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The U.S.A.: A Third Would Country In the Making

RickJames3000 said:
Our military adventurism has added massive debt to our accounts and has had very few positive effects in the regions where we have directed our efforts.
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Well, the ME turned to crap under the last administration, NK turned to crap under the last administration. Any productive China or Russia diplomacy turned to crap under the last administration, but hey, we made a deal with the devil, Iran, the biggest sponsor of terrorism on the planet and then sent them cash to continue doing so. The lack of actions is glaring and is the ember of those ( “few positive effects” ) you highlight.

Again what bubble do you live in, your way of life and freedom to express your opinion is only afforded to you by the US strengths and that is not the unicorn milk and kitten kisses you wish to present, sorry to burst your bubble.
 
woodsman said:
Well, the ME turned to crap under the last administration, NK turned to crap under the last administration. Any productive China or Russia diplomacy turned to crap under the last administration, but hey, we made a deal with the devil, Iran, the biggest sponsor of terrorism on the planet and then sent them cash to continue doing so. The lack of actions is glaring and is the ember of those ( “few positive effects” ) you highlight.

Again what bubble do you live in, your way of life and freedom to express your opinion is only afforded to you by the US strengths and that is not the unicorn milk and kitten kisses you wish to present, sorry to burst your bubble.
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There's not a single thing you've written that is not partisan invective and/or nonsensical BS.

You're living in a fantasy land, as evidenced by your obsessions with "unicorn milk" and "kitten kisses".
Open your eyes and leave your house... the world is a much more complex place then you have ever imagined!
 
woodsman said:
Job growth over the last eight years was heavily tilted towards lower paying service industry jobs. One could easily argue that over regulation and an almost purposeful effort to halt any manufacturing growth and reinvestment was a very big factor, The (D) side owns that in my opinion.
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I stopped reading right there. I was born in upstate NY, manufacturing has been moving out for DECADES. Not just the last 8 years. It's got nothing to do with the last 8 years, and BOTH parties are to blame for manufacturing going overseas. IBM, GE, Ford, etc..... The list is long and has been moving out since the 70's. Your opinion is just a weak jab at Obama.

Very weak.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
I stopped reading right there. I was born in upstate NY, manufacturing has been moving out for DECADES. Not just the last 8 years. It's got nothing to do with the last 8 years, and BOTH parties are to blame for manufacturing going overseas. IBM, GE, Ford, etc..... The list is long and has been moving out since the 70's. Your opinion is just a weak jab at Obama.

Very weak.
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So, over regulation and taxation had nothing to do with it? Funny how that is turning around now with less taxation and regulation in states that want business to thrive.

PS: are you surprised that manufacturing moved out of NY? It’s comical that you don’t get why.

PS: please don’t be so cowardly with cutting up my posts, If you would like to highlight a section, do so, if not it only shows you want to avoid the other text.
 
woodsman said:
Well, the ME turned to crap under the last administration, NK turned to crap under the last administration.
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How quaintly laughable and historically illiterate and revisionist. Both the ME and KN were already crap, long before the last administration.
Any productive China or Russia diplomacy turned to crap under the last administration, but hey, we made a deal with the devil, Iran, the biggest sponsor of terrorism on the planet and then sent them cash to continue doing so. The lack of actions is glaring and is the ember of those ( “few positive effects” ) you highlight.
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Wrong, and again, laughably so. https://www.brookings.edu/blog/orde.../obamas-china-and-asia-policy-a-solid-double/
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/asia/obama-and-asia
Again what bubble do you live in, your way of life and freedom to express your opinion is only afforded to you by the US strengths and that is not the unicorn milk and kitten kisses you wish to present, sorry to burst your bubble.
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What delicious and unintentional irony. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
 
RickJames3000 said:
There's not a single thing you've written that is not partisan invective and/or nonsensical BS.

You're living in a fantasy land, as evidenced by your obsessions with "unicorn milk" and "kitten kisses".
Open your eyes and leave your house... the world is a much more complex place then you have ever imagined!
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Actually, you wouldn’t know an independent non parisian view on politics if you tried, tried really hard. I use the terms “kitten kisses and unicorn milk” purposely, I must make it simple for liberal lunatics and right nut-wing nut chases to understand.
 
woodsman said:
So, over regulation and taxation had nothing to do with it? Funny how that is turning around now with less taxation and regulation in states that want business to thrive.

PS: are you surprised that manufacturing moved out of NY? It’s comical that you don’t get why.

PS: please don’t be so cowardly with cutting up my posts, If you would like to highlight a section, do so, if not it only shows you want to avoid the other text.
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Manufacturing has moved out of the US for DECADES, and moved out all over the US. Since the 90's IBM has moved over 200,000 jobs out of the US, LOOOOOONG before Obama. Why? They pay no Fed income tax(BTW GE is another company that famously pays no Fed taxes, yet they've moved almost all their manufacturing overseas), BUT IBM can pay a programmer in India $7,000 a year compared to $70,000 a year here. THAT'S why they moved.

Anyway I pointed out NY, because I live in NY. You're letting your rabid partisan politics do your thinking for you. And because of that as Tanngrisnir pointed out, you have no idea what you are talking about.

he ME turned to crap under the last administration, NK turned to crap under the last administration.
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The ME turned to crap under Obama?? lol.. You also have no clue about history.
 
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DamnYankee said:
Ah, you meant distributed, not distrusted.

Yes, the top gets richer. So what? That doesn't mean money is scarce. That means the rich are better at wealth accumulation. Why do some middle class people grow wealthy? I was a poor kid growing up. I applied myself, worked hard, remained focused on my goals, and grew wealthier. How did that happen if the rich have ALL the money?
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It's still possible to enter the middle class through hard work and being focused on goals. It's more difficult than it used to be, to be sure, and does require a bit of luck as well, but it is possible. The thing is, real wealth, the billionaire class of wealth, isn't accumulated in that way. Most of the oligarchy have ridden the wave of money = power and power = money. It's a feedback loop that benefits only a very few who have real wealth.
 
woodsman said:
Actually, you wouldn’t know an independent non parisian view on politics if you tried, tried really hard. I use the terms “kitten kisses and unicorn milk” purposely, I must make it simple for liberal lunatics and right nut-wing nut chases to understand.
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It's actually good that you use those words, because now I can think of children's books rather than that Kevin Bacon movie I thought you named yourself after!
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
Yep, seriously. The Republican answer for EVERYTHING the past 30 years is 'cut taxes on the rich', which is a big reason for the shrinking MC and wealth inequality. So how anyone can vote Republican, defend the cut taxes on the rich Republican agenda and then also support billionaire Republican Trump and his Admin's billionaires boys club is mind boggling.
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How does that work exactly? How is allowing the rich to keep more of their money somehow lead to everyone else becoming poorer?
 
woodsman said:
Well, the ME turned to crap under the last administration, NK turned to crap under the last administration. Any productive China or Russia diplomacy turned to crap under the last administration, but hey, we made a deal with the devil, Iran, the biggest sponsor of terrorism on the planet and then sent them cash to continue doing so. The lack of actions is glaring and is the ember of those ( “few positive effects” ) you highlight.

Again what bubble do you live in, your way of life and freedom to express your opinion is only afforded to you by the US strengths and that is not the unicorn milk and kitten kisses you wish to present, sorry to burst your bubble.
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This is all factually incorrect.:doh
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
Admire success all you want. But then don't complain about the 'wealth inequality'.

I have NOTHING against people who make money. God Bless them. But this BS that every economic decision and problem can be solved by 'cutting taxes' is nonsense. That's been shown to not work.

People can't whine and bitch about the 'elite' but then vote Republican, that makes no sense. The Republicans have been protecting and increasing the elite class in this country for decades.
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Both parties do favors for the wealthy, you know. People might not realize this, but regulations, subsidies, and for that matter research done by the government are often done to warp markets towards the favor of certain parties.
 
Henrin said:
Both parties do favors for the wealthy, you know. People might not realize this, but regulations, subsidies, and for that matter research done by the government are often done to warp markets towards the favor of certain parties.
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I agree BOTH are to blame. But don't pretend that the GOP agenda for the past 30 years of cutting taxes for the rich isn't a BIG reason for the 'elitists' class becoming bigger and bigger and the growing wealth inequality.
 
DamnYankee said:
Anything produced generates wealth. No matter how you want to look at it. See, you are choosing to look negatively at wealth as being scarce when in fact it is abundant as new wealth is generated on a daily basis.
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If there is a child whose family has no money to feed him, or educate him, and there are social safety nets to allow him to get decent nutrition and an education, do you see how that might generate wealth in a way that leaving him to starve on the street might not?

As an example, take Ben Carson, our current secretary of Housing and Urban Development. He is a retired pioneering neurosurgeon and full professor of neurosurgery from one of the nation's premiere and most prestigious medical institutions, The Johns Hopkins University Hospital. As a child, he was one of two boys being raised by an illiterate single woman who made a living for her family as a housemaid. The family was on food stamps and living in the projects. He went to the public schools of the City of Detroit. He wasn't doing well initially, until a vision screening offered by the school system found that he was nearsighted and needed glasses. The glasses were given to him free of charge through a government sponsored program. Then he started to take off in school. When little Ben was only 10 years old, his mom developed profound clinical depression due to the difficulties of her life, and began contemplating suicide. Fortunately, she sought care at a county-sponsored mental health clinic, and through counseling and medication, she recovered and was able to return to take care of her two young boys.

Ben graduated from High School, and studied at the University of Michigan, subsidized by the people of the great state of Michigan. Of course, being a Republican hypocrite, he likes to think he did it all himself, and now wants to cut all those programs to other poor children who were in his place. He thinks they should stop being lazy and learn to do it all by themselves. He thinks they will get lazy if they have the same safety nets and support systems that he had.

But do you see why that would be a mistake? Do you see how it would have impoverished not just Ben and his family, but all of us if he did not have those opportunities? Do you really think it's OK if someone went back in time, and cut all those support systems to little Ben and told him they would make him lazy, and that he should learn to do it all himself?
 
Henrin said:
How does that work exactly? How is allowing the rich to keep more of their money somehow lead to everyone else becoming poorer?
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It cuts into MC programs and services. It increases their local and State taxes.

I don't want the rich to be paying 80% tax rate. But don't give me this crap that everytime we cut their taxes it's 'good for the economy' and it 'creates jobs'. That's BS. The GOP answer for EVERYTHING the past 30 years is cut taxes for the rich. And it really has been shown to be a failure. People who STILL spew that GOP agenda but then say they voted for Trump because he's an 'anti-elitist' are the biggest hypocrites in the world.

Look at Louisiana and Kansas for a smaller version of trickle down not working.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
How quaintly laughable and historically illiterate and revisionist. Both the ME and KN were already crap, long before the last administration.

Wrong, and again, laughably so. https://www.brookings.edu/blog/orde.../obamas-china-and-asia-policy-a-solid-double/
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/asia/obama-and-asia

What delicious and unintentional irony. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
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Yup, let’s ignore the death toll and exodus from and in the ME over the last eight years. Yup, let’s celebrate the non action with that as we do with NK because that’s what we have always done with them.

Ask yourself, and you must admit, things are a mess and it sure isn’t the fault of the administration that has held office for seven months.

PS: shove the bias link, not interested
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
It cuts into MC programs and services. It increases their local and State taxes.
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MC programs? Ummm...this is probably going to make me look dumb, but I don't know what that means. Anyway, cutting government programs is only removing wealth from the economy that was created by the government. If anything it gives you a better picture of what the economy is actually doing on it's own. As for taxes, yes, the government could decide to get taxes from other groups to make the difference.

I don't want the rich to be paying 80% tax rate. But don't give me this crap that everytime we cut their taxes it's 'good for the economy' and it 'creates jobs'. That's BS. The GOP answer for EVERYTHING the past 30 years is cut taxes for the rich. And it really has been shown to be a failure. People who STILL spew that GOP agenda but then say they voted for Trump because he's an 'anti-elitist' are the biggest hypocrites in the world.
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Cutting government programs that directly influence the economy will have negative effect on the economy. Cutting taxes that pay for those programs may or may not since the government could just go more in debt to make up the difference.
 
woodsman said:
Yup, let’s ignore the death toll and exodus from and in the ME over the last eight years.
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LOL! Let's whistle past that graveyard of how there came to be so many refugees and death in the first place!
Yup, let’s celebrate the non action with that as we do with NK because that’s what we have always done with them.
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No, that's not all we have always done with them. Things were far better before Bush screwed up and let them get nukes. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...tory-lesson-on-the-north-korean-nuclear-deal/
Ask yourself, and you must admit, things are a mess and it sure isn’t the fault of the administration that has held office for seven months.
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I never claimed it was. The only thing I did was shoot down your bull**** claim and watch you sputter with no relevant response.
PS: shove the bias link, not interested
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Sorry you have to run from your claim of 'bias' w/out making any rational case for it.

Same old, same old.

You have no idea what you're talking about.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
Manufacturing has moved out of the US for DECADES, and moved out all over the US. Since the 90's IBM has moved over 200,000 jobs out of the US, LOOOOOONG before Obama. Why? They pay no Fed income tax(BTW GE is another company that famously pays no Fed taxes, yet they've moved almost all their manufacturing overseas), BUT IBM can pay a programmer in India $7,000 a year compared to $70,000 a year here. THAT'S why they moved.

Anyway I pointed out NY, because I live in NY. You're letting your rabid partisan politics do your thinking for you. And because of that as Tanngrisnir pointed out, you have no idea what you are talking about.



The ME turned to crap under Obama?? lol.. You also have no clue about history.
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Yeah, manufacturing began to leave around the late 1970s or so. Some cities failed to adapt over time fast enough. Cities like Gary, Indiana and Detroit took particularly hard hits on the chin. Gary I don't believe ever recovered. But much the same happened throughout the Northeastern industrial cities too.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
Yep, seriously. The Republican answer for EVERYTHING the past 30 years is 'cut taxes on the rich', which is a big reason for the shrinking MC and wealth inequality. So how anyone can vote Republican, defend the cut taxes on the rich Republican agenda and then also support billionaire Republican Trump and his Admin's billionaires boys club is mind boggling.
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Ironic, the majority of Trump supporters are the lower educated, blue collar type folks who are mesmerized by anything he says. And yet these are the guys who are being screwed.
 
Glowpun said:
Ironic, the majority of Trump supporters are the lower educated, blue collar type folks who are mesmerized by anything he says. And yet these are the guys who are being screwed.
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It was Obama who basically said screw the Bible thumping gun clingers. Otoh, Trump is promising them jobs, and looking at some of the campaign promised he kept thus far, it seems he is at least trying. If he will actually be successful, that remains to be seen. It may depend on the people's representatives working together for the common good instead of looking out for themselves.
It is one thing to be rich, sitting on the high horse looking down on the lower class, keeping them dependent or making them even more dependent whenever it suits some partisan goal, it is another to be rich and helping the jobless to make a living, helping people to better themselves and be successful, even if they are benefiting from that in the long run.
Too many elitist wealthy hypocrites give nothing but lip service, and even those who aren't rich thump their noses at the lower class, depending on the lower class.
Inner city dem voters must be helped, southern rep voters are too dumb and stupid and are good for joke.
 
Glowpun said:
Ironic, the majority of Trump supporters are the lower educated, blue collar type folks who are mesmerized by anything he says. And yet these are the guys who are being screwed.
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Yep, that is 1 of the most confusing things about the modern Republican voter. How time after time they willing vote against their own financial interest and cut their own throats.

The blue collar people swear up and down the voted for Trump because they were tired of the establishment GOP and Dems kissing the asses of the rich, but they STILL defend and 100% agree with the tired old establishment GOP 'cut taxes for the rich' agenda. Until they wake up nothing will change for the better for the American Middle Class.
 
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