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Gabrielle Giffords’ Call For Sympathy And Understanding Is Met With... Hate

Deuce said:
Given that those same idiots on twitter elected the biggest idiot on twitter, I'm going to have to suggest that we can't.
Click to expand...

yeah Hillary supporters never go on Twitter. and the Hillary supporter group is free from idiots. Is that your point?
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Those are the things that would work to get us focused on the work....to stop stalling and wasting time on things that should not even be worth our time, like how our ancestors some of them did it, they worked to push civilization ahead rather than tear it down out of idiocy as we do now. .

We have some really big problems, and they all start with us...all of us.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah - I completely agree that this is all of us, individually and collectively.

The big difference I see is that our ancestors both built and destroyed. Human history is all about building civilizations, watching them decline, destroying other civilizations, an entire cycle repeating. The problem now is that the world's population has exploded. The stakes are so much higher and the destructive potential is so much greater.

I am not in the group that says nothing can be done. They be right but waiting for inevitable armageddon is just kinda pointless. I also don't believe that there is one big answer - there are a lot of smaller, and far less showy answers. I guess actually there are a lot of smaller, and less showy issues, really.

Then again, there is the dystopian SF fan nihilistic streak inside me that says maybe pockets of survivors will do a better job next time around...sigh.
 
Angelus said:
Oh yeah - I completely agree that this is all of us, individually and collectively.

The big difference I see is that our ancestors both built and destroyed. Human history is all about building civilizations, watching them decline, destroying other civilizations, an entire cycle repeating. The problem now is that the world's population has exploded. The stakes are so much higher and the destructive potential is so much greater.

I am not in the group that says nothing can be done. They be right but waiting for inevitable armageddon is just kinda pointless. I also don't believe that there is one big answer - there are a lot of smaller, and far less showy answers. I guess actually there are a lot of smaller, and less showy issues, really.

Then again, there is the dystopian SF fan nihilistic streak inside me that says maybe pockets of survivors will do a better job next time around...sigh.
Click to expand...

Death and birth, that is the rhythm of life, and it is so so important that it is mostly the right ones who die.

But see us now, we are out there with our tool set to automatic, mowing down everything.

Because we are stupid.

We SADLY dont care.

STUPID
 
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ajn678 said:
The problem is going to Twitter and expecting to find reasonable people. Twitter is a collection of the dumbest people in the world posting their worthless opinions.
Click to expand...

Are you speaking from experience?
 
Mustachio said:
Ironically, people blame the media, but it's the NEW media. Twitter, youtube, 4chan, reddit, all that garbage.
Click to expand...

You mean blame all the things that allow regular Americans to communicate with one another and instead of the large old media that has literally been caught multiple times misleading people?
 
Angelus said:
Gabrielle Giffords' Call For Sympathy And Understanding Is Met With... Hate | HuffPost

As an assassination attempt survivor, former Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) knows a thing or two about gun violence. In 2011, the congresswoman was shot in the head during a campaign event in Arizona.

On Wednesday, she reacted to the news of a shooting at a congressional baseball practice with deep sympathy for those affected. She also expressed appreciation for the Capitol Police, whose quick response undoubtedly stopped a tragic situation from becoming worse: My heart is with my former colleagues, their families & staff, and the US Capitol Police- public servants and heroes today and every day.

Here are some of the responses she got: @GabbyGiffords BS, you probably staged this for another gun-grab attempt. Sorry, TRAITOR, it's NOT going to work. @GabbyGiffords @CR People like you enable this by trying to ban legal firearms go F yourself

There were more responses, but those two stood out.The weird thing is that Giffords is not even anti-gun - she owns guns and shoots at the range regularly. She lives in AZ - everyone owns guns here. But the people who want to blame her don't know that.

And so the hate spreads on, and on like a cancer - and the zealot partisans blame anyone on the other side. I mean, anyone.

The shooter was a left wing loony - no idea if he had any mental health issues before he took up politics as anger. I'm pretty sure we'll b finding a lot about him in the days to come. But the fact is that, like the Giffords assassination attempt, this was one person with a gun. I don't see anyone celebrating in the streets. I do see some crazies from all sides going for twitter fame.

What I would like to see s a realization that political rhetoric needs to be scaled back on both sides of the aisle. The reason our govt is increasingly dysfunctional is that cooperation and compromise are now seen as dirty words. This attitude is bolstered by the crazies, and it reinforces them as well.

So - how do we break that cycle? Any ideas?
Click to expand...

I do not think the spiral of hate on both sides is at all stoppable as long as he have an unidentified person behind a keyboard.
It is easy for someone to hate, be a troll, post terrible things, and get away with it. All they need is an internet connection, a fake user name, and they are ready to roll.
I also saw how just as many left wing nut cases applauded the shooters actions today as well, and remember, the KILL TRUMP site is still up on Facebook as I understand it.
So no, poison like this will remain in the veins of our republic until one day it kills us.

A solution might possibly be what YELP did. You can't post unless you identify yourself. That would be a good start.
Just imaging off to the side of each and every post someone did was their complete real name, and the town and state they live in.
That certainly might be a good step in the right direction in eliminating trolling posts like those you spoke about.
it is that "unknown" factor that makes them do what they do. They love posting in the shadows.
 
shrubnose said:
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness,only light can do that.Hate cannot drive out hate,only love can do that." ~ Martin Luther King,Jr.

"Just sayin."
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Eloquent words, but remember he also got shot and killed. That was the reality. I grew up with and was surrounded a few of those hateful people of that period. believe me, even if you said you loved them, they would still blow your brains out, and say "and your point is"?
 
Angelus said:
Well - I don't expect it to happen spontaneously but I don't think it's all a doomed spiral either. It takes a tipping point - a certain portion of adults who give less energy toward those who are here to rant and blame, and those who are here to try to figure these things out, or even just to take our wits for a walk.

On a site like this that attracts people who are interested in some sort of political discourse, we have mods who act like adults. But we also seem to have an internal drive toward rational discourse. Things were pretty insane during the election, but I've seen fewer people simply interested in pile on attacks. Overall I see some serious changes in the tenor of discourse. Or is this wishful thinking?
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I was not here, but I do not think i could even imagine the insanity on a political website during an election year. Especially this last election.
It must have made inner city Chicago look like a Sunday prayer meeting.
 
reinoe said:
You mean blame all the things that allow regular Americans to communicate with one another and instead of the large old media that has literally been caught multiple times misleading people?
Click to expand...

Please tell me you're the guy who I asked for examples of "fake news" and researched the first six and found out they were all accurate.

But yeah, 4chan, reddit, youtube and twitter are the easiest ways for gullible Americans to be brainwashed. Putin knows it. That's why it is a fairly common belief among the alt-right that Hillary Clinton is ordering hits on people and a less common but still popular belief that Jon Podesta ate babies in a satanic ritual - the infamous Pizzagate scandal. Tell me, what have you learned from Twitter and Youtube that the "large, old media" (re: reliable media that has primary sourcing) has failed to tell you? We have to stop believing things because we hate the political party we don't belong to. And we have to start believing the things that are founded in fact and not fantasy, regardless of whether or not it helps "your side" "win."
 
Angelus said:
Gabrielle Giffords' Call For Sympathy And Understanding Is Met With... Hate | HuffPost

As an assassination attempt survivor, former Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) knows a thing or two about gun violence. In 2011, the congresswoman was shot in the head during a campaign event in Arizona.

On Wednesday, she reacted to the news of a shooting at a congressional baseball practice with deep sympathy for those affected. She also expressed appreciation for the Capitol Police, whose quick response undoubtedly stopped a tragic situation from becoming worse: My heart is with my former colleagues, their families & staff, and the US Capitol Police- public servants and heroes today and every day.

Here are some of the responses she got: @GabbyGiffords BS, you probably staged this for another gun-grab attempt. Sorry, TRAITOR, it's NOT going to work. @GabbyGiffords @CR People like you enable this by trying to ban legal firearms go F yourself

There were more responses, but those two stood out.The weird thing is that Giffords is not even anti-gun - she owns guns and shoots at the range regularly. She lives in AZ - everyone owns guns here. But the people who want to blame her don't know that.

And so the hate spreads on, and on like a cancer - and the zealot partisans blame anyone on the other side. I mean, anyone.

The shooter was a left wing loony - no idea if he had any mental health issues before he took up politics as anger. I'm pretty sure we'll b finding a lot about him in the days to come. But the fact is that, like the Giffords assassination attempt, this was one person with a gun. I don't see anyone celebrating in the streets. I do see some crazies from all sides going for twitter fame.

What I would like to see s a realization that political rhetoric needs to be scaled back on both sides of the aisle. The reason our govt is increasingly dysfunctional is that cooperation and compromise are now seen as dirty words. This attitude is bolstered by the crazies, and it reinforces them as well.

So - how do we break that cycle? Any ideas?
Click to expand...

The old media was/still kinda is slowly dying and have turned to tabloidst journalism, right under the noses of a lot of people.
They contributed to the air of hysteria of the last few years by sensationalizing and editorializing things they shouldn't be.

Internet social media sights have been curating their platforms by banning mean words and alleged harassment.
Thus we're seeing the creation of echo chambering, that radicalize already unstable people.
 
Mustachio said:
Please tell me you're the guy who I asked for examples of "fake news" and researched the first six and found out they were all accurate.

But yeah, 4chan, reddit, youtube and twitter are the easiest ways for gullible Americans to be brainwashed. Putin knows it. That's why it is a fairly common belief among the alt-right that Hillary Clinton is ordering hits on people and a less common but still popular belief that Jon Podesta ate babies in a satanic ritual - the infamous Pizzagate scandal. Tell me, what have you learned from Twitter and Youtube that the "large, old media" (re: reliable media that has primary sourcing) has failed to tell you? We have to stop believing things because we hate the political party we don't belong to. And we have to start believing the things that are founded in fact and not fantasy, regardless of whether or not it helps "your side" "win."
Click to expand...


Youtube, hosts some of the most original, thought providing and honest content.
It is far and away superior to anything in old media.

Russians aren't radicalizing people in the US, that's largely self serving old media conspiracy theory.
Meant to delegitimatize their competition.
 
VanceMack said:
3rd...perhaps we shouldnt be rushing to point to the lunatic fringe to define either side (and while that may sound logical enough, look how often that happens on this site-in fact...wasnt that the intent of this thread and the article that spawned it?)
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You, vancemack, do exactly this literally every single day on this message board.
 
Deuce said:
You, vancemack, do exactly this literally every single day on this message board.
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And you are a saint...right?

We all do it. Hence the 'we'. But you stay classy, Deuce.
 
Our kids are growing up with a lack of empathy. Social media/Internet has made this worse. When you can go on any news site and see more people shot and killed, everyday, it becomes almost....normal. Instead of taking the time to empathize with those who were shot, people can start in with the hateful rhetoric.
 
Chaddelamancha said:
Our kids are growing up with a lack of empathy. Social media/Internet has made this worse. When you can go on any news site and see more people shot and killed, everyday, it becomes almost....normal. Instead of taking the time to empathize with those who were shot, people can start in with the hateful rhetoric.
Click to expand...

I think our kids have empathy, but only for a smaller circle of people they know. In some ways this is natural for kids - part of growing up is losing the sense of entitlement, and realizing the world is not fair and what other people need really does matter.

What they are getting - and I agree with you completely - is a platform that extends their meanness from fact to face incidents. A platform that others can join in on and feel cool, while those who object stay silent in order not to get targeted. Then, of course, they have a lot of adult role models who show the how to best use that platform to spread hate, and get their way.
 
GOP, Dems move to lower the temperature after shooting | TheHill
GOP, Dems move to lower the temperature after shooting


Republican and Democratic leaders stressed unity Thursday night as members of both parties gathered for the annual congressional baseball game a day after a gunman opened fire at a practice, injuring House Majority Whip Steve Scalise (R-La.) and three others.

House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) and Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) appeared together in their first-ever joint interview on CNN, where they offered well wishes for Scalise, who remained in critical condition Thursday evening.

"Tonight we're all Team Scalise," Pelosi told CNN's Jake Tapper, as she and Ryan sported LSU apparel in a nod to the Louisiana lawmaker's alma mater. Mentioning their shared heritage, Pelosi joked, "We have an Italian connection."

Ryan urged members of both parties to come together and "break bread" in the wake of Wednesday's shooting at a nearby baseball field in Alexandria, Va., where Republicans had gathered to practice.

Ryan spoke about how he had gotten to know Scalise as a fellow member of the Republican leadership.

"We spend every day together, working together," Ryan said. "He's in the hospital covering, he's got a ways to go."

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and Minority Leader Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) also appeared together in an interview with CNN's Anderson Cooper to stress unity.

Hey, it's a start. I don't even care how much it's meant by each person. We need to go back to the time when congressional representatives showed respect for each other even when they disagreed.
 
Angelus said:
Gabrielle Giffords' Call For Sympathy And Understanding Is Met With... Hate | HuffPost

As an assassination attempt survivor, former Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) knows a thing or two about gun violence. In 2011, the congresswoman was shot in the head during a campaign event in Arizona.

On Wednesday, she reacted to the news of a shooting at a congressional baseball practice with deep sympathy for those affected. She also expressed appreciation for the Capitol Police, whose quick response undoubtedly stopped a tragic situation from becoming worse: My heart is with my former colleagues, their families & staff, and the US Capitol Police- public servants and heroes today and every day.

Here are some of the responses she got: @GabbyGiffords BS, you probably staged this for another gun-grab attempt. Sorry, TRAITOR, it's NOT going to work. @GabbyGiffords @CR People like you enable this by trying to ban legal firearms go F yourself

There were more responses, but those two stood out.The weird thing is that Giffords is not even anti-gun - she owns guns and shoots at the range regularly. She lives in AZ - everyone owns guns here. But the people who want to blame her don't know that.

And so the hate spreads on, and on like a cancer - and the zealot partisans blame anyone on the other side. I mean, anyone.

The shooter was a left wing loony - no idea if he had any mental health issues before he took up politics as anger. I'm pretty sure we'll b finding a lot about him in the days to come. But the fact is that, like the Giffords assassination attempt, this was one person with a gun. I don't see anyone celebrating in the streets. I do see some crazies from all sides going for twitter fame.

What I would like to see s a realization that political rhetoric needs to be scaled back on both sides of the aisle. The reason our govt is increasingly dysfunctional is that cooperation and compromise are now seen as dirty words. This attitude is bolstered by the crazies, and it reinforces them as well.

So - how do we break that cycle? Any ideas?
Click to expand...

We break the cycle with our votes. Instead of reelection leaders that drive wedges; we elect leaders that build bridges. We think for ourselves and not think what opinion pieces on biased news stations tell us to think. We need politicians to stop the blame game and look at see what they can change to make things better.

We just need more from our leaders
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Youtube, hosts some of the most original, thought providing and honest content.
It is far and away superior to anything in old media.

Russians aren't radicalizing people in the US, that's largely self serving old media conspiracy theory.
Meant to delegitimatize their competition.
Click to expand...

I post on youtube. It's great for things like recipes, old footage of Bob Dylan, and people falling down. Superior to anything in the "old media," which is a funny thing to call a paper like the Post or the Times which are exploding and breaking story after story, no it is not. Same question - name one thing you learned or one story that broke on youtube - where you heard it first. The Young Turks? RT? That stuff is absolute crap. He who relies on youtube for information is he who is the most misinformed. You know, it's better if you just answer my question - what did you learn on youtube that didn't appear in that dusty old media first?
 
Mustachio said:
I post on youtube. It's great for things like recipes, old footage of Bob Dylan, and people falling down. Superior to anything in the "old media," which is a funny thing to call a paper like the Post or the Times which are exploding and breaking story after story, no it is not. Same question - name one thing you learned or one story that broke on youtube - where you heard it first. The Young Turks? RT? That stuff is absolute crap. He who relies on youtube for information is he who is the most misinformed. You know, it's better if you just answer my question - what did you learn on youtube that didn't appear in that dusty old media first?
Click to expand...

If you believe Comey, both the Post and the Times have been platforming false information.
Breaking news that is false, is not news at all.
Not only that, but we probably have different ideas of "breaking news."

Several breaking stories for me have come via twitter, through Wikileaks.
Something the old media took days to really pick up or have largely ignored.

Another event, that was at best given lip service by old media was Trumps infamous, "Last night in Sweden."
Old media largely laughed it off as a nothing burger, but did they even bother to explore the issues going on in Sweden, no.
A YouTuber went there and interviewed immigrants, state officials, media and citizens to get a greater understanding.

Then there are the other channels.
My personal interest in history is satisfied by the many channels offering free, in depth content, no available on TV period.
Not a single channel or show can reach the depth and width of a channel like Real Crusades History.

Old media is in heated competition with new media and they've adopted tabloid journalism right under your nose.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
If you believe Comey, both the Post and the Times have been platforming false information.
Breaking news that is false, is not news at all.
Not only that, but we probably have different ideas of "breaking news."

Several breaking stories for me have come via twitter, through Wikileaks.
Something the old media took days to really pick up or have largely ignored.

Another event, that was at best given lip service by old media was Trumps infamous, "Last night in Sweden."
Old media largely laughed it off as a nothing burger, but did they even bother to explore the issues going on in Sweden, no.
A YouTuber went there and interviewed immigrants, state officials, media and citizens to get a greater understanding.

Then there are the other channels.
My personal interest in history is satisfied by the many channels offering free, in depth content, no available on TV period.
Not a single channel or show can reach the depth and width of a channel like Real Crusades History.

Old media is in heated competition with new media and they've adopted tabloid journalism right under your nose.
Click to expand...

Oh, the Wikileaks. Yes. Great. Ok, so long as you understand that it's been weaponized to support those who shield Assange and his cohorts, that's fine. If you think Wikileaks gives you the whole story, you're out of your mind.

What breaking news that is false? The Comey memos that were true? Kushner being investigated which was true? Flynn's ties to Russia which were true? Sessions meetings with the same Russians which was true? Trump being investigated (last night's news) which was true? Obama not wiretapping Trump tower which was true? Trump leaking info to the Russians which was true? The problem is, you don't read it, so I don't expect you to know any better, but

The "last night in Sweden thing" was Trump talking about a news piece on Fox. It wasn't a breaking news story, and if you were unaware of sociopolitical issues in Sweden and Donal Trump accidentally made you learn about them, I think that's funny but it doesn't make Twitter valuable.

Don't know about real crusades. It says it's historical fiction on its website as far as I can tell. Again, youtube is fine for entertainment. It's when people think entertainment is news that we get a guy going into a pizza parlor ready to slaughter innocent people. If there is no reliable sourcing, you can't trust it, and a whole lot of people don't get that at all.
 
Angelus said:
Gabrielle Giffords' Call For Sympathy And Understanding Is Met With... Hate | HuffPost

As an assassination attempt survivor, former Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) knows a thing or two about gun violence. In 2011, the congresswoman was shot in the head during a campaign event in Arizona.

On Wednesday, she reacted to the news of a shooting at a congressional baseball practice with deep sympathy for those affected. She also expressed appreciation for the Capitol Police, whose quick response undoubtedly stopped a tragic situation from becoming worse: My heart is with my former colleagues, their families & staff, and the US Capitol Police- public servants and heroes today and every day.

Here are some of the responses she got: @GabbyGiffords BS, you probably staged this for another gun-grab attempt. Sorry, TRAITOR, it's NOT going to work. @GabbyGiffords @CR People like you enable this by trying to ban legal firearms go F yourself

There were more responses, but those two stood out.The weird thing is that Giffords is not even anti-gun - she owns guns and shoots at the range regularly. She lives in AZ - everyone owns guns here. But the people who want to blame her don't know that.

And so the hate spreads on, and on like a cancer - and the zealot partisans blame anyone on the other side. I mean, anyone.

The shooter was a left wing loony - no idea if he had any mental health issues before he took up politics as anger. I'm pretty sure we'll b finding a lot about him in the days to come. But the fact is that, like the Giffords assassination attempt, this was one person with a gun. I don't see anyone celebrating in the streets. I do see some crazies from all sides going for twitter fame.

What I would like to see s a realization that political rhetoric needs to be scaled back on both sides of the aisle. The reason our govt is increasingly dysfunctional is that cooperation and compromise are now seen as dirty words. This attitude is bolstered by the crazies, and it reinforces them as well.

So - how do we break that cycle? Any ideas?
Click to expand...

Why does it matter what two anonymous people say on the internet?
 
Angelus said:
Gabrielle Giffords' Call For Sympathy And Understanding Is Met With... Hate | HuffPost

As an assassination attempt survivor, former Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) knows a thing or two about gun violence. In 2011, the congresswoman was shot in the head during a campaign event in Arizona.

On Wednesday, she reacted to the news of a shooting at a congressional baseball practice with deep sympathy for those affected. She also expressed appreciation for the Capitol Police, whose quick response undoubtedly stopped a tragic situation from becoming worse: My heart is with my former colleagues, their families & staff, and the US Capitol Police- public servants and heroes today and every day.

Here are some of the responses she got: @GabbyGiffords BS, you probably staged this for another gun-grab attempt. Sorry, TRAITOR, it's NOT going to work. @GabbyGiffords @CR People like you enable this by trying to ban legal firearms go F yourself

There were more responses, but those two stood out.The weird thing is that Giffords is not even anti-gun - she owns guns and shoots at the range regularly. She lives in AZ - everyone owns guns here. But the people who want to blame her don't know that.

And so the hate spreads on, and on like a cancer - and the zealot partisans blame anyone on the other side. I mean, anyone.

The shooter was a left wing loony - no idea if he had any mental health issues before he took up politics as anger. I'm pretty sure we'll b finding a lot about him in the days to come. But the fact is that, like the Giffords assassination attempt, this was one person with a gun. I don't see anyone celebrating in the streets. I do see some crazies from all sides going for twitter fame.

What I would like to see s a realization that political rhetoric needs to be scaled back on both sides of the aisle. The reason our govt is increasingly dysfunctional is that cooperation and compromise are now seen as dirty words. This attitude is bolstered by the crazies, and it reinforces them as well.

So - how do we break that cycle? Any ideas?
Click to expand...

It's the people, we just refuse to take any responsibility for anything at all. Let's just blame it all on the politicians and govt as per usual. Like we do with the media. Damn those bastards for giving us what we crave and respond to.
 
Mustachio said:
Oh, the Wikileaks. Yes. Great. Ok, so long as you understand that it's been weaponized to support those who shield Assange and his cohorts, that's fine. If you think Wikileaks gives you the whole story, you're out of your mind.
Click to expand...

You need evidence to substantiate this claim.
Otherwise you're falling for #fakenews.

Mustachio said:
What breaking news that is false? The Comey memos that were true? Kushner being investigated which was true? Flynn's ties to Russia which were true? Sessions meetings with the same Russians which was true? Trump being investigated (last night's news) which was true? Obama not wiretapping Trump tower which was true? Trump leaking info to the Russians which was true? The problem is, you don't read it, so I don't expect you to know any better, but
Click to expand...

The thing with all this is, you don't know what's true or not, until it's confirmed by official sources.
Essentially you're uncritically believing claims in old media, without evidence.
Not only that but, you lack the proper context to understand the claims be made, aka they're often sensationalized (eg: "meeting with Russia.")

Mustachio said:
The "last night in Sweden thing" was Trump talking about a news piece on Fox. It wasn't a breaking news story, and if you were unaware of sociopolitical issues in Sweden and Donal Trump accidentally made you learn about them, I think that's funny but it doesn't make Twitter valuable.
Click to expand...

I highly doubt that most people who laughed off the "last night in Sweden" event understand the issues in Sweden.

Mustachio said:
Don't know about real crusades. It says it's historical fiction on its website as far as I can tell. Again, youtube is fine for entertainment. It's when people think entertainment is news that we get a guy going into a pizza parlor ready to slaughter innocent people. If there is no reliable sourcing, you can't trust it, and a whole lot of people don't get that at all.
Click to expand...

It's a Youtube channel that talks over the detailed events on the crusades, while also selling their historical fiction books.
They invite on numerous academics, from the world, to discuss the integral events of the Crusades.
They also use primary sourcing from Saracen, Eastern Roman and Westerner sources of that time.

Stupid people believed Pizzagate, uncritically.
Stupid people also believed Trump was a puppet of Putin, again uncritically.
This is not something isolated to new media, old media has become a tabloid.
 
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