The comey memo and double standards from mainstream media[W:6]

Re: The comey memo and double standards from mainstream media

calamity said:

Your comment reflects a flaw in understanding. Journalism is not like prosecuting someone in a criminal trial. All that is needed to write a piece on a public figure is absence of malice. Hearsay, undisclosed sources, educated guesses, even having an ax to grind are acceptable. What is not acceptable is slandering a non-public figure, like what Sean did to that Seth Rich person, who was a private citizen.

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The members of the Society of Professional Journalists say otherwise.

Re: The comey memo and double standards from mainstream media

Kal'Stang said:

And until such time as they are produced why should we take anyones word that they do exist? That what is in them is being reported correctly? Until such time as they are produced then why is the media covering them as being factual when they haven't even seen it for themselves? Why not mark the story as being speculative instead? Which would reflect reality far more accurately?

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Feel free to believe they are a concoction.

I'm telling you they do. It's long been known Comey takes fastidious & copious notes and writes these memo's as part of investigations for a long, long time.

But again, if it makes the world a better place for you to imagine it's an imagination, gopher it.

You'll find out soon enough. Rest assured.

Re: The comey memo and double standards from mainstream media

Kal'Stang said:

Yeah, there is that possibility. We really have no way of knowing if that happened in real time. Which is why we need to have some trust in our news media. We depend on it to be factual. And when we see something wrong with the reporting then we need to call them out on it. That is about the best that we can do. Like I said I'd have no problem with the reporting of the Comey memo's even without the actual memo if they just reported it as speculation. But they're not. They're reporting it as factual. As definitely having been said in that memo. Without knowing the context of what is fully in the memo, nothing.

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Unfortunately modern journalism is deystroying the reputation built for them by theor predecessors.

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Re: The comey memo and double standards from mainstream media

Mach said:

I clicked on the video and it was some guy skateboarding in slow mo. Really, this is the "opposition" to mainstream media? Some skater on youtube?
Russian intelligence operations in the U.S. compromising us likely all the way to the presidency (direct or indirect makes no difference), and this is the defense?

I'd rather see a salient post by Kal-Stang that listed let's say, 4 bullet points about "why the mainstream media is bad/wrong". Then it could be debated reasonably.

Foreshadowing, following the money trail and intelligence in regards to long standing Russian intelligence operations on our own soil has been reported over and over and ****ing OVER, to take possibly YEARS. YEARS. Not first 100 days goofballs. Maybe some rural have-nots like to gather up a posse, don some masks and grab a torch, and set out to set administer sum real southern justice...but as it turns out, the big boys and girls (you may call them deep state, ie. career, employed, professionals...stings don't it?), work to do things the right way.

Russia knows how to conduct itself in such operations, it knows how to use third parties and shell companies and blackmail that can't be traced, etc., etc., etc. And at the end, they are simply trying to influence and destabilize...I'd say the proof is kind of obvious, they succeeded. They are not runn'n moonshine and leaving tire tracks and cigarette butts like you use to love watching on Dukes of Hazard. What "hard evidence" would be just laying out there? An email?

Putin: Trump, we want all your base
Trump: Working on it Heir-Putin, give me a few more months.

Then again, why would we expect a reasonable critique of anything, when they elected Trump in the first place. Simple is as simple does.

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Did you even listen to what the guy in the video said or did you just stop watching because it was some "sk8tr boi"? And if you read the thread I've been making points through out.

No one in this thread is disputing Russia, its capabilities or anything like that. This thread isn't even about them. Its about how the media has been portraying speculation as facts. Hearsay as facts. Which is all on the news media, not Russia as Russia does not control the US News Media. Try and stick to the topic Ok?

Re: The comey memo and double standards from mainstream media

Paperview said:

1st: I really hate those stupid amateur video "casts" of bubble-headed gibbons attempting to man-in-the-street 'splain it all & reward the confirmation bias, so I don't watch them, and I don't know why anyone would. Frankly, they are stupid, IMO.

2. It's a strange to take -- thinking these memo's don't exist, are made up, cannot be confirmed as to their datestamps, and waa! Why haven't we seen them yet.

3. They do, they can be confirmed, and they will be produced, and testified to. Mark it.

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Eell ehen they are confirmed they can be reported as facts not before.

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Re: The comey memo and double standards from mainstream media

calamity said:

Fact: high ranking officials said X.

See how that works? Hearsay is fact. Someone said something that they claim they heard. And, it was then reported that they said it. I see no problem with that.

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Person A allegedly wrote that they heard person B say X, Y and Z. Person ? later told a reporter that they saw Y in a memo allegedly written by A - headline says Person B said Y (taken out of context?) to person A. The truth is that an unnamed source claims to have seen a memo allegedly written by A that states that, among other things, B said Y.

You may remember the "factual" 911 recorded content as portrayed by MSNBC of (racist) Zimmerman appearing to assert to the police dispatcher that Martin was suspicious because "he's staring into windows - he's black". Of course, that "fact" required omitting the dispatcher separately asking about Martin's race and stringing together the Zimmerman response to "what is he doing to arouse suspicion?" and the response to (the edited out) "what is his race?".

Re: The comey memo and double standards from mainstream media

Mach said:

I clicked on the video and it was some guy skateboarding in slow mo. Really, this is the "opposition" to mainstream media? Some skater on youtube?
Russian intelligence operations in the U.S. compromising us likely all the way to the presidency (direct or indirect makes no difference), and this is the defense?

I'd rather see a salient post by Kal-Stang that listed let's say, 4 bullet points about "why the mainstream media is bad/wrong". Then it could be debated reasonably.

Foreshadowing, following the money trail and intelligence in regards to long standing Russian intelligence operations on our own soil has been reported over and over and ****ing OVER, to take possibly YEARS. YEARS. Not first 100 days goofballs. Maybe some rural have-nots like to gather up a posse, don some masks and grab a torch, and set out to set administer sum real southern justice...but as it turns out, the big boys and girls (you may call them deep state, ie. career, employed, professionals...stings don't it?), work to do things the right way.

Russia knows how to conduct itself in such operations, it knows how to use third parties and shell companies and blackmail that can't be traced, etc., etc., etc. And at the end, they are simply trying to influence and destabilize...I'd say the proof is kind of obvious, they succeeded. They are not runn'n moonshine and leaving tire tracks and cigarette butts like you use to love watching on Dukes of Hazard. What "hard evidence" would be just laying out there? An email?

Putin: Trump, we want all your base
Trump: Working on it Heir-Putin, give me a few more months.

Then again, why would we expect a reasonable critique of anything, when they elected Trump in the first place. Simple is as simple does.

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Any 'success' he Russians had was due entirely to the left blowing it out of proportion. The 'destabilization' is due 100% to liberals lying about collusion. It is the left who are intentionally destabilizing the Trump administration and are using the Russian hacks as cover.

Re: The comey memo and double standards from mainstream media

Paperview said:

Feel free to believe they are a concoction.

I'm telling you they do. It's long been known Comey takes fastidious & copious notes and writes these memo's as part of investigations for a long, long time.

But again, if it makes the world a better place for you to imagine it's an imagination, gopher it.

You'll find out soon enough. Rest assured.

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That Comey wrote memo's and notes is not in dispute. What IS in dispute is what one particular memo said. It's in dispute because it has not been verified by any reliable source. Even the news media has not seen it.

When the birtherism regarding Obama came about I ended up defending Obama, even before he released his birth certificate. Want to know why? Because I personally verified the laws at the time. I understood that someone born to an American Citizen is considered an American citizen. Even if they're born in another country, which obviously Obama wasn't, but was instead born in America.

Verification is what this is about. What the Comey memo says has not been verified by anyone. The fact that the media has not verified it, but instead has reported it as being factual, instead of speculation, is what I am talking about. And this translate into many other types of issues. Trump supposedly yelling at and hanging up on Australia's PM. Which the PM later came out and denied. Trumps supposed threatening of an invasion of Mexico to the President of Mexico, which again, was denied by the President of Mexico. And many other examples can be named where the press reported something as factual, when it was nothing more than speculation, and actually ended up as false in some cases.

Speculation vs Fact. Reporting as fact vs reporting as speculation. It makes a HUGE difference on whether a media outlet can be trusted. It also defines what is considered News, and what is considered as tabloid trash.

Re: The comey memo and double standards from mainstream media

Cigar said:

Wasn't a problem during the last 8 years, why is it now?

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Provide some examples of the msm doing that please

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Re: The comey memo and double standards from mainstream media

ttwtt78640 said:

Using the "logic" that there is little (no?) difference between seeing a written document and hearing (a rumor?) of its content makes no sense. The fact that counterfeiting is possible does not make me trust your check as much as your cash.

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Why would you trust either, if the person presenting it is a known, frequent, con-artist and forger?

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Time for me to go. Will respond to further posts later. Got some work to do for my dad. ttyl.

Re: The comey memo and double standards from mainstream media

Kal'Stang said:

That Comey wrote memo's and notes is not in dispute. What IS in dispute is what one particular memo said. It's in dispute because it has not been verified by any reliable source. Even the news media has not seen it.

When the birtherism regarding Obama came about I ended up defending Obama, even before he released his birth certificate. Want to know why? Because I personally verified the laws at the time. I understood that someone born to an American Citizen is considered an American citizen. Even if they're born in another country, which obviously Obama wasn't, but was instead born in America.

Verification is what this is about. What the Comey memo says has not been verified by anyone. The fact that the media has not verified it, but instead has reported it as being factual, instead of speculation, is what I am talking about. And this translate into many other types of issues. Trump supposedly yelling at and hanging up on Australia's PM. Which the PM later came out and denied. Trumps supposed threatening of an invasion of Mexico to the President of Mexico, which again, was denied by the President of Mexico. And many other examples can be named where the press reported something as factual, when it was nothing more than speculation, and actually ended up as false in some cases.

Speculation vs Fact. Reporting as fact vs reporting as speculation. It makes a HUGE difference on whether a media outlet can be trusted. It also defines what is considered News, and what is considered as tabloid trash.

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What will end up being in the memo, is what ever the situation demands be in the Memo, to destroy the President.

Just like what ever instructions we needed to be in the paper orders on the battle field, would end up being exactly what was printed on the paper.

Paper can be faked.

You cannot trust the paper one ink dot more than the person or person's who have been carrying the paper.

In this case, the people with the Paper are proven corrupt and agendized...so the paper is worthless.

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Re: The comey memo and double standards from mainstream media

Kal'Stang said:

Did you even listen to what the guy in the video said or did you just stop watching because it was some "sk8tr boi"? And if you read the thread I've been making points through out.

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I got past the skateboard, but then it was some guy with a beanie on using youtube talk (today I'm going to be ranting about...), I deemed him not worth my time. As I said, I'd rather you accompany it with your own highlights from it. Just a suggestion.

Kal: No one in this thread is disputing Russia, its capabilities or anything like that. This thread isn't even about them. Its about how the media has been portraying speculation as facts. Hearsay as facts. Which is all on the news media, not Russia as Russia does not control the US News Media. Try and stick to the topic Ok?

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I believe you are wrong about that.

Kal: All that I want about any of these things is proof. Give me proof, not assumptions, and I'll gladly join ya if what is said is proved to be true.

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That, above, from your post, is what I'm responding to.

It's on FOX news 24/7, every 2nd stringer they trot out, often with unbrushed hair and dubious credentials, where is the proof! They say.
I mean, if we had proof, then we'd be on board!

If we had proof in the public, the case would be over. The have a mountain of circumstantial evidence, at least 3-4 plausible motivations (or any combination thereof), from both Russia and the Trump campaign, and it appears other members of the GOP. They are then, investigating it.

Trump, in his infinite wisdom and skill, nearly every single week, insists on doing, saying, and ordering things, that ADD to that mountain of circumstantial evidence. That ADD to the affirmation of most of those motives. It's unprecedented. You'd think they'd go radio silent on the issue and let the investigation continue, but then he's a showboat isn't he?

This idea of "we need proof to think this investigation is credible", is absurdity. You won't be getting "proof" as presented to the public, on matters of foreign adversaries intelligence operations into our election and what ties they have to the white house, until they are done. What do you think they investigate FOR....fun? Or actionable evidence (and to uncover the entire story)?

If they are investigating FOR evidence, why are you insisting it's reasonable to be outraged that you personally don't have evidence of this? Especially given the mountain of circumstantial evidence and motives that are in the news 24/7 that you surely have not missed?

Re: The comey memo and double standards from mainstream media

Kal'Stang said:

Whether its false or not dependent on their being an actual memo which the NYT reporter says is there. But we don't know if its actually there. At least not as described by the NYT reporter. The main criticism is the the "false reporting" isn't in whether there is proof or not, its in that the NYT reporter, and other news agencies since, have claimed that it is factual without having read the memo themselves or anything else reliable. Until such time as that memo is produced it is only speculation. Which is why the person in the video in the OP is saying that is false. They're reporting something as factual, when all it really is, is speculation. Reporting something as factual, when it has not been confirmed as being factual, can be considered as false reporting.

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The reporter "says it is there" based on his source and he reports that it is based on his source. This is how news journalism works in the 99.9 percent of cases when the reporter is not himself an eyewitness to the story he is reporting. This is how there was a Watergate expose and a zillion other revelations of matters in the public interest. Another point to keep in mind about the Times is that it would not accept just anyone as a source. This was not some guy making an anonymous call from a phone booth. The source was trusted.

Re: The comey memo and double standards from mainstream media

Fletch said:

Any 'success' he Russians had was due entirely to the left blowing it out of proportion. The 'destabilization' is due 100% to liberals lying about collusion. It is the left who are intentionally destabilizing the Trump administration and are using the Russian hacks as cover.

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Oh please. Throw a dart.

So Flynn lying was the liberals fault?
So Trump tweeting is the liberals fault?
Russian meddling in the election is liberals fault? (Well, Putin also hated HRC!)

You present nothing. Meanwhile the MSM has so much to present bad on the Trump WH that they have to prioritize it all every day. There hasn't been a slow news days since he took office.

Re: The comey memo and double standards from mainstream media



The hypocrisy is on full display. its laughable that every Friday two 'news' agencies drop stories from 'anonymous sources' that have to date consistently been proven to be unreliable and often an outright lie, yet the left trips over themselves shrieking EVIDENCE! SCREEEEE!!!!" Oh...its evidence alright. Evidence of how desperate people are to affirm their already cemented bias. We saw it again on display this last week...a regurgitated 'story' about a republican in Florida who saw damning democrat emails posted by Gucipher and said...love it...lets see more...and leftists shriek Seeeeeee??? COLLUSION!!!

There is absolutely a double standard, both in the media and among partisans. Most conservatives I know say pretty much the same thing. Look...to date there is no evidence of collusion between Trump and Russia. But go ahead and have the investigation and if it turns out there WAS collusions between Trump and Russia to fix the election? Then...game on. Leftist on the other hand are shrieking Collusion! We know it! We dont care that every democrat is admitting it doesnt exist..we just KNOW it exists!

Someone mentioned Benghazi. Good point. During the Benghazi hearings leftists shrieked There is nothing to see here! Dont worry about the fact that 33,000 subpoenaed emails were deleted, blocked, hid, still havent been released from the state department, or that no one seems to be able to answer direct and straightforward questions about the chain of events. And since no one has answered then there must be nothing to see here! And maybe they are right. But since an email server was destroyed, physical evidence was destroyed, 6 blackberries were destroyed, laptops were seized and then destroyed, people that could give answers were given immunity then refused to testify, no one has provided any answers, how can we know?

Re: The comey memo and double standards from mainstream media

Mach said:

Oh please. Throw a dart.

So Flynn lying was the liberals fault?
So Trump tweeting is the liberals fault?
Russian meddling in the election is liberals fault? (Well, Putin also hated HRC!)

You present nothing. Meanwhile the MSM has so much to present bad on the Trump WH that they have to prioritize it all every day. There hasn't been a slow news days since he took office.

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None of what you just posted in any way contradicts what I said.

Re: The comey memo and double standards from mainstream media

Kal'Stang said:

Let me ask you this Calamity, what is the difference between a tabloid and an actual reliable news media?

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Better sources.

Re: The comey memo and double standards from mainstream media

RetiredUSN said:

The members of the Society of Professional Journalists say otherwise.

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Well, they've never encountered an administration that appointed a traitor to lead the NSA, and made the president's son in law, whose brother was in Moscow during the start of the presidential campaign while he himself was in communication with Russian agents, his top adviser. New territory requires new rules.

Besides, Trump picked all these fights when he put that sign on his forehead reading, "just try to stop me."

Re: The comey memo and double standards from mainstream media

Mach said:

Oh please. Throw a dart.

So Flynn lying was the liberals fault?
So Trump tweeting is the liberals fault?
Russian meddling in the election is liberals fault? (Well, Putin also hated HRC!)

You present nothing. Meanwhile the MSM has so much to present bad on the Trump WH that they have to prioritize it all every day. There hasn't been a slow news days since he took office.

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What evidence do you have that Flynn colluded with he Russians to fix the election? What evidence do you have that Trump colluded with Russia to fix the election? For that matter...what evidence do you have that Russia hacked the DNC servers (kinda tough to have evidence when the DNC contracts a firm in the UKRAINE FFS to 'inspect' the servers and then gives that data to the FBI to 'analyze').

Re: The comey memo and double standards from mainstream media

Mach said:

It's on FOX news 24/7, every 2nd stringer they trot out, often with unbrushed hair and dubious credentials, where is the proof! They say.

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What you point out here is exactly why Fox News is more credible than the MSM.

1. Image is irrelevant to experience unless you're searching for "infotainment".

2. Fox news uses named individuals with actual backgrounnds and can be verified.

The MSM uses "unnamed sources". You can say a Fox News expert has dubious credentials, but at least they have a name and credentials.

What's the name of the person who read the memos supposedly written by James Comey? What is that person's expertise?

What's the name of the "anonymous source" who said that Trump's economic policies with Mexico is harmful? What's their expertise?

Can it even be confirmed that these people even exist? This is why the MSM is increasingly being rejected as fake news. You can piss and moan about Fox all you want but you've already acknowledged that they use named sources who have credentials to speak on the topics at hand, however dubiousness of said credentials.

Re: The comey memo and double standards from mainstream media

Cigar said:

This is fun, I wonder what excuse Trump Supporters will use when the Taxes and Finance Records are exposed.

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Lol !! :lamo :lamo

You people wanted a Special Prosecutor and you got one. You even celebrated without realizing that a SP is a double edged sword. There's no way in hell they're going to leak his tax returns when there's a ongoing SP investigation. That would undermine the investigation, and its just not going to happen

The SP may subpoena his tax returns, but you'll never see them and neither will MSNBC or CNN. The SP basically muzzled the Left and mitigated the leaks and it made sure that tax return never sees the light of day. :lamo...SP investigations can last months, years even. When did Congress appoint a Special Council for Clinton ? 1994 ? And the Star report was released in 1998 ?

Whats really cool about a SP is now we know that any information thats leaked and thats relevant to the investigation prior to the investigations conclusion is either going to be fake news made up bull ****,( most likely scenario ) or real in which it would undermine the investigation

Re: The comey memo and double standards from mainstream media

reinoe said:

What you point out here is exactly why Fox News is more credible than the MSM.

1. Image is irrelevant to experience unless you're searching for "infotainment".

2. Fox news uses named individuals with actual backgrounnds and can be verified.

...

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I stopped there.

My gods man. Did you actually type that with a straight face?

Holy gwauck!

Re: The comey memo and double standards from mainstream media

Paperview said:

I stopped there.

My gods man. Did you actually type that with a straight face?

Holy gwauck!

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I see you're quite comfortable not knowing what you're talking about. Good job confirmed stereotypes.

Re: The comey memo and double standards from mainstream media

Yes, ladies and gents -- he actually *did* type that with a straight face.

:lamo