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Meet the all-star legal team who may take down Trump

Cardinal

Cardinal

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In a spartan office at the Justice Department, a team of experienced prosecutors is conducting a rapidly expanding probe into the Trump campaign’s possible ties to Russia — and into whether President Donald Trump himself may be guilty of obstruction of justice.

Led by special counsel Robert Mueller, a former FBI director, the team includes heavy hitters like Michael Dreeben, an expert on criminal law who has argued more than 100 cases in front of the Supreme Court, and Andrew Weissmann, a seasoned prosecutor who’s spent his career going after organized crime.

Adding to the firepower are James Quarles, a former assistant special prosecutor for the Watergate investigation; Jeannie Rhee, a former senior adviser to former Attorney General Eric Holder and a white-collar crime specialist; and Aaron Zebley, a cybersecurity expert who spent decades in the FBI before joining a private practice.

The appointments come amid growing signs that Trump himself is in Mueller’s crosshairs: On Tuesday night, the Washington Post reported that the special counsel was directly investigating whether the president’s decision to fire former FBI Director James Comey was an effort to obstruct justice.
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Trump’s team, by contrast, is led by Marc Kasowitz, a Wall Street lawyer with minimal experience in federal investigations who burst onto the national scene with a typo-ridden statement defending the president. His top two partners so far, Michael Bowe and Jay Sekulow, are known more for their time on TV than their time in the courtroom, and don’t have anywhere near the background Mueller’s team boasts to take on this challenge.
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https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...ial&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=1497538438

I admit to feeling uncomfortable with these stories coming out. If I were a recently elected President with no government experience, no understanding of Democratic institutions or principles, no understanding of the relationship between the Executive branch and all other branches, a need to protect myself in the short term to the exclusion of all long term ramifications, little or no impulse control and a compulsive need to make my fan base happy, I would fire Mueller right...the hell...now.

The fact that Republican congressmen are calling such a move "disastrous" strongly suggests they're aware the possibility he may go through with firing Mueller is a very real world scenario.
 
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Thread: Meet the all-star legal team who may take down Trump
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You understand that I would have been more impressed if this had said:

Thread: Meet the all-star legal team who will find the truth
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????
 
Cardinal said:
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...ial&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=1497538438

I admit to feeling uncomfortable with these stories coming out. If I were a recently elected President with no government experience, no understanding of Democratic institutions or principles, no understanding of the relationship between the Executive branch and all other branches, a need to protect myself in the short term to the exclusion of all long term ramifications, little or no impulse control and a compulsive need to make my fan base happy, I would fire Mueller right...the hell...now.

The fact that Republican congressmen are calling such a move "disastrous" strongly suggests they're aware the possibility he may go through with firing Mueller is a very real world scenario.
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Trump can only do this stuff, because he knows or thinks he can get away with it. He faces a GOP Congress that will make a deal with the Devil if it passes their agenda. That's been their consistent M.O.

Firing Mueller would seem to be a bridge too far, but I've said that about Trump and the GOP and their voters before. I'll never bet against how far and low this GOP Congress will go.

For reference, here's Paul Ryan after the Comey testimony claiming Trump should be given passes because he's 'new and naive'. It's pure rationalized propaganda:


 
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Chomsky said:
Trump can only do this stuff, because he knows or thinks he can get away with it. He faces a GOP Congress that will make a deal with the Devil if it passes their agenda. That's been their consistent M.O.

Firing Mueller would seem to be a bridge to far, but I've said that about Trump and the GOP and they're voters before. I'll never bet against how far and low this GOP Congress will go.

For reference, here's Paul Ryan after the Comey testimony claiming Trump should be given passes because he's 'new and naive'. It's pure rationalized propaganda:


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Ryan gave a pretty lame excuse for Trump.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
You understand that I would have been more impressed if this had said:

????
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I think most people here are able to look at the article and piece together the fact that while a case of extraordinary severity is building around him, Trump is assembling extremely inexperienced people while Mueller is putting together a team of people who really, really know what they're doing. The possible reasons for this seem straightforward:

a)Trump is demonstrating an epic degree of hubris.
b)He doesn't understand the gravity of the situation.
c)He's grown so used to hiring slobbering yes-men he has no idea how to find competent people.
d)He does want competent lawyers, but those people are well aware that he's toxic to their careers.

My bet is on c) and d).
 
Chomsky said:
Trump can only do this stuff, because he knows or thinks he can get away with it. He faces a GOP Congress that will make a deal with the Devil if it passes their agenda. That's been their consistent M.O.

Firing Mueller would seem to be a bridge too far, but I've said that about Trump and the GOP and they're voters before. I'll never bet against how far and low this GOP Congress will go.

For reference, here's Paul Ryan after the Comey testimony claiming Trump should be given passes because he's 'new and naive'. It's pure rationalized propaganda:


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Seems like you and me need to come up with a bet on if enough R's pull off to get the impeachment done.....
 
Cardinal said:
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...ial&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=1497538438

I admit to feeling uncomfortable with these stories coming out. If I were a recently elected President with no government experience, no understanding of Democratic institutions or principles, no understanding of the relationship between the Executive branch and all other branches, a need to protect myself in the short term to the exclusion of all long term ramifications, little or no impulse control and a compulsive need to make my fan base happy, I would fire Mueller right...the hell...now.

The fact that Republican congressmen are calling such a move "disastrous" strongly suggests they're aware the possibility he may go through with firing Mueller is a very real world scenario.
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You are absolutely right. It is very easily possible that the opening of the new investigation and its leaking to the press is directly to do with protecting Mueller's job. At least it is a plausible motive and will taint the legitimacy of the investigation. Believing this would usually have strained one's imagination, but given the hysteria we have been seeing, it would be hard to ignore the probability.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Seems like you and me need to come up with a bet on if enough R's pull off to get the impeachment done.....
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I wouldn't even know which side of that bet to take, but right now I'm leaning pretty much to "no impeachment".

Problem is:

Trump is so dayem erratic, arrogant, narcissistic, and entitled. I wouldn't put it past him to obstruct, or otherwise abuse the Office. So that's what makes it so hard to put odds up.
 
Chomsky said:
Trump can only do this stuff, because he knows or thinks he can get away with it. He faces a GOP Congress that will make a deal with the Devil if it passes their agenda. That's been their consistent M.O.

Firing Mueller would seem to be a bridge too far, but I've said that about Trump and the GOP and they're voters before. I'll never bet against how far and low this GOP Congress will go.

For reference, here's Paul Ryan after the Comey testimony claiming Trump should be given passes because he's 'new and naive'. It's pure rationalized propaganda:


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I don't totally agree there. I think that Trump would be deposed, if impeachable behavior can be proven. He doesn't have the network and backing in his party that Clinton had and so lacks the support to keep him on the job. But so far nothing really impeachable has turned up.

At the moment, however, I don't really think that Trump is the story. The story is that Mueller or someone on his team leaked the story, when it was being discussed that he might be fired. Firing him now is much more difficult. Now there is a difference between this being a defensive move or just happenstance. But the existence of a motive puts the investigation under suspicion for anyone that has been following how the hysteria has grown.
 
Cardinal said:
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...ial&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=1497538438

I admit to feeling uncomfortable with these stories coming out. If I were a recently elected President with no government experience, no understanding of Democratic institutions or principles, no understanding of the relationship between the Executive branch and all other branches, a need to protect myself in the short term to the exclusion of all long term ramifications, little or no impulse control and a compulsive need to make my fan base happy, I would fire Mueller right...the hell...now.

The fact that Republican congressmen are calling such a move "disastrous" strongly suggests they're aware the possibility he may go through with firing Mueller is a very real world scenario.
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To say Jay Sekulow is "known more for his time on TV than his time in the courtroom", is to be either supremely ignorant, or a liar.
Which do you suppose it is?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Sekulow
 
Did they mention how many donated the Max to the DNC and the one who worked for the Clinton foundation and represented Hillary in her email investigation?

Sounds fair.
 
The DNC is ordering their minions to bring everything back to "The Russians!!!" and distract everyone from the fact that a liberal tried to assassinate a group of Republicans. This is the third or fourth thread started on this forum making an announcement of the Special Prosecutor Team after the assassination attempt.
 
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joG said:
You are absolutely right. It is very easily possible that the opening of the new investigation and its leaking to the press is directly to do with protecting Mueller's job. At least it is a plausible motive and will taint the legitimacy of the investigation. Believing this would usually have strained one's imagination, but given the hysteria we have been seeing, it would be hard to ignore the probability.
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In considering removing Mueller, Trump is playing an amazingly high stakes game here. Phenomenally high stakes!

It really makes no sense, unless:

1] Trump really is dirty.

2] Trump believes Mueller, the Dems, the media, et al, will manufacture dirt for him.

My biggest suspicion here is a hybrid of #1, above. Just as in his decision to not release his tax returns, I believe Trump has acted through much of his life in the grey Netherworld of the blurred lines between legality and illegality, as some - if not many - with access to extreme power and wealth sometimes do. And he knows in his vast body of dealings there's something he will be hung on. Even if he can't recall doing something spectacularly dastardly.

But there is some underlying reason he seems willing to risk everything, lately. It's greatly perplexing, and I'm dying to know!
 
Chomsky said:
In considering removing Mueller, Trump is playing an amazingly high stakes game here. Phenomenally high stakes!

It really makes no sense, unless:

1] Trump really is dirty.

2] Trump believes Mueller, the Dems, the media, et al, will manufacture dirt for him.

My biggest suspicion here is a hybrid of #1, above. Just as in his decision to not release his tax returns, I believe Trump has acted through much of his life in the grey Netherworld of the blurred lines between legality and illegality, as some - if not many - with access to extreme power and wealth sometimes do. And he knows in his vast body of dealings there's something he will be hung on. Even if he can't recall doing something spectacularly dastardly.

But there is some underlying reason he seems willing to risk everything, lately. It's greatly perplexing, and I'm dying to know!
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If Trump knows what is good for him, he won't fire Mueller. That would be just about the dumbest thing he could do in this situation.
 
Cardinal said:
I admit to feeling uncomfortable with these stories coming out. If I were a recently elected President with no government experience, no understanding of Democratic institutions or principles, no understanding of the relationship between the Executive branch and all other branches...
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That's a pretty pro-authoritarian, pro-aristocratic post. Why are American career politicians in political office, retaining power, longer than Putin in Russia?

When the flip is Maxine Waters going to ever get out of office anyways? I'm pretty sure Paul Ryan is going to stay in some political office until he looks as old as McCain. I love Hillary was in political office, political power, since like forever. Until she lost to Trump.

You pro-authoritarian post also logically indicates almost every US citizens is too much a dummy about "how the government works" to vote. Or rather whether they are Democrats or Republicans they are too dumb to know jack about how a nation ought run and can only be led by their nobles seated on thrones who have worked in government since forever.

I hate to tell you... but the US Government does not operate as nobly as you ignorantly believe. It's an institution of gutter corruption and an institution where the career politicians have established a culture that protects both their careers and the culture of corruption in which they are influence by money. Who holds the money runs the country. And it sure wasn't Bush Jr or Obama. In fact, I would say the Israelis, the citizens of Israel in fact have more control over the US Government than Joe and Jane American voters. American bankers. Weapons industries. Oil. Big institutions with money all run the US Government. Staying in US political office a hundreds years doesn't change that.
 
I want Trump to Fall ... HARD ;)

... and his Big Ass Mouth will Guarantee it.
 
Cardinal said:
I think most people here are able to look at the article and piece together the fact that while a case of extraordinary severity is building around him, Trump is assembling extremely inexperienced people while Mueller is putting together a team of people who really, really know what they're doing. The possible reasons for this seem straightforward:

a)Trump is demonstrating an epic degree of hubris.
b)He doesn't understand the gravity of the situation.
c)He's grown so used to hiring slobbering yes-men he has no idea how to find competent people.
d)He does want competent lawyers, but those people are well aware that he's toxic to their careers.

My bet is on c) and d).
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According to you he hired the wrong photographer to photograph his wife. I would stick to something you know. The people you talk about are all aligned with Clinton or Obama. That alone disqualifies them, and being Comey's BF does not help either.
 
Chomsky said:
Trump can only do this stuff, because he knows or thinks he can get away with it. He faces a GOP Congress that will make a deal with the Devil if it passes their agenda. That's been their consistent M.O.

Firing Mueller would seem to be a bridge too far, but I've said that about Trump and the GOP and their voters before. I'll never bet against how far and low this GOP Congress will go.

For reference, here's Paul Ryan after the Comey testimony claiming Trump should be given passes because he's 'new and naive'. It's pure rationalized propaganda:


Click to expand...


Trump was elected because the people are tired of the politically correct puppets we have had to endure for the past 50+ years. I don't want him playing the same old games of telling the people one thing and doing the bidding of the rich and powerful. It is more than obvious that while he was not under investigation Comey was perpetuating the lies by not telling the American people the truth about Trump. Letting a lie continue when merely telling the American people the same thing he told Trump is frustrating and in my opinion more than a good reason to fire Comey.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
And Witch hunts are great fun.

Hard argument to beat.
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Witch hunts have become popular because it mean billions of dollars to our corrupt media.

That is the reason the race card is dropped any time they think they can justify it whether true or not. Facts are left out while wild speculations are front page worthy. It is sad when you have to listen to the news from other countries because the news in this country is so bias and opinionated that you cannot be sure if anything they say is true.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
Witch hunts have become popular because it mean billions of dollars to our corrupt media.

That is the reason the race card is dropped any time they think they can justify it whether true or not. Facts are left out while wild speculations are front page worthy. It is sad when you have to listen to the news from other countries because the news in this country is so bias and opinionated that you cannot be sure if anything they say is true.
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No sir, witch hunts have become popular because we are ignorant sadistic assholes now...generally.

The Truth Hurts.

I KNOW!
 
Cardinal said:
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...ial&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=1497538438

I admit to feeling uncomfortable with these stories coming out. If I were a recently elected President with no government experience, no understanding of Democratic institutions or principles, no understanding of the relationship between the Executive branch and all other branches, a need to protect myself in the short term to the exclusion of all long term ramifications, little or no impulse control and a compulsive need to make my fan base happy, I would fire Mueller right...the hell...now.

The fact that Republican congressmen are calling such a move "disastrous" strongly suggests they're aware the possibility he may go through with firing Mueller is a very real world scenario.
Click to expand...

Well said. However, it would be Sessions who would have to fire Mueller, but as Sessions may also possibly come under investigation or at least as a witness Sessions would be insane to fire Trump. More than that Sessions has recused himself from Russian investigation and probably cannot then fire Mueller if directed to do so by Trump. It would fall to Rosenstein who has already stated that he would only fire Mueller if there was just cause and that he has seen no reasons that would justify his firing of Mueller. But Rosenstein was also involved in the the firing of Comey and as such could possibly be investigated or called as a witness regarding Trump's possible obstruction of justice for firing Comey. It is conceivable that Rosenstein would recuse himself rather than fire Mueller.

If Sessions and Rosenstein have recused themselves I have no idea who the next in line might be at DOJ. It would be an interesting dilemma.

No matter, I believe that if Trump were to move to fire Mueller it would open the gates of hell on Trump.

Trump doesn't appear to understand how all this works. I haven't had the impression that he is all that familiar with our form of democracy and how it functions. When it comes to governance Trump reminds me of the 5 blind guys describing an elephant. All said, Trump as you pointed out, has adolescent grade impulse control. He is in essence like a monkey with a shotgun. Trump could very easily wake up one morning and attempt to have Mueller fired. It would be a massive mistake even for man with few options.
 
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Risky Thicket said:
Well said. However, it would be Sessions who would have to fire Mueller, but as Sessions may also possibly come under investigation or at least as a witness Sessions would be insane to fire Trump. More than that Sessions has recused himself from Russian investigation and probably cannot then fire Mueller if directed to do so by Trump. It would fall to Rosenstein who has already stated that he would only fire Mueller if there was just cause and that he has seen no reasons that would justify his firing of Mueller. But Rosenstein was also involved in the the firing of Comey and as such could possibly be investigated or called as a witness regarding Trump's possible obstruction of justice for firing Comey. It is conceivable that Rosenstein would recuse himself rather than fire Mueller.

If Sessions and Rosenstein have recused themselves I have no idea who the next in line might be at DOJ. It would be an interesting dilemma.

No matter, I believe that if Trump were to move to fire Mueller it would open the gates of hell on Trump.

Trump doesn't appear to understand how all this works. I haven't had the impression that he is all that familiar with our form of democracy and how it functions. When it comes to governance Trump reminds me of the 5 blind guys describing an elephant. All said, Trump as you pointed out, has adolescent grade impulse control. He is in essence like a monkey with a shotgun. Trump could very easily wake up one morning and attempt to have Mueller fired. It would be a massive mistake even for man with few options.
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By Trump firing Mueller, I'm referring to the complete chain of events that would be set in motion in order to attain the result of Mueller being fired.

The result I see from this is not Congressional condemnation, certainly not impeachment. The result would be purely political, in that an assumption of guilt would be cemented in the mind of the public, and his approval would finally hit the 30% neighborhood, which is official red alarms blaring at all volumes for the Republican party as a whole.
 
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