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America was better off with President Obama

How was he an ideologue? What ideology was he promoting "dogmatically"?
He would have never gotten ACA passed if that were so.

I think we are using the term in differing ways...:)

Obama had personal beliefs and convictions about issues that he pursued. As such, Obama is a political "Idealogue" with an analytical foundation.

Trump is simply an opportunist with little in the way of convictions. As such, Trump is simply a political "Hack". He has no solid foundation and is thus subject to political "whims" and irrational and emotional decisions.
 
I think we are using the term in differing ways...:)

Obama had personal beliefs and convictions about issues that he pursued. As such, Obama is a political "Idealogue" with an analytical foundation.

Trump is simply an opportunist with little in the way of convictions. As such, Trump is simply a political "Hack". He has no solid foundation and is thus subject to political "whims" and irrational and emotional decisions.
I disagree in that i would call all of them opportunists and narcacists.

I think obama believes he is more married to theory, while Trump I suspect biews himself as a pragmatist. Which in reality is an ideology in itself.

While there was a view issues that obama was on right side of, for my personal beliefs. I disagreed with more of his policy than I agreed with. For me he was not the evil anti-christ that he was painted to be. I think he simply got it wrong in terms of best solution on the table.

Trump isnt the devil either. Its way too early in his administration for me to say if i agree with his stewardship or not, judgement of him will need to wait until he has actually gotten significant legislation passed. I am giving the same chance to screw the pooch as I did obama.

One thing i will say about obama is that whether you like him or despise him, he deserves credit for being effective at getting what he wanted. He was a strong domestic leader.

Trump I can not make the same claim about but in his defense I have never witnessed a more massive opposition against anyone than the one he faces. I think its so over the top that it backfires on those making it. They are giving Trump a built in excuse for being ineffective. If more seats are lost by the left and establishment gop are primaried out it, in the mid terms. It will because the voters see it as unfair, as I do.

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We traded an ideologue for a guy that has an addiction to Twitter but outside of that I don't think Trump is an idiot. He's used to doing things differently than politicians do but that doesn't make him an idiot.

I agree, Trump isn't an idiot. He had to have some smarts to become a billionaire and run the empire he has amassed. But I think he is politically tone deaf. His constant use of twitter keeps getting him in trouble with his foot in mouth disease. Trump is an egotistical opportunist who throws temper tantrums and calls folks names like a five year old whose parents failed to teach him any manners. Trump through his persona, his personality has managed to turn off almost everyone except his avid supporters.

I think most Americans would be happy with Trump doing things differently, that is if he acted presidential in doing those different things.
 
Ummm...McCain is a warmongering douchebag that only cares about defense contracts and exportation of arms. Obama was good for that because he was on the "Let's start up the new Cold War" club.

I thought Obama was soft on terrorism and wouldn't even utter the words "Islamic terror." Now, he started a new cold war?

How things change.
 
McCain denies saying American leadership better under Obama – GOPUSA

He never said it. This false story started with the Guardian.


“I never said such a thing. A thousand times I said, ‘Look at the world in 2009 and look at it today.’ Of course, I never said [that]. If I did I was joking,”

“What do you think the message is? The message is that America doesn’t want to lead,” Sen. John McCain said of Trump’s possibly damaging the United States’ “special relationship” with the U.K.

The world is “not sure of American leadership, whether it be in Siberia or whether it be in Antarctica,” he added.
“asked if America’s standing on the global stage was better under Barack Obama, McCain, a fervent critic of the previous administration’s foreign policy, responded: ‘As far as American leadership is concerned, yes.'”


Clearly, he was joking, ha ha ha.
 
I think McCain might be mistaking bombing and violating the sovereignty of other nations with being a leader of the world. Then again, he might be talking about being the world leader in violating the sovereignty of other nations.

Yeah I know right? We should just let every two bit dictator gas his people all he wants. :roll:
 
Who cares whether or not I served, and thanks for the personal attack. That's a strawman argument in this matter.

I don't give a crap if he single-handedly defeated the North Vietnamese army, he's still a douchebag and he says things that make me question his patriotism. He's a disgusting politician who'd sell his mother's jewelry for votes.

Ahh, so that's the official cult of Trump excuse for the draft dodger in chief insulting POWs? Interesting.

McCain's actions---you know, actually serving his country--- mean you that you "questioning his patriotism" is rather disgusting.
 
I thought Obama was soft on terrorism and wouldn't even utter the words "Islamic terror." Now, he started a new cold war?

How things change.

I don't know if he was soft on terrorism but he definitely helped the terrorists out. Of course, this is an entirely different thing that taking relations with Russia to new lows. Why am I not shocked you don't know the difference between the two different things?
 
Yeah I know right? We should just let every two bit dictator gas his people all he wants. :roll:

Yup. It's not our country and our morals are not their concern.
 
The murder of civillians is everyone's concern. Basic humanity demands that.

Murder according to whom? Imposing the morality of elected officals on the world is exactly the kind of behavior that should be avoided.
 
I agree, Trump isn't an idiot. He had to have some smarts to become a billionaire and run the empire he has amassed. But I think he is politically tone deaf. His constant use of twitter keeps getting him in trouble with his foot in mouth disease. Trump is an egotistical opportunist who throws temper tantrums and calls folks names like a five year old whose parents failed to teach him any manners. Trump through his persona, his personality has managed to turn off almost everyone except his avid supporters.

I think most Americans would be happy with Trump doing things differently, that is if he acted presidential in doing those different things.

I'm with you on the name calling and infantile obsession stuff. He's always presented as egocentric and annoyingly oblivious to anything going on around him that isn't him. However, he does seem to have a desire to reconfigure the federal government into a less oppressive and all encompassing entity. For that reason I'll support him.
 
Murder according to whom? Imposing the morality of elected officals on the world is exactly the kind of behavior that should be avoided.

Murder according to every standard of morality in existence. I get you don't care about war crimes, and qre an outright apologist for those who commit them, but even you shoud have figured out by now that using chemical weapons against civilians is a war crime.
 
I'm with you on the name calling and infantile obsession stuff. He's always presented as egocentric and annoyingly oblivious to anything going on around him that isn't him. However, he does seem to have a desire to reconfigure the federal government into a less oppressive and all encompassing entity. For that reason I'll support him.

I'm probably one of a very few still on the fence. I didn't like him in the primaries and didn't like him in the general. I also didn't like Hillary hence my vote for Johnson. Not necessarily for Johnson, but against both Trump and Clinton. Now Trump hasn't done anything to get me really upset or done anything to get a pat on the back from me.

I do think Trump's grating persona has turned off a lot of independents that were at one time for him. I do wish Trump would lose twitter. He says so many outrageous things via twitter. They lead me to believe he says or types on twitter whatever pops into his mind without thinking it through. Then everyone around him has to scramble to let us know what he meant. Then to make matters worse, Trump then contradicts them.

If Trump is to be successful, he needs to get back on message. During the last two weeks of the campaign, he did ditch twitter and stayed on message and that probably won him the presidency. Then he went right back to twitter. Now he's got 60% of the country against him. Trump better start doing something to win some of them back before it becomes ingrained that Trump is a dolt.
 
McCain is right, and he has the balls to say it.
 
[h=1]America was better off with President Obama[/h]
Who made that statement? Must have been the left leaning socialistic commie media, right?


C'mon folks, are you better off now under the Trump admn?
 
I'm probably one of a very few still on the fence. I didn't like him in the primaries and didn't like him in the general. I also didn't like Hillary hence my vote for Johnson. Not necessarily for Johnson, but against both Trump and Clinton. Now Trump hasn't done anything to get me really upset or done anything to get a pat on the back from me.

I do think Trump's grating persona has turned off a lot of independents that were at one time for him. I do wish Trump would lose twitter. He says so many outrageous things via twitter. They lead me to believe he says or types on twitter whatever pops into his mind without thinking it through. Then everyone around him has to scramble to let us know what he meant. Then to make matters worse, Trump then contradicts them.

If Trump is to be successful, he needs to get back on message. During the last two weeks of the campaign, he did ditch twitter and stayed on message and that probably won him the presidency. Then he went right back to twitter. Now he's got 60% of the country against him. Trump better start doing something to win some of them back before it becomes ingrained that Trump is a dolt.

He needs to insert just a touch of self deprecation into his communications. People (many more than now) will cut him a bit of a break if they believe that he can laugh at himself. We saw a hint of that with the "covfefe" thing and if he lightened up from time to time in that kind of way we'd likely see a lot more accept him.
 
McCain is right, and he has the balls to say it.


McCain is a snake in the grass from a political standpoint and generally abrasive from a personal standpoint.
 
Murder according to every standard of morality in existence. I get you don't care about war crimes, and qre an outright apologist for those who commit them, but even you shoud have figured out by now that using chemical weapons against civilians is a war crime.

You're really caught up in the declarations of an intentional body, aren't you? What the UN has declared is of no interest to me and so I don't really care what they think is and is not a war crime. That is just their morality and I may or may not agree with it. People have different morals and it really makes no sense to declare your morality is anything more than you own personal views on the world.
 
You're really caught up in the declarations of an intentional body, aren't you? What the UN has declared is of no interest to me and so I don't really care what they think is and is not a war crime. That is just their morality and I may or may not agree with it. People have different morals and it really makes no sense to declare your morality is anything more than you own personal views on the world.

No, I'm "really caught up in" not committing war crimes. And using chemical weapons on civilians is a war crime. Just because you have this fantasy that in some cultures it's okay to murder innocents, and therefore it shouldn't be a big deal, doesn't make that so.

But I'm not suprised an Imperial Japan apologist wouldn't much care about war crimes.
 
No, I'm "really caught up in" not committing war crimes. And using chemical weapons on civilians is a war crime. Just because you have this fantasy that in some cultures it's okay to murder innocents, and therefore it shouldn't be a big deal, doesn't make that so.

But I'm not suprised an Imperial Japan apologist wouldn't much care about war crimes.

Different places in the world have different ideas on the subject of murder. Not only that, but individual people in those areas don't all agree on what is and is and is not murder. For example, in the US some people consider abortion murder, while others find it perfectly acceptable within a certain time frame, for certain reasons, or for whatever reason at any time. The point is that one persons morality is just their own morality and nothing more. What you're actually doing is holding people to your standards as if they are objectively true when in reality they're not.

Anyway, war crimes are just declarations by some international body and are by all accounts meaningless since they lack enforcement powers. The US doesn't even use some formal declarations of war crimes for their actions, but instead insists to look towards their own views on things.
 
He needs to insert just a touch of self deprecation into his communications. People (many more than now) will cut him a bit of a break if they believe that he can laugh at himself. We saw a hint of that with the "covfefe" thing and if he lightened up from time to time in that kind of way we'd likely see a lot more accept him.

Reagan was great at that. Many times Reagan made himself the butt of his own jokes. Reagan also let a lot of political stuff, rhetoric just roll off his back. He saw no need to respond. He didn't let stuff like that distract him. Trump seems to let everything bother him, he is too thin skinned. He has to reply to anything said back about him, to go on the attack when just letting some of that go unanswered, letting it roll off his back, a lot of his problems would disappear or at least be no more than a day or two's story.

There's a lot he has to learn.
 
McCain is a snake in the grass from a political standpoint and generally abrasive from a personal standpoint.

He has the balls to say what is right, even if it is against the party. You hate that.
 
Reagan was great at that. Many times Reagan made himself the butt of his own jokes. Reagan also let a lot of political stuff, rhetoric just roll off his back. He saw no need to respond. He didn't let stuff like that distract him. Trump seems to let everything bother him, he is too thin skinned. He has to reply to anything said back about him, to go on the attack when just letting some of that go unanswered, letting it roll off his back, a lot of his problems would disappear or at least be no more than a day or two's story.

There's a lot he has to learn
.

71 year old dogs don't learn new tricks.
 
McCain gave us Sarah Palin...the precursor to Trump. So I wouldn't put much stock in what he says about Trump. McCain is the one responsible for opening Pandora's box that let all the right wing crazies out that gave us Trump.
 
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