• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Trump vs Obama

ModerateRN said:
There are many conservatives are not slobbering all over him. They do feel inclined to defend themselves because it appears to be a never-ending attack from the liberal elite. But the same zeal was seen for Obama despite his lame duck presidency (not entirely his fault due to having a congress that would not play ball for most of his presidency).

Everyone usually roots for their home team regardless of how they do.
Click to expand...

I don't have a home team when it comes to politics. So, when I see a bad president, it's usually a bad president. The only good with Trjmp is that he is galvanizing the opposition. And, that can't be all bad because the GOP has been galvanized for the past eight years and had begun dominating the ball for the last 4. It's time for the other team to get back in the game.
 
MaggieD said:
That's amusing. I don't remember hearing ANYONE saying Obama was the worst president ever. That position is reserved in perpetuity for Bill Clinton.
Click to expand...

If you'd like, I can show you MULTIPLE posts from MULTIPLE posters on this forum who said exactly that Obama was the worst President ever.
 
Conaeolos said:
I know this is just a vent but I have read/heard 361 people just today have to tell me how Trump is either stupid, crazy and/or a liar. Of those how many actually want to discuss it calmly? Zero

So much anger and hate. And as for your question:

I can’t speak for others but I was quite comfortable with Obama even voted for the guy. I mean Mccain as president that is a scary thought and I think Romney had a case but has shown his colors since 2012 and going Obama was a good bet. Presdient take a lot smack, I am sorry obama was no exception.

I’d ask maybe if you stop painting Trump supports as idiots and ask some clarifying questions you might do you bit to make it all a bit more civil. And who knows, you might at least understand where they are coming from even if you still don't like the guy.
Click to expand...


Trump is a birther. A birther should never be president because they are just plain Liars. Trump makes fun of handicapped people people that make fun of handicapped people should never be president cuz they're sleazebags
 
Perotista said:
The problem with it being a racial thing is Republicans or RW as you call them were also against Bill Clinton when he made the same stance or positions on the issues. I'm sure with a few out there it was a racial thing. But you shouldn't expect an political ideology to do a 180 just because a black is elected instead of a white man. Republicans were against healthcare under Bill Clinton, against it under Obama and so on. It's more of a political party and ideological thing.

It always has been my opinion that those on the left jumped on the racist bandwagon way too often just to accuse those with a different political ideology of being racist. I opposed the ACA, does that make me racist since it was a black man who wanted and sponsored it along with signing it into law? I also opposed Hillary's healthcare plan back in 1993.
Click to expand...


Part of the right Wing's opposition to Obama was obviously racist there really isn't any question on the thing that's why the right-wing used the birther thing
 
MaggieD said:
That's amusing. I don't remember hearing ANYONE saying Obama was the worst president ever. That position is reserved in perpetuity for Bill Clinton.
Click to expand...

That's laughably absurd, considering Clinton was better than his successor by a country mile.
 
calamity said:
heh...now, isn't this apt?

John McCain Slams Trump: U.S. Leadership Was Better Under Obama
Click to expand...

McCain was/is a "great hero", when he supports a Trump agenda. When he doesn't, he is "senile" and a "war monger". Same EXACT thing with Comey. When he released the email info about Weiner's laptop, he was a "Great American". Now, he is just a "liar".

The bottom line is simply this: The DB "Trumpophobes", are not Obama to Trump crossover voters. As you can plainly see by their positings, they simply don't possess that level of intelligence. These are just the DP folks who were simply appalled with having a Black man in the White House and have no problem with a Trump win regardless of how it was attained.
 
Kobie said:
That's laughably absurd, considering Clinton was better than his successor by a country mile.
Click to expand...

Miss Maggie has a very "convenient" memory when it comes to certain topics. Like stolen SC seats and other related topics.......)
 
katzgar said:
Part of the right Wing's opposition to Obama was obviously racist there really isn't any question on the thing that's why the right-wing used the birther thing
Click to expand...

I'm sure some were. But I also think it was more of a continuation of the long on going battle of ideology of RW vs. LW. The polarization, extreme partisanship and hatred of right and left of each other I think began during the late Bill Clinton Presidency. The impeachment, but more so in the House when Hastert took over from Gingrich and brought in the Hastert rule.

It increased during Bush and flowered into downright hatred of each other in 2006 when Pelosi and Reid took over. I need to add McConnell to that duo as he was just as bad and hyper partisan. All three put political party over nation in my opinion. Obama being black, racist was used all the time by the left. Thrown at anyone and everyone who ever had a political difference with President Obama. It was thrown at me on several occasions. Which was fine as I let it just roll off my back and chalked it up as partisan rhetoric.

But the bad thing is today that neither side is talking to each other. Polarization has turned into the politics of destruction. Sure you had some on the right that wanted to destroy Obama, but you have that amount ten fold today bent on destroying Trump.
 
Perotista said:
I'm sure some were. But I also think it was more of a continuation of the long on going battle of ideology of RW vs. LW. The polarization, extreme partisanship and hatred of right and left of each other I think began during the late Bill Clinton Presidency. The impeachment, but more so in the House when Hastert took over from Gingrich and brought in the Hastert rule.

It increased during Bush and flowered into downright hatred of each other in 2006 when Pelosi and Reid took over. I need to add McConnell to that duo as he was just as bad and hyper partisan. All three put political party over nation in my opinion. Obama being black, racist was used all the time by the left. Thrown at anyone and everyone who ever had a political difference with President Obama. It was thrown at me on several occasions. Which was fine as I let it just roll off my back and chalked it up as partisan rhetoric.

But the bad thing is today that neither side is talking to each other. Polarization has turned into the politics of destruction. Sure you had some on the right that wanted to destroy Obama, but you have that amount ten fold today bent on destroying Trump.
Click to expand...


my only difference is I see the Obama opposition at least as bad as the trump opposition.
 
katzgar said:
my only difference is I see the Obama opposition at least as bad as the trump opposition.
Click to expand...

Those who were dead set against either, their energy, yes. I think the numbers who wanted destruction of Obama at no matter the cost was much lower. In that group, you could be correct as that is where your racist resided. I would like to see every president be a success for America regardless of who he is. That doesn't mean always being successful in his own personal agenda, but successful in those which enhance and help the country to keep moving forward.

I also want a president that listens to the American people. That doesn't let a personal agenda, political agenda over ride the wants, wishes and needs of America as a whole to further a political parties agenda regardless of the party or the president. My opinion is that Bill Clinton learned that lesson in the 1994 mid terms and reversed course and brought about triangulation and proceeded with policies most Americans wanted. Not just those of his base. I don't think Obama learned a thing from the 2010 debacle and continued to do whatever his base wanted. Of course you have some good and some bad, but didn't take America as a whole into consideration. Trump is doing the same thing. Trying to please his base to the maximum which will lead to another 2010 in 2018 only with the Republicans on the receiving end as America as a whole bites back.
 
katzgar said:
Trump is a birther. A birther should never be president because they are just plain Liars. Trump makes fun of handicapped people people that make fun of handicapped people should never be president cuz they're sleazebags
Click to expand...
The second part of your statement shows why you cannot contextualize the first without it being racist. And no, I am not a birther.

Trump making fun of handicapped people is a manufactured smear. It takes all of one second to find a video showing how it was done. I’d suggest you question political narratives a bit more before think any political figure is just a caricature.


calamity said:
I don't have a home team when it comes to politics. So, when I see a bad president, it's usually a bad president. The only good with Trump is that he is galvanizing the opposition. And, that can't be all bad because the GOP has been galvanized for the past eight years and had begun dominating the ball for the last 4. It's time for the other team to get back in the game.
Click to expand...
I’ll be curious if your right about the democrats rallying there are some signs of reflection for why they are losing touch with a lot of swing voters. I hope those are the voices that take root.

As for ‘when I see a bad president, it's usually a bad president’ I feel the same way about myself. I just think you’re seeing a bad president because his political opposition in both parties are using your information channels to shape your perspective against his new style of politicking.When arguements start overtaking smears when you explain your postion I'll beleive you its just weighing in as there are positives and negatives to any president.
 
Conaeolos said:
The second part of your statement shows why you cannot contextualize the first without it being racist. And no, I am not a birther.

Trump making fun of handicapped people is a manufactured smear. It takes all of one second to find a video showing how it was done. I’d suggest you question political narratives a bit more before think any political figure is just a caricature.



I’ll be curious if your right about the democrats rallying there are some signs of reflection for why they are losing touch with a lot of swing voters. I hope those are the voices that take root.

As for ‘when I see a bad president, it's usually a bad president’ I feel the same way about myself. I just think you’re seeing a bad president because his political opposition in both parties are using your information channels to shape your perspective against his new style of politicking.When arguements start overtaking smears when you explain your postion I'll beleive you its just weighing in as there are positives and negatives to any president.
Click to expand...


Trying to pretend that the making fun of handicapped thing is manufactured classic right-wing Idaho bunker stuff
 
Conaeolos said:
The second part of your statement shows why you cannot contextualize the first without it being racist. And no, I am not a birther.

Trump making fun of handicapped people is a manufactured smear. It takes all of one second to find a video showing how it was done. I’d suggest you question political narratives a bit more before think any political figure is just a caricature.



I’ll be curious if your right about the democrats rallying there are some signs of reflection for why they are losing touch with a lot of swing voters. I hope those are the voices that take root.

As for ‘when I see a bad president, it's usually a bad president’ I feel the same way about myself. I just think you’re seeing a bad president because his political opposition in both parties are using your information channels to shape your perspective against his new style of politicking.When arguements start overtaking smears when you explain your postion I'll beleive you its just weighing in as there are positives and negatives to any president.
Click to expand...

Democrats began splintering after Obama won in '08. The Left Wing began becoming purists, who basically would no longer support any Democrat who was not in lockstep with them. To simplify, we can call that the OWS wing of the party. Therefore, Centrists like Hillary could not pull in votes from coffee shop brohs who fell in love with Bernie and then felt cheated when he did not win the nomination. Trump may be curing them of their ideological rigidity.

Bad President: A moron with no self-control who tweets out insults and offends our allies is a problem. A guy so insecure he needs to be stroked by his cabinet and cannot handle even a modicum of dissenting opinion is not acting as a president; he's behaving like a third world dictator. A president who lies, and then gets busted for lying, every time he opens his mouth is clearly not a good president.
 
Perotista said:
The problem with it being a racial thing is Republicans or RW as you call them were also against Bill Clinton when he made the same stance or positions on the issues. I'm sure with a few out there it was a racial thing. But you shouldn't expect an political ideology to do a 180 just because a black is elected instead of a white man. Republicans were against healthcare under Bill Clinton, against it under Obama and so on. It's more of a political party and ideological thing.

It always has been my opinion that those on the left jumped on the racist bandwagon way too often just to accuse those with a different political ideology of being racist. I opposed the ACA, does that make me racist since it was a black man who wanted and sponsored it along with signing it into law? I also opposed Hillary's healthcare plan back in 1993.
Click to expand...

Not all the time. When Obama instituted some polices that were initially proposed by the Republicans, the republicans freaked out. For example, the ACA was based on the proposal that the Cato institute came up with in counter to Clinton's single payer plan in 1992. .. and had been implemented by Romney in Mass.
 
Perotista said:
The problem with it being a racial thing is Republicans or RW as you call them were also against Bill Clinton when he made the same stance or positions on the issues. I'm sure with a few out there it was a racial thing. But you shouldn't expect an political ideology to do a 180 just because a black is elected instead of a white man. Republicans were against healthcare under Bill Clinton, against it under Obama and so on. It's more of a political party and ideological thing.

It always has been my opinion that those on the left jumped on the racist bandwagon way too often just to accuse those with a different political ideology of being racist. I opposed the ACA, does that make me racist since it was a black man who wanted and sponsored it along with signing it into law? I also opposed Hillary's healthcare plan back in 1993.
Click to expand...

When the main RW talking point for well over 4 years was that Obama is not only the "Foodstamp, Affirmative Action President" but also exhibits "Kenyan, anti-colonial behavior," someone really needs to have their head up their ass not to see it as a racial thing. :roll:

Add to that the accusations that he was not born in the US and the emphasis on his middle name, and it becomes a slam dunk.
 
calamity said:
Ok, riddle me this Trump supporters. How the **** am I not supposed to see you all as idiots when you spent the past 8 years telling us Obama was the worst president in the history of the US while you now slobber all over this chronic liar who resides in the White House today? Is it that you prefer orange skin over black? Or maybe you rather have a president with strange looking hair than one with a funny sounding name?

Inquiring minds want to know.
Click to expand...

Maybe many of those folks simply preferred a republicant to a demorat but since that never happens in our POTUS elections it must be a racial issue. ;)
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Maybe many of those folks simply preferred a republicant to a demorat but since that never happens in our POTUS elections it must be a racial issue. ;)
Click to expand...

Post 41 blows that argument away. Sorry.
 
ocean515 said:
Oh boy. Slow day in the hate trump trenches....

]
Click to expand...

Do you ever get the feeling that Trump just does things to mess with these loons?
LOL
 
calamity said:
Post 41 blows that argument away. Sorry.
Click to expand...

Nope, most voters don't even get to present "talking points". Use of media selected nuggets does not show what motivates most voters - it only shows what the media wishes to present.
 
calamity said:
Post 41 blows that argument away. Sorry.
Click to expand...

No it didn't. Not even close. Obama was a Very left president in his entitlement programs and his socialistic healthcare reform. Those ideas are extremely polarizing to conservatives. Obama was president during a hyperpartisan congress, and was not a strong enough man to bridge gaps.

There was undoubtedly people who were against him for racial reasons, but those individuals tend to be against Democrats regardless of race. I do not believe race was the predominant factor in republicans disgust of the man.
 
ModerateRN said:
No it didn't. Not even close. Obama was a Very left president in his entitlement programs and his socialistic healthcare reform. Those ideas are extremely polarizing to conservatives. Obama was president during a hyperpartisan congress, and was not a strong enough man to bridge gaps.

There was undoubtedly people who were against him for racial reasons, but those individuals tend to be against Democrats regardless of race. I do not believe race was the predominant factor in republicans disgust of the man.
Click to expand...

Right, and calling him Foodstamp, Affirmative Action, Kenyan, and Muslim was just business as usual. They call white guys they disagree with that stuff all the time :roll:

Try again.
 
calamity said:
Democrats began splintering after Obama won in '08. The Left Wing began becoming purists, who basically would no longer support any Democrat who was not in lockstep with them. To simplify, we can call that the OWS wing of the party. Therefore, Centrists like Hillary could not pull in votes from coffee shop brohs who fell in love with Bernie and then felt cheated when he did not win the nomination. Trump may be curing them of their ideological rigidity.
Click to expand...
Although I agree Hillary was a centrist when she came on the scene with Bill in the 90s; whether, that was a fair assessment in 2017 not so clear.

Bad President: A moron with no self-control who tweets out insults and offends our allies is a problem. A guy so insecure he needs to be stroked by his cabinet and cannot handle even a modicum of dissenting opinion is not acting as a president; he's behaving like a third world dictator. A president who lies, and then gets busted for lying, every time he opens his mouth is clearly not a good president.
Click to expand...
My point:
Moron - smear
no-self control -smear
who tweets out insults and offends our allies is a problem - a possible argument but one based on a lot of assumptions
insecure - smear
needs to be stroked by his cabinet - smear (a president being positive couldn’t be marketing a brand?)
cannot handle even a modicum of dissenting opinion - smear
not acting as a president - circular opinion
behaving like a third world dictator - total ignorant of third world and a smear
A president who lies - a matter of opinion

How do you honestly expect to understand the governments actions if this much hate and vitriol is all you see?

katzgar said:
Trying to pretend that the making fun of handicapped thing is manufactured classic right-wing Idaho bunker stuff
Click to expand...
Takes maybe a few mins to look up the rebuttal, which we know you haven’t, but if you want to live in an information bubble where this is “factual”…go right ahead. And just be in wonder of all the stupid people who could possibly like a man who makes fun of handicapped people. No smart and caring person could ever support this man. That’s not a good way to breed hate at all.

I’ll give you a hint on this one. The clip out of context looks damning. In context far from.

But you go ahead and claim conspiracy theory and go self congratulate yourself you don’t follow these rumour mills…that breed conspiracy theory. Just don't be suprised when you can't contextualize what is going on around you.
 
Conaeolos said:
Although I agree Hillary was a centrist when she came on the scene with Bill in the 90s; whether, that was a fair assessment in 2017 not so clear.


My point:
Moron - smear
no-self control -smear
who tweets out insults and offends our allies is a problem - a possible argument but one based on a lot of assumptions
insecure - smear
needs to be stroked by his cabinet - smear (a president being positive couldn’t be marketing a brand?)
cannot handle even a modicum of dissenting opinion - smear
not acting as a president - circular opinion
behaving like a third world dictator - total ignorant of third world and a smear
A president who lies - a matter of opinion

How do you honestly expect to understand the governments actions if this much hate and vitriol is all you see?


Takes maybe a few mins to look up the rebuttal, which we know you haven’t, but if you want to live in an information bubble where this is “factual”…go right ahead. And just be in wonder of all the stupid people who could possibly like a man who makes fun of handicapped people. No smart and caring person could ever support this man. That’s not a good way to breed hate at all.

I’ll give you a hint on this one. The clip out of context looks damning. In context far from.

But you go ahead and claim conspiracy theory and go self congratulate yourself you don’t follow these rumour mills…that breed conspiracy theory. Just don't be suprised when you can't contextualize what is going on around you.
Click to expand...

Trump is a smear....like a skid on a pair of week old underwear.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom