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United Airlines is suicidal

bearpoker said:
This is a shocker. Surely a violin falls within the dimensions of carry-on luggage. What is United thinking? I wouldn't trust my ripped jeans to airline baggage handlers.
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Violins are carried in cases and the cases for 17th century violins might be rather large.
 
Cardinal said:
A violin wouldn't last eight seconds in baggage. Putting it in check-through would be sheer insanity, unless you were specifically trying to destroy it because you hated playing the violin.
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All the more reason to either travel first class (larger carry ons allowed?) or buy a ticket for the violin. These two options, however, don't lead to contrived situations and the possibility of a pay out.
 
For reference the applicable DOT regulation is located here.

It says in part:

The rule requires that each U.S. carrier subject to this regulation allow a passenger to carry into the cabin and stow a small musical instrument, such as a violin or a guitar, in a suitable baggage compartment, such as the overhead bin or a closet, or under the seats, in accordance with FAA safety regulations and the carrier’s FAA-approved carry-on baggage program.

Carriers must allow passengers to stow their small musical instruments in an approved stowage area in the cabin if at the time the passenger boards the aircraft such stowage space is available. Under the rule, musical instruments as carry-on items are treated no differently from other carry-on items and the stowage space should be made available for all carry-on items on a “first come, first served” basis. Carriers are not required to give musical instruments priority over other carry-on baggage, therefore passengers traveling with musical instruments may want to buy the pre-boarding option offered by many carriers to ensure that space will be available for them to safely stow their instruments in the cabin.
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It goes on to note that larger instruments can be carried on as "seat baggage."

Since the rule specifically calls out violins and guitars as an examples of "small musical instruments" it's clear that violins are eligible to be carried onboard. United points out on their website that passengers travelling under basic Economy tickets - their new low end fare that I believe she was travelling under - can substitute a small musical instrument (violins as per the above qualify) for a personal carry on item.

The only issue would be space availability. The news reports I read don't say why they asked her to check the violin.
 
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Cryptic said:
No, that is simply a claim made by a partisan individual. Tossing out a claim does not mean it happened. At the same time, a person can be partisan and still make an accurate claim.

Let me see....

- The woman could have just bought a ticket for the violin (but that costs money)
- Perhaps she could have bought a more expensive first class ticket for herself that allows larger carry ons (again, costs more money)
- Insisted on carrying it on after being told by several people that it was too large.
- Has already made a trip to a surgeon to examine her hands (redness after the "fight") for "damage". No doubt her stellar career as unknown super star violinist is at risk.
- Cash pay out is expected soon.

Yeah, right.
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She's a professional musician. Her ability to play is what puts food on the table. It's absolutely reasonable for her to have her hands checked by a doctor.


Cryptic said:
All the more reason to either travel first class (larger carry ons allowed?) or buy a ticket for the violin. These two options, however, don't lead to contrived situations and the possibility of a pay out.
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As per the DOT regulations I just posted all passengers, regardless of the fare they're travelling under, are allowed to carry small musical instruments on board. As per those same regulations violins, and much larger guitars, are considered small musical instruments.
 
reinoe said:
Anyone who thinks a violin is small is an idiot. This is just a PR stunt in order to get a quick payout from United because they're vulnerable.

And yet she boarded an airline.
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I dated a concert violinist once. Her instrument cost $30K. And, she treated it about how most women treat a baby. No way would she check that puppy in with regular baggage. And, yes. It's relatively small. Fits nicely under the seat or overhead bin.
 
Cryptic said:
No, that is simply a claim made by a partisan individual. Tossing out a claim does not mean it happened. At the same time, a person can be partisan and still make an accurate claim.

Let me see....

- The woman could have just bought a ticket for the violin (but that costs money)
- Perhaps she could have bought a more expensive first class ticket for herself that allows larger carry ons (again, costs more money)
- Insisted on carrying it on after being told by several people that it was too large.
- Has already made a trip to a surgeon to examine her hands (redness after the "fight") for "damage". No doubt her stellar career as unknown super star violinist is at risk.
- Cash pay out is expected soon.

Yeah, right.
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Partisan? okay :lol:

Anyways, as I said if that did happen as the lady said, which may or may not have we still need more info, there was no reason for the worker to put her hands and try and take someone else's property from their hands. You say (per your words tossing out a claim doesn't mean it happened) she insisted on carrying it on, she says she asked for options and would pay the money. He said/ she said but still insisting on anything doesn't give someone else the right to grab something from the other one.
 
Gaius46 said:
She's a professional musician. Her ability to play is what puts food on the table. It's absolutely reasonable for her to have her hands checked by a doctor. As per the DOT regulations I just posted all passengers, regardless of the fare they're travelling under, are allowed to carry small musical instruments on board. As per those same regulations violins, and much larger guitars, are considered small musical instruments.
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I seriously doubt that DOT has ordered all the air lines to permit guitars as a carry on item. Rather, some airlines may have, or might still allow people to do so. The choice remains with the air line. The doctor's visit to examine her hands after a contrived incident does not impress me either.
 
maquiscat said:
Musician: United wouldn’t let me bring valuable violin on board | New York Post

What the hell is wrong with this company? They can't help but harm their own business. At this point they might as well shut down.
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Why is it that people can't follow the rules or expect that the rules will not apply to them.
a small instrument is a flute or a clarinet or a trumpet.
a violin is not a small instrument. if she is such a great musician then pony up the money
for the right ticket.

don't buy the lowest fare ticket then complain when you don't want to abide by the terms of which you purchased it.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Pretty much everything they've done in 2017 should be included in a what not to do video on public relations and basic management. This company proves time after time that they are completely tone deaf to passenger needs, I know my new position may include a little air travel if I so choose, and United has zero shot at my dollars, I will plan around it if they are the only option.
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I travel united all the time. I have never had but great service with them.
 
ludin said:
I travel united all the time. I have never had but great service with them.
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I think it always depends on the person you are dealing with, not the company. There is always one person that hates their life/job/whatever and wants to make other people as miserable as they are. For the life of me I can never understand why they chose to deal with people as their job when they lack basic people skills.
 
americanwoman said:
I think it always depends on the person you are dealing with, not the company. There is always one person that hates their life/job/whatever and wants to make other people as miserable as they are. For the life of me I can never understand why they chose to deal with people as their job when they lack basic people skills.
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Ain't that the truth. A few weeks after 911 I accidentally checked my clothing into baggage and attempted to bring my tools on board the plane with me. Among those tools? A box cutter.

The security person quickly realized I was an idiot, not a terrorist, and calmly and politely told me to go check my tools into baggage. If that TSA agent had been petty and in a bad mood, he could have made my life thirty six flavors of hell.

By all appearances, the violinist in this case got the second type of employee.
 
Cryptic said:
I seriously doubt that DOT has ordered all the air lines to permit guitars as a carry on item. Rather, some airlines may have, or might still allow people to do so. The choice remains with the air line. The doctor's visit to examine her hands after a contrived incident does not impress me either.
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You are incorrect. I've linked to the regulation so you can read it. It applies to all carries subject to DOT oversight, which includes United. It is not optional.

As to her hands - we disagree.
 
Cardinal said:
Ain't that the truth. A few weeks after 911 I accidentally checked my clothing into baggage and attempted to bring my tools on board the plane with me. Among those tools? A box cutter.

The security person quickly realized I was an idiot, not a terrorist, and calmly and politely told me to go check my tools into baggage. If that TSA agent had been petty and in a bad mood, he could have made my life thirty six flavors of hell.

By all appearances, the violinist in this case got the second type of employee.
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I had a similar experience a few years ago on United or American - think it was American. I accidentally put my Leatherman in my carry on bag instead of the bag I checked. The TSA guy told me to bring it to the counter and see if they could get it into my checked luggage. The bags had already been sent to the aircraft but the gate agent got a ramp guy to go out to the plane, find my bag and bring it back to me so I could put the Leatherman in it.

Since it had been a gift from my recently deceased mother in law it held lots of sentimental value and really appreciated the airline for going well above and and beyond for me.
 
reinoe said:
Anyone who thinks a violin is small is an idiot. This is just a PR stunt in order to get a quick payout from United because they're vulnerable.

And yet she boarded an airline.
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Sure, corporate power is "vulnerable" in america.
 
maquiscat said:
What the hell is wrong with this company? They can't help but harm their own business. At this point they might as well shut down.
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They're not doing anything different than any other US airline. It's that after the police injured a lunatic when throwing him off the plane, "UNITED" has become clickbait.
 
Cardinal said:
A violin wouldn't last eight seconds in baggage. Putting it in check-through would be sheer insanity, unless you were specifically trying to destroy it because you hated playing the violin.
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then she should have paid the extra money to stow it in the overhead bin or bought a separate seat for it next to her.
 
americanwoman said:
I think it always depends on the person you are dealing with, not the company. There is always one person that hates their life/job/whatever and wants to make other people as miserable as they are. For the life of me I can never understand why they chose to deal with people as their job when they lack basic people skills.
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If that is the case I haven't seen it on any of the flights I have flown with them in the past 3 years.
I will only fly them or southwest.
 
Visbek said:
They're not doing anything different than any other US airline. It's that after the police injured a lunatic when throwing him off the plane, "UNITED" has become clickbait.
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Even if true that other airlines are equally horrible, they are, IMO at least, still getting the coverage they deserve for horrible customer service.

In this case, her ticket prohibited storing an item in the overhead bin but with an exception for a "small" musical instrument. Well, if a customer doesn't interpret that vague language correctly and shows up with a violin worth likely $10s of thousands, the obvious answer is to say, "OK, ma'am, under the brand new policy you've never flown under before, a violin does not qualify. We'll make an exception today but next time buy the right ticket." So easy a child could do it, but the company had to first give a **** about customer service and not extracting the last possible penny from every traveler, which appears to be United's problem here. If they don't give a ****, and they don't appear to, then bad PR of them not giving a **** is fine with me.
 
TheGoverness said:
United Airlines' Motto: "**** You."
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She bought one of these ultra discount fares that doesn't get you access to overhead compartments. Exactly how did she imagine this instrument was going to get transported?
 
JasperL said:
Even if true that other airlines are equally horrible, they are, IMO at least, still getting the coverage they deserve for horrible customer service.

In this case, her ticket prohibited storing an item in the overhead bin but with an exception for a "small" musical instrument. Well, if a customer doesn't interpret that vague language correctly and shows up with a violin worth likely $10s of thousands, the obvious answer is to say, "OK, ma'am, under the brand new policy you've never flown under before, a violin does not qualify. We'll make an exception today but next time buy the right ticket." So easy a child could do it, but the company had to first give a **** about customer service and not extracting the last possible penny from every traveler, which appears to be United's problem here. If they don't give a ****, and they don't appear to, then bad PR of them not giving a **** is fine with me.
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She's the one who made the decision to try and transport a very expensive instrument in the cheapest possible manner.

Was the PR situation going to be made better by forcing someone else, who paid full fare, to check their bag?
 
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Deuce said:
She's the one who made the decision to try and transport a very expensive instrument in the cheapest possible manner.

Was the PR situation going to be made better by forcing someone else, who paid full fare, to check their bag?
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Sure she tried to travel the cheapest way possible but that "cheapest possible manner" is totally acceptable if she can, like I'm sure she's done many times, put the instrument in the overhead bin. If she misread or didn't know about the BRAND NEW POLICY and/or believed "small" musical instrument covered her violin, there are many ways for United to handle it other than the way they did, which if the reports are true amount to basically, "FK YOU CUSTOMER!"

She asked for options - they gave her none except to check the violin. And if the accounts are correct, then tried to wrestle the violin from her by force. That's crap. If United wants to treat customers that way, I'm all for publicizing that limited only by the truth of how the airline reacted. If you think they did nothing wrong, you can get your next flight through United. Others with different opinions can go down the list of other airlines and avoid United like the plague. Point is TRUTHFUL information about how the airline handled it is an unmitigated good thing. It's how the market works.

As far as making others check their bag - that's not in evidence. And here's how I look at it - first they charge $25 per "checked" bag, so no kidding, we all figure out how to pack in a suitcase that qualifies as a 'carry on.' But now so many of us have 'carry on' luggage that the overhead and seats in front can't hold it all, so now they charge for 'checking' bags AND for carrying a bag on the plane. I'm just sick of getting nickel and dimed on crap like this and bad PR on crappy policies that treat customers like dirt is a total WIN for me.
 
ludin said:
then she should have paid the extra money to stow it in the overhead bin or bought a separate seat for it next to her.
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Not required as per DOT regulations. She was within her rights to bring the instrument and it should have been stowed in the overhead or in the forward closet assuming there was space for it.
 
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