• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

FD-291 FBI Employment Agreement

What classified information did James Comey disclose, exactly?
 
rule 2 and 3

The memos are property of the USA and not his to give to a friend to give to a reporter

And I am sure the friend and reporter were not an authorized recipient
 
Last edited:
volsrock said:
rule 2 and 3

The memos are property of the USA and not his to give to a friend to give to a reporter

And I am sure the friend and reporter were not an authorized recipient
Click to expand...

But the big point you are missing is Comey was no longer in employment of the FBI when he gave the memo to the prof at Columbia Univ.

Your OP is a big fail!
 
EnigmaO01 said:
But the big point you are missing is Comey was no longer in employment of the FBI when he gave the memo to the reporter (actually not reporter but a professor at Columbia Univ.).

Your OP is a big fail!
Click to expand...

See rule 2

surrender ALL materials upon my separation from the FBI

He didnt he gave them to a professor who gave to a reporter
 
Last edited:
volsrock said:
rule 2 and 3

The memos are property of the USA and not his to give to a friend to give to a reporter

And I am sure the friend and reporter were not an authorized recipient
Click to expand...

The memos Comey made were not classified information, nor was the information gathered in them acquired through the use of other classified documents or methods the FBI has at their disposal. A memo isn't always a classified document.
 
CMPancake said:
The memos Comey made were not classified information, nor was the information gathered in them acquired through the use of other classified documents or methods the FBI has at their disposal. A memo isn't always a classified document.
Click to expand...

rule 2 and 3 says nothing about classified information...it says ANY and ALL information
 
volsrock said:
rule 2 and 3 says nothing about classified information...it says ANY and ALL information
Click to expand...

That's not what those rules say at all. It says all information acquired in connection to official duties and official materials. Those would be classified materials. If you were to ever have had a job requiring any sort of security clearance you'd understand the difference between official material and a memo. If the memo had a classification that read something like UNCLASSIFIED//FOUO you might have a case, because that classification would have meant the memo became a piece of official material the FBI owns. But since it was an unmarked memo, by all legal accounts just a bunch of notes Comey had taken on his interactions with Trump.
 
CMPancake said:
That's not what those rules say at all. It says all information acquired in connection to official duties and official materials. Those would be classified materials. If you were to ever have had a job requiring any sort of security clearance you'd understand the difference between official material and a memo. If the memo had a classification that read something like UNCLASSIFIED//FOUO you might have a case, because that classification would have meant the memo became a piece of official material the FBI owns. But since it was an unmarked memo, by all legal accounts just a bunch of notes Comey had taken on his interactions with Trump.
Click to expand...

So he was not meeting The President Of The United States as the FBI Director while on duties?:lamo

He was on duties and trying to gain info that he hoped would prompt a special investigation, he admitted that
 
Last edited:
CMPancake said:
What classified information did James Comey disclose, exactly?
Click to expand...
The disclosure agreement listed doesnt discuss classified materials...it discusses ALL materials. In reading that I would say Comey violated 1-6. It certainly made him vulnerable to the provisions in 7.
 
volsrock said:
So he was not meeting The President Of The United States as the FBI Director while on duties?:lamo
Click to expand...

Meeting with the President for dinner isn't an official duty of the FBI Director.

volsrock said:
He was on duties and trying to gain info that he hoped would prompt a special investigation, he admitted that
Click to expand...

When was Comey on duties? Where did he say that? As I understand it, Comey created the memos because he was disturbed by Trump's behavior during their interactions. I don't recall or seeing anywhere that Comey was doing this to explicitly target the President.
 
VanceMack said:
The disclosure agreement listed doesnt discuss classified materials...it discusses ALL materials.
Click to expand...

Again, all materials officially owned by the FBI. Each rule within the FD-291 makes it clear it is pertaining to information gathered by the FBI. Which again, would have been given a classification. But seeing as this was Comey's own memo, and wasn't derived from classified information or used classified methods to create the memo it's entirely legal for him to share it with whomever he chooses.


VanceMack said:
In reading that I would say Comey violated 1-6. It certainly made him vulnerable to the provisions in 7.
Click to expand...

Of course you would say that, you're misunderstanding the outlined rules.
 
CMPancake said:
Again, all materials officially owned by the FBI. Each rule within the FD-291 makes it clear it is pertaining to information gathered by the FBI. Which again, would have been given a classification. But seeing as this was Comey's own memo, and wasn't derived from classified information or used classified methods to create the memo it's entirely legal for him to share it with whomever he chooses.




Of course you would say that, you're misunderstanding the outlined rules.
Click to expand...
Woah...dood...you know nothing about the federal government if you believe that. By his own reckoning he created a Memo For Record documenting incidents occurring while he was a federal employee. The moment he created that Memo it became an official document. And handwritten notes, any recorded media notes...all become official documents.

FFS...all you have to do is read the 2nd article to know how stupid your comment sounds.

The point has been made that his saving grace to avoid criminal charges might be that he was already terminated if it is determined that in fact he had not leaked any documents prior to his termination. However he would still be subjected to revocation of security clearance, potential civil actions, etc.

You talking about 'misunderstanding' anything...thats ironic at least.
 
CMPancake said:
Meeting with the President for dinner isn't an official duty of the FBI Director.

When was Comey on duties? Where did he say that? As I understand it, Comey created the memos because he was disturbed by Trump's behavior during their interactions. I don't recall or seeing anywhere that Comey was doing this to explicitly target the President.
Click to expand...

You know better than this. Comey claims Mr. Trump was speaking to him as President of the United States to the Director of the FBI.

First asking for loyalty in office. Second, allegedly asking him to stop the investigation of Flynn.

Moreover, both discussions were clearly done in confidence; not as two citizens eating dinner or chatting after a business meeting, but according to Comey between two officials of the United States government, one being the Chief Executive.

Section 2 and 3 of that OP document pertain to this conversation, and any memorializing of either conversation afterwards would be a confidential document.
 
Last edited:
volsrock said:
rule 2 and 3

The memos are property of the USA and not his to give to a friend to give to a reporter

And I am sure the friend and reporter were not an authorized recipient
Click to expand...


Don't worry...the memos are in the custody of the FBI and part of Comey's file....but they won't be releasing them now that a special council has been appointed...



"But the way Comey went about his disclosure makes it very unlikely that he is subject to any legal or administrative penalty, some legal experts say.

“So long as he ensured the FBI had its own copy of the memos, and so long as the memos were not classified, Mr. Comey’s actions appear to be entirely lawful,” said Brad Moss, a lawyer who specializes in national security and security clearance law....

Comey also shielded himself from any administrative repercussions by making the disclosures orally, Kohn and others said.

Normally when former officials want to release information, they have to run it past the agency in question in what’s known as prepublication review. But oral disclosures are not subject to that process — and Comey was explicit Thursday that he asked Richman to disclose “the content” of the memos, not the memos themselves.

“The New York Times has not viewed a copy of the memo, which is unclassified, but one of Mr. Comey’s associates read parts of it to a Times reporter,” the paper reported on May 16.

There are several criminal and civil statutes that can be triggered for unauthorized disclosures, lawyers say, but none of those appear to apply to Comey...."

Comey followed careful plan in leaking memos | TheHill

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/po...house-panel/HmrsO8hfvsretPbRP4JQ4M/story.html​


Looks like Comey covered all his bases.
 
Last edited:
Captain Adverse said:
You know better than this. Comey claims Mr. Trump was speaking to him as President of the United States to the Director of the FBI.

First asking for loyalty in office. Second, allegedly asking him to stop the investigation of Flynn.

Moreover, both discussions were clearly done in confidence; not as two citizens eating dinner or chatting after a business meeting, but according to Comey between two officials of the United States government, one being the Chief Executive.

Section 2 and 3 of that OP document pertain to this conversation, and any memorializing of either conversation afterwards would be a confidential document.
Click to expand...

It might've been confidential...but Trump waived his executive privilege when he tweeted about their conversations...thereby making himself a "willing witness" and giving Comey the green light to leak his "personal" memos.
 
Last edited:
Moot said:
Don't worry...the memos are in the custody of the FBI and part of Comey's file....but they won't be releasing them now that a special council has been appointed...



"But the way Comey went about his disclosure makes it very unlikely that he is subject to any legal or administrative penalty, some legal experts say.

“So long as he ensured the FBI had its own copy of the memos, and so long as the memos were not classified, Mr. Comey’s actions appear to be entirely lawful,” said Brad Moss, a lawyer who specializes in national security and security clearance law....

Comey also shielded himself from any administrative repercussions by making the disclosures orally, Kohn and others said.

Normally when former officials want to release information, they have to run it past the agency in question in what’s known as prepublication review. But oral disclosures are not subject to that process — and Comey was explicit Thursday that he asked Richman to disclose “the content” of the memos, not the memos themselves.

“The New York Times has not viewed a copy of the memo, which is unclassified, but one of Mr. Comey’s associates read parts of it to a Times reporter,” the paper reported on May 16.

There are several criminal and civil statutes that can be triggered for unauthorized disclosures, lawyers say, but none of those appear to apply to Comey...."

Comey followed careful plan in leaking memos | TheHill

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/po...house-panel/HmrsO8hfvsretPbRP4JQ4M/story.html​


Looks like Comey covered all his bases.
Click to expand...

Did you read your own citations?

From the second article:

Other experts, however, disagree. Jonathan Turley, a professor at George Washington University, contends that Comey could be in hot water because of his leaks.
Click to expand...

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/po...house-panel/HmrsO8hfvsretPbRP4JQ4M/story.html

As for the first article, it states those memos will not be turned over to the Congressional committee, because there is a Special Counsel. This implied that HE will have access to them per HIS investigation.
 
Captain Adverse said:
You know better than this. Comey claims Mr. Trump was speaking to him as President of the United States to the Director of the FBI.
Click to expand...

And? There is no inherent classification or privilege between the POTUS and FBI Director unless explicitly stated otherwise.

Captain Adverse said:
First asking for loyalty in office. Second, allegedly asking him to stop the investigation of Flynn.
Click to expand...

Irrelevant, but just a short aside was that Trump was asking for loyalty in him, not the office from Comey.

Captain Adverse said:
Moreover, both discussions were clearly done in confidence;
Click to expand...

Well then Trump can file a hurt feelings report for Comey breaking that kind of trust. But legally speaking there's no wrongdoing here as the OP is claiming to have happened.

Captain Adverse said:
Section 2 and 3 of that OP document pertain to this conversation, and any memorializing of either conversation afterwards would be a confidential document.
Click to expand...

Except there was nothing confidential about the discussion between Trump and Comey were official. Unless you wish to say that Trump, as POTUS was officially asking the then FBI Director James Comey to end the Flynn investigation?

VanceMack said:
Woah...dood...you know nothing about the federal government if you believe that.
Click to expand...

I know plenty about government documents and official classifications.

VanceMack said:
By his own reckoning he created a Memo For Record documenting incidents occurring while he was a federal employee. The moment he created that Memo it became an official document. And handwritten notes, any recorded media notes...all become official documents.
Click to expand...

They become official documents if they were used for, or pertained to any cases, or investigations. Seeing as the memo Comey had "leaked" was not classified, it was not an official document.

VanceMack said:
FFS...all you have to do is read the 2nd article to know how stupid your comment sounds.
Click to expand...

Noted.

VanceMack said:
The point has been made that his saving grace to avoid criminal charges might be that he was already terminated if it is determined that in fact he had not leaked any documents prior to his termination.
Click to expand...

And this is where it highlights your breathtaking ignorance on the rules and regulations governing the handling of classified information.

If Comey had truly mishandled classified information (which he didn't.) Being fired from the office where he required a security clearance he could, and would be held for criminal charges of mishandling classified information. But seeing as the memo he had leaked lacked a classification, he will not suffer any legal recourse.

VanceMack said:
However he would still be subjected to revocation of security clearance, potential civil actions, etc.
Click to expand...

More ignorant conjecture you pulled out of absolutely no basis in fact.

VanceMack said:
You talking about 'misunderstanding' anything...thats ironic at least.
Click to expand...

You haven't proven that Comey mishandled classified information, or shown that Comey's own memo was an official FBI document.
 
Moot said:
It might've been confidential...but Trump waived his executive privilege when he tweeted about their conversations...thereby making himself a "willing witness" and giving Comey the green light to leak his "personal" memos.
Click to expand...

What law school did you go to?

That has absolutely nothing to do with the OP or my response regarding Comey's possible liability for his actions.

Moreover, what Comey did in revealing this information has nothing to do with "executive privilege."

In the United States government, executive privilege is the power claimed by the President of the United States and other members of the executive branch to resist certain subpoenas and other interventions by the legislative and judicial branches of government to access information and personnel relating to the executive branch.
Click to expand...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_privilege

This discussion has nothing to do with whether or not Trump must testify or provide evidence himself.
 
Last edited:
CMPancake said:
And? There is no inherent classification or privilege between the POTUS and FBI Director unless explicitly stated otherwise.



Irrelevant, but just a short aside was that Trump was asking for loyalty in him, not the office from Comey.



Well then Trump can file a hurt feelings report for Comey breaking that kind of trust. But legally speaking there's no wrongdoing here as the OP is claiming to have happened.



Except there was nothing confidential about the discussion between Trump and Comey were official. Unless you wish to say that Trump, as POTUS was officially asking the then FBI Director James Comey to end the Flynn investigation?



I know plenty about government documents and official classifications.



They become official documents if they were used for, or pertained to any cases, or investigations. Seeing as the memo Comey had "leaked" was not classified, it was not an official document.



Noted.



And this is where it highlights your breathtaking ignorance on the rules and regulations governing the handling of classified information.

If Comey had truly mishandled classified information (which he didn't.) Being fired from the office where he required a security clearance he could, and would be held for criminal charges of mishandling classified information. But seeing as the memo he had leaked lacked a classification, he will not suffer any legal recourse.



More ignorant conjecture you pulled out of absolutely no basis in fact.



You haven't proven that Comey mishandled classified information, or shown that Comey's own memo was an official FBI document.
Click to expand...
You were the one that created the 'classified document' strawman. It has been demonstrated beyond question that the memos he created were official documents created by a government official regarding meetings in an official capacity. You are floundering. I suspect it is because you know how silly you look. Unfortunately, your flailing just makes you look more unhinged. I think you probably are like a lot of people that are took that whole unhinged thing up a notch after Comeys testimony failed to indict Trump or anyone else of anything.
 
VanceMack said:
You were the one that created the 'classified document' strawman.
Click to expand...

It's not a strawman, it's absolutely pertains to the thread. Unwittingly to you, and the OP, the employment agreement Comey agreed to was discussing classified materials.

VanceMack said:
It has been demonstrated beyond question that the memos he created were official documents created by a government official regarding meetings in an official capacity.
Click to expand...

And yet the documents that were released did not have a classification. Which therefor does not follow the same classification rules and regulations for classified documents.


VanceMack said:
You are floundering. I suspect it is because you know how silly you look.
Click to expand...

Boring, and baseless ad homs.

VanceMack said:
Unfortunately, your flailing just makes you look more unhinged.
Click to expand...

More boring, baseless ad homs from the resident ragaholic (that would be an ad hom.)

VanceMack said:
I think you probably are like a lot of people that are took that whole unhinged thing up a notch after Comeys testimony failed to indict Trump or anyone else of anything.
Click to expand...

Yawn. How did you manage to write a paragraph that managed to say nothing?
 
Captain Adverse said:
Did you read your own citations? ...

As for the first article, it states those memos will not be turned over to the Congressional committee, because there is a Special Counsel. This implied that HE will have access to them per HIS investigation.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/po...house-panel/HmrsO8hfvsretPbRP4JQ4M/story.html
Click to expand...

Yes, I read them...did you? It says that the FBI will not be releasing the memos because a special council has been appointed....just like I said.

Rep. Jason Chaffetz, R-Utah, says in an interview on CNN that the FBI sent his committee’s staff a two-sentence email saying it would not be turning over the materials now that the Justice Department has appointed a special counsel...
Click to expand...
Mueller has already been briefed on the memos.


From the second article:

Other experts, however, disagree. Jonathan Turley, a professor at George Washington University, contends that Comey could be in hot water because of his leaks.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Turley's opinion is in the minority. Most experts seem to think that as a private citizen..Comey's memos are little more than personal opinion about a unclassified matter. In fact, as long as it doesn't jeopardize national security...he is free to write a book about it if he wants to.
 
Last edited:
CMPancake said:
It's not a strawman, it's absolutely pertains to the thread. Unwittingly to you, and the OP, the employment agreement Comey agreed to was discussing classified materials.



And yet the documents that were released did not have a classification. Which therefor does not follow the same classification rules and regulations for classified documents.




Boring, and baseless ad homs.



More boring, baseless ad homs from the resident ragaholic (that would be an ad hom.)



Yawn. How did you manage to write a paragraph that managed to say nothing?
Click to expand...
The employment agreement did not specify classified materials. Why do you insist on lying?
 
VanceMack said:
The employment agreement did not specify classified materials. Why do you insist on lying?
Click to expand...

Except it does: In the very next page of the PDF, it defines the prohibited disclosures. So either you didn't read the entire PDF, or you're making a dishonest attempt to misinterpret the rules, or both.
 
AND HE ADMITTED HIS INTENT.

Which was to alter the direction of an Investigation by attempting to influence it by having an Independent Counsel assigned through illegally leaking 'privileged information'.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom