughly 10,535 pages and 11,588,500 words.

Up at least until President Trump took office, hundreds of more words were being added ever day. For comparison, there are roughly 12,143 English words in the King James Bible; 7,652 words in the amended Constitution.

How many people have time to read 11,588,500 words to comply with Obamacare that has pretty much failed to meet any of the promises made for it other than to increase entitlements. In addition to Obamacare reducing choices in most markets, it has significantly increased costs for most. And to that cost is the enormous cost in time, money, and resources of just complying with all the rules and regulations that is also a significant factor.

Just as our tax code is a mishmash of inexplicable complexity requiring services of tax lawyers and CPAs to decipher it--and even they don't always agree on what is in it--who thinks it should be that way?--the ACA is an incomprehensible mess of tangled 'laws' that nobody fully understands or agrees on interpretation or whether they contradict each other. Who thinks it should be that way?

This isn't something that a couple of band aids can fix.

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

AlbqOwl said:

Obamacare is imploding, collapsing under its own weight.

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This article of faith is not an argument for either the House or Senate bills. Both of which are awful.

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

AlbqOwl said:

Obamacare is imploding, collapsing under its own weight. The original bill plus all the regulations written to comply with it to date compile roughly 10,535 pages and 11,588,500 words.

Up at least until President Trump took office, hundreds of more words were being added ever day. For comparison, there are roughly 12,143 English words in the King James Bible; 7,652 words in the amended Constitution.

How many people have time to read 11,588,500 words to comply with Obamacare that has pretty much failed to meet any of the promises made for it other than to increase entitlements. In addition to Obamacare reducing choices in most markets, it has significantly increased costs for most. And to that cost is the enormous cost in time, money, and resources of just complying with all the rules and regulations that is also a significant factor.

Just as our tax code is a mishmash of inexplicable complexity requiring services of tax lawyers and CPAs to decipher it--and even they don't always agree on what is in it--who thinks it should be that way?--the ACA is an incomprehensible mess of tangled 'laws' that nobody fully understands or agrees on interpretation or whether they contradict each other. Who thinks it should be that way?

This isn't something that a couple of band aids can fix.

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There not much here I disagree with. However, our health care system before the ACA was not good and our system needed to be addressed. The ACA was not something most progressives would fully agree with back in 2010 because it is complicated and flawed but it did help millions of Americans. One can say the foundation of the ACA was laid out by conservatives such as the Heritage Group in the 1990's which used a similar plan to combat Clintons initial proposal of Universal Healthcare (which came to nothing). And then taking a lot of what was in Romney Care in Mass. From the very beginning Obama was attempting to appeal the ACA to both Repubs and Dems... Progressives want universal health care, elite Dems want more of the same of ACA just tweaked, and conservatives have no answer.

I still think the ACA can still work if Repubs and Dems work together for a solution, however that is far fetched. Repubs want a full repeal and Dems don't so we're deadlocked...


And the AHCA is a joke of an answer to this whole mess...I can't believe this is the best they can do.