Circa.com Obtain declassified Docs which expose Crimes Re. Russian-Collusion Issue.

Re: Circa.com Obtain declassified Docs which expose Crimes Re. Russian-Collusion Issu

ModerateGOP said:

I can't do it again. Just too much stupid. Why are you pulling quotes out of thin air from other sites? You want people to care about this a little too much.

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Takes courage to question your own bias. The NSA did admit to multiple violations of FISA minimization standards in upstream searches and they under reported those violations to FISA. Upstream searches on American citizens trippled after Obama started to relax the rules back in 2011. FISA said this was a serious 4rth amendment issue and the ACLU said that these violations are some of the worst ever documented.

You claim Obama's NSA had issues ? Susan Rice said the intel community was being closely monitored to prevent abuses and that the unmaskings were legal. Not so, according to the report. There's actual evidence, no the NSA admitted to this and its being ignored in favor of Russian collusion conspiracy theories that yet to produce any evidence at all.

I guarantee this is not going to go away anytime soon

Re: Circa.com Obtain declassified Docs which expose Crimes Re. Russian-Collusion Issu

Fenton said:

Takes courage to question your own bias. The NSA did admit to multiple violations of FISA minimization standards in upstream searches and they under reported those violations to FISA. Upstream searches on American citizens trippled after Obama started to relax the rules back in 2011. FISA said this was a serious 4rth amendment issue and the ACLU said that these violations are some of the worst ever documented.

You claim Obama's NSA had issues ? Susan Rice said the intel community was being closely monitored to prevent abuses and that the unmaskings were legal. Not so, according to the report. There's actual evidence, no the NSA admitted to this and its being ignored in favor of Russian collusion conspiracy theories that yet to produce any evidence at all.

I guarantee this is not going to go away anytime soon

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I have no bias in this regard. I agree the NSA has had problems, but this so-called report isn't the smoking gun you or President Trump would like the rest of the world to believe. This story has no legs, and it never had. Hence why the OP has to imagine conversations with other posters not even on this site to get three pages worth of fake people talking about it.

Re: Circa.com Obtain declassified Docs which expose Crimes Re. Russian-Collusion Issu

ModerateGOP said:

I have no bias in this regard. I agree the NSA has had problems, but this so-called report isn't the smoking gun you or President Trump would like the rest of the world to believe. This story has no legs, and it never had. Hence why the OP has to imagine conversations with other posters not even on this site to get three pages worth of fake people talking about it.

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Thats not up to you or anyone else to determine, is it ??

Barack Obama's team secretly disclosed years of illegal NSA searches spying on Americans | Circa News - Learn. Think. Do.

Circa has reported that there was a three-fold increase in NSA data searches about Americans and a rise in the unmasking of U.S. person’s identities in intelligence reports after Obama loosened the privacy rules in 2011.

Officials like former National Security Adviser Susan Rice have argued their activities were legal under the so-called minimization rule changes Obama made, and that the intelligence agencies were strictly monitored to avoid abuses.

“Since 2011, NSA’s minimization procedures have prohibited use of U.S.-person identifiers to query the results of upstream Internet collections under Section 702,” the unsealed court ruling declared. “The Oct. 26, 2016 notice informed the court that NSA analysts had been conducting such queries inviolation of that prohibition, with much greater frequency than had been previously disclosed to the Court.”

The American Civil Liberties Union said the newly disclosed violations are some of the most serious to ever be documented and strongly call into question the U.S. intelligence community’s ability to police itself and safeguard American’s privacy as guaranteed by the Constitution’s Fourth Amendment protections against unlawful search and seizure.

Re: Circa.com Obtain declassified Docs which expose Crimes Re. Russian-Collusion Issu

Fenton said:

Thats not up to you or anyone else to determine, is it ??

Barack Obama's team secretly disclosed years of illegal NSA searches spying on Americans | Circa News - Learn. Think. Do.

Circa has reported that there was a three-fold increase in NSA data searches about Americans and a rise in the unmasking of U.S. person’s identities in intelligence reports after Obama loosened the privacy rules in 2011.

Officials like former National Security Adviser Susan Rice have argued their activities were legal under the so-called minimization rule changes Obama made, and that the intelligence agencies were strictly monitored to avoid abuses.

“Since 2011, NSA’s minimization procedures have prohibited use of U.S.-person identifiers to query the results of upstream Internet collections under Section 702,” the unsealed court ruling declared. “The Oct. 26, 2016 notice informed the court that NSA analysts had been conducting such queries inviolation of that prohibition, with much greater frequency than had been previously disclosed to the Court.”

The American Civil Liberties Union said the newly disclosed violations are some of the most serious to ever be documented and strongly call into question the U.S. intelligence community’s ability to police itself and safeguard American’s privacy as guaranteed by the Constitution’s Fourth Amendment protections against unlawful search and seizure.

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You can copy and paste all you want, but no one cares about Circa News, Washington Times spinoff. At least they learned how to do some graphic overalls. They still need professional help where journalistic standards are concerned.

Re: Circa.com Obtain declassified Docs which expose Crimes Re. Russian-Collusion Issu

ModerateGOP said:

You can copy and paste all you want, but no one cares about Circa News, Washington Times spinoff. At least they learned how to do some graphic overalls. They still need professional help where journalistic standards are concerned.

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Why do they need graphic overalls when they post stories like that ?? And their journalistic standards are fine. That story has been posted on this forums and others for a while now, and no one has been able to debunk it or prove its " fake news ". People have attacked the source quite a bit but thats about it.

We were told the unmasking was legal by Susan Rice just recently. Well, it wasn't legal at all and it was multiple vioaltions that were initally under reported.

Now what would be the motive for a Intel agency to illegally unmask many American citizens picked up in upstream searches and then lie to FISA about it ? Its a rhetorical question, the motive is obvious.

Re: Circa.com Obtain declassified Docs which expose Crimes Re. Russian-Collusion Issu

Fenton said:

Why do they need graphic overalls when they post stories like that ?? And their journalistic standards are fine. That story has been posted on this forums and others for a while now, and no one has been able to debunk it or prove its " fake news ". People have attacked the source quite a bit but thats about it.

We were told the unmasking was legal by Susan Rice just recently. Well, it wasn't legal at all and it was multiple vioaltions that were initally under reported.

Now what would be the motive for a Intel agency to illegally unmask many American citizens picked up in upstream searches and then lie to FISA about it ? Its a rhetorical question, the motive is obvious.

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The guy who wrote this article came over from the Washington Times. If you don't know how nutty the Washington Times is, I can't help you there.

Re: Circa.com Obtain declassified Docs which expose Crimes Re. Russian-Collusion Issu

ModerateGOP said:

The guy who wrote this article came over from the Washington Times. If you don't know how nutty the Washington Times is, I can't help you there.

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I know you will admit to shooting the messnger " often ", ( you just made a thread about it ) but that doesn't mean its now or was ever a effective way of remaining objective and well informed on the issues. Its a literary metaphor that describes a emotional response to news that challenges your bias and its why its typically looked down on in debate forums or anywhere else for that matter.

You can chose to either be informed and objective, choosing truth over ideology and partisan agenda, or you can continue to hear and read only what confirms your bias and remain uninformed. Your choice.

Re: Circa.com Obtain declassified Docs which expose Crimes Re. Russian-Collusion Issu

ModerateGOP said:

The guy who wrote this article came over from the Washington Times. If you don't know how nutty the Washington Times is, I can't help you there.

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Attacking the source is a form of ad hominem, aka a logical fallacy, which is used to try and knockdown an argument by claiming the source is unreliable rather than refuting it.

Fyi in a debate world, attacking the source rather than the content is like just admitting you lost the argument, if what was inside was wrong prove it wrong, or how about we just get another source, will they be wrong too, will the only source you accept be the only source who refuses to cover it because it is highly biased towards your side.

Re: Circa.com Obtain declassified Docs which expose Crimes Re. Russian-Collusion Issu

ModerateGOP said:

You can copy and paste all you want, but no one cares about Circa News, Washington Times spinoff. At least they learned how to do some graphic overalls. They still need professional help where journalistic standards are concerned.

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You don't care about constitutional violations, gotcha. It's OK...a lot of people don't care about the Constitution these days.

Re: Circa.com Obtain declassified Docs which expose Crimes Re. Russian-Collusion Issu

Fishking said:

You don't care about constitutional violations, gotcha. It's OK...a lot of people don't care about the Constitution these days.

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It was John Yoo that made it fashionable. He seemed to think it only got in the way of the War on Terror.

Re: Circa.com Obtain declassified Docs which expose Crimes Re. Russian-Collusion Issu

<alt>doxygen said:

It was John Yoo that made it fashionable. He seemed to think it only got in the way of the War on Terror.

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Or the War on Drugs before that or w/e was popular to ignore before that. There's also asset forfeiture, gay marriage ban, Jim Crow laws in the past, ect. ect. There is a reason the saying, "Rules are made to be broken." As soon as there is a rule made there is someone who is looking to get around it.

Re: Circa.com Obtain declassified Docs which expose Crimes Re. Russian-Collusion Issu

Fenton said:

Takes courage to question your own bias. The NSA did admit to multiple violations of FISA minimization standards in upstream searches and they under reported those violations to FISA. Upstream searches on American citizens trippled after Obama started to relax the rules back in 2011. FISA said this was a serious 4rth amendment issue and the ACLU said that these violations are some of the worst ever documented.

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You can read the The FISA court opinion right here.

You claim Obama's NSA had issues ? Susan Rice said the intel community was being closely monitored to prevent abuses and that the unmaskings were legal. Not so, according to the report. There's actual evidence, no the NSA admitted to this and its being ignored in favor of Russian collusion conspiracy theories that yet to produce any evidence at all.

I guarantee this is not going to go away anytime soon

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We can only hope so.

If it doesn't the 4th and 5th and 6th (I think) amendments, constitutional rights, may very well evaporate and be further violated, reduced, and / or eliminated by the overly large, overly imposing and interfering government.

Hmm. Seems that many on the right side of the spectrum have been warning about that for quite some time.

Re: Circa.com Obtain declassified Docs which expose Crimes Re. Russian-Collusion Issu

beerftw said:

Attacking the source is a form of ad hominem, aka a logical fallacy, which is used to try and knockdown an argument by claiming the source is unreliable rather than refuting it.

Fyi in a debate world, attacking the source rather than the content is like just admitting you lost the argument, if what was inside was wrong prove it wrong, or how about we just get another source, will they be wrong too, will the only source you accept be the only source who refuses to cover it because it is highly biased towards your side.

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It's not biased towards my side. My side is I wish the NSA was run better, and that this isn't a smoking gun. I have no side here, but when the author basically ran the Washington Times, and is now operating on this site. I question it. It would be the same if Alex Jones suddenly started posting at NBC.