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Ben Carson: Poverty Is a 'State of Mind'

justabubba

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Housing and Urban Development Secretary Ben Carson called poverty a "state of mind" that children learn from their parents at a young age during a recent interview."I think poverty to a large extent is also a state of mind. You take somebody that has the right mindset, you can take everything from them and put them on the street, and I guarantee in a little while they'll be right back up there," Carson said during an interview on SiriusXM Radio that will air Wednesday night, according to the Washington Post.

"And you take somebody with the wrong mindset, you can give them everything in the world, they'll work their way right back down to the bottom," Carson added. ...
Ben Carson: Poverty Is a '''State of Mind''' | Time.com

many are castigating Carson, insisting his comment was a faux pas. they insist that a man who was raised in poverty as a child does not properly exhibit a valid understanding of poverty:
"Dear @SecretaryCarson," Rep. Nita Lowey, a New York Democrat, tweeted Wednesday. "States of mind: Happy. Sad. New York. Not a state of mind: Systemic poverty."
Ben Carson calls poverty 'state of mind' in interview - CNNPolitics.com

Carson is sharing an insight we should listen to; if a child does not have a desire to succeed, and/or is without parents to show/motivate him/her how to succeed, is it the child's fault that success was not achieved. or was that kid denied the recipe for success. Carson lived it. thru his determination he succeeded. i would accept his presentation before that of the likes of nita lowey

who is right, Carson, or his critics?
 
Ben Carson: Poverty Is a '''State of Mind''' | Time.com

many are castigating Carson, insisting his comment was a faux pas. they insist that a man who was raised in poverty as a child does not properly exhibit a valid understanding of poverty:

Ben Carson calls poverty 'state of mind' in interview - CNNPolitics.com

Carson is sharing an insight we should listen to; if a child does not have a desire to succeed, and/or is without parents to show/motivate him/her how to succeed, is it the child's fault that success was not achieved. or was that kid denied the recipe for success. Carson lived it. thru his determination he succeeded. i would accept his presentation before that of the likes of nita lowey

who is right, Carson, or his critics?

I think it's more that there's a certain mindset that leads to poverty. You have to believe you can succeed, and you have to be willing to accept deferred gratification. Going to school doesn't yield immediate rewards, but it's necessary in the long term.

Anyone can descend into poverty. It takes determination and a certain mindset to get out of it.
 
I wouldn't say to a "large extent" but to some extent.

My friends in Kenya and I laugh about the poverty mindset. It goes something like this: "You have so much and I nothing (or so little), you should give me some!"

We talk about this in regard to keeping stocks of necessary items whether seeds, grass for cows or grass for people. It seems there is a mindset among many that to have a stock is bad. To prepare for the future is bad. To have a 'nest egg', financial or otherwise, is viewed as greedy by those stuck in the mindset. Those in the mindset don't seem to understand the idea of saving for the future. If they have a stock of something, they immediately give it away in hope of others doing the same for them. They see their personal economy, of whatever resource, as a hand-to-mouth situation, and having anything more is immoral.

We joke, "don't let them see your stock, or the poverty mindset might get you".

The sad reality is people with this mindset operate in a different economy than those who plan for food and other security. Their economy is one of social capital alone. Any extras must be dispersed in hopes of increasing one's social capital for the day when one needs help from those one has helped. It ends up a circle of friends constantly feeding off each others' disposable earnings and no one ever developing a stock with which to establish personal security. It's kind of a form of group security, a loose collaboration of those hanging on by a thread always pulling their "friends" down as soon as one builds a stock. Crabs pulling each other back to the bottom of the bucket.

There are, of course, other aspects of the poverty mindset. It's not a concept that can be dismissed entirely. Still, one must be careful not to cross a line into blaming the victim territory.
 
Ben Carson: Poverty Is a '''State of Mind''' | Time.com

many are castigating Carson, insisting his comment was a faux pas. they insist that a man who was raised in poverty as a child does not properly exhibit a valid understanding of poverty:

Ben Carson calls poverty 'state of mind' in interview - CNNPolitics.com

Carson is sharing an insight we should listen to; if a child does not have a desire to succeed, and/or is without parents to show/motivate him/her how to succeed, is it the child's fault that success was not achieved. or was that kid denied the recipe for success. Carson lived it. thru his determination he succeeded. i would accept his presentation before that of the likes of nita lowey

who is right, Carson, or his critics?
I think its delicious watching and listening to limousine liberals try to explain to Ben (I GREW UP IN THE MO'FO PROJECTS) Carson what poverty is. I think he has a better understanding than his critics. And to cap it off, they're not actually addressing what he actually said, but are instead addressing a strawman. The liberals are becoming increasingly more pathetic. They're in a never-ending quest to top themselves with silliness.
 
I actually think Carson's right, in the sense that people can feel beaten down by "the system" and it saps their motivation to get out there and better themselves.

However, poverty is also systemic for a lot more reasons than a lack of gumption.
 
I think it's more that there's a certain mindset that leads to poverty. You have to believe you can succeed, and you have to be willing to accept deferred gratification. Going to school doesn't yield immediate rewards, but it's necessary in the long term.

Anyone can descend into poverty. It takes determination and a certain mindset to get out of it.

Someone must explain that need for deferred gratification and citing personal examples helps - which is damned unconvincing if conveyed with a bottle of booze or a crack pipe in hand living off of the dole and some occasional street hustle (crime).
 
Someone must explain that need for deferred gratification and citing personal examples helps - which is damned unconvincing if conveyed with a bottle of booze or a crack pipe in hand. ;)

which explains why poverty has a tendency to be multi generational.
 
which explains why poverty has a tendency to be multi generational.

Exactly, we pay folks (via the "safety net") to raise kids in households that would be denied permission to adopt a pound puppy.
 
...many are castigating Carson, insisting his comment was a faux pas. they insist that a man who was raised in poverty as a child does not properly exhibit a valid understanding of poverty:

Carson is sharing an insight we should listen to; if a child does not have a desire to succeed, and/or is without parents to show/motivate him/her how to succeed, is it the child's fault that success was not achieved. or was that kid denied the recipe for success. Carson lived it. thru his determination he succeeded. i would accept his presentation before that of the likes of nita lowey

who is right, Carson, or his critics?

Carson.

I've made a similar point from time to time.

Our society has created a number of options for success available to the majority of citizens, including free public school education, bootstrap vocational training programs, and higher education loans, grants, and scholarships.

There is also the massive social welfare support system that can give baseline support from which to step up from.

Time and again it is self-motivation or lack thereof that means the difference between success and failure.

IMO what is needed is cultural modification so that those in poverty don't prevent their children from pulling themselves out.

Whatever happened to the "I want more for my children, a better job and a better life than I have?" ideology prevalent back when I was a kid and living in the slums of New York?

It's turned into tear anyone down who tries to work within the system and assimilate, preventing them from moving up the path of success. That needs to stop, or it will continue to create a self-fulfilling prophecy of inevitable failure.
 
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I mean Carson is definitely at least somewhat right. State of mind certainly plays a part in success. Equally obviously there are other factors. Is it easier for somebody with a medium rating on that state of mind scale, born into a generic upper class family to become successful than somebody with a relatively high rating on that scale who is born impoverished in the inner city? Probably.

It's too simplistic to be sure, but he probably wasn't trying to explain all the ins and outs of poverty in that one interview.
 
I hate to say it, but in a general sense I agree with the doctor. And he's far from my favorite guy!

My grandfather came here with nothing, and retired at 52 (52!) after selling both his butcher shops, retiring in his two flat collecting rent from the upstair's tenant.

My wife came here with nothing, but when I met her several years later she was sending as much money back to her family in Asia as I was making!

How did they do it? While others languish generation after generation?

1] Family that raises them well, instilling work ethic and values.

2] They work long and hard (and smart).

That's really about it, I think. It's not that complicated. And yes, it starts with the right attitude, or as Doc Carson claims - "the mind".
 
Given all the folks that came out of the Great Depression saying "We did not know that we were poor, we had everything we needed"....sure.

The thing about Victim Culture is that it is so much adopted NOW that not so many folks can think outside of the box anymore.

WE USED TO BE BETTER!
 
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If you are raised with the right mind set...he is right. Some of the greatest success stories are of people coming from nothing. However, a lot of people seem to just accept things as they are and are not willing to put in the work, and more importantly, the sacrifice to pull themselves out. It's the so called, "American dream." We can do anything, as long as we are willing to sacrifice.
 
I wouldn't say to a "large extent" but to some extent.

My friends in Kenya and I laugh about the poverty mindset. It goes something like this: "You have so much and I nothing (or so little), you should give me some!"

We talk about this in regard to keeping stocks of necessary items whether seeds, grass for cows or grass for people. It seems there is a mindset among many that to have a stock is bad. To prepare for the future is bad. To have a 'nest egg', financial or otherwise, is viewed as greedy by those stuck in the mindset. Those in the mindset don't seem to understand the idea of saving for the future. If they have a stock of something, they immediately give it away in hope of others doing the same for them. They see their personal economy, of whatever resource, as a hand-to-mouth situation, and having anything more is immoral.

We joke, "don't let them see your stock, or the poverty mindset might get you".

The sad reality is people with this mindset operate in a different economy than those who plan for food and other security. Their economy is one of social capital alone. Any extras must be dispersed in hopes of increasing one's social capital for the day when one needs help from those one has helped. It ends up a circle of friends constantly feeding off each others' disposable earnings and no one ever developing a stock with which to establish personal security. It's kind of a form of group security, a loose collaboration of those hanging on by a thread always pulling their "friends" down as soon as one builds a stock. Crabs pulling each other back to the bottom of the bucket.

There are, of course, other aspects of the poverty mindset. It's not a concept that can be dismissed entirely. Still, one must be careful not to cross a line into blaming the victim territory.

This is true. I worked (and lived) at one point in an area of poor, unemployed white suburbanites, and any time someone would get a lump sum of cash, it was spent on material goods, new TV, shoes, clothes. Rarely was it used to pay off debts or repair something, and never was it saved. If they didn't have spare cash, they didn't feel obligated to loan it to someone who needed it. It's attitudes like this, combined with the idea it's better to have a job than an education, and things like that that lead to a mindset that precludes getting out of poverty, and continues a cycle of intergenerational poverty.
 
I actually think Carson's right, in the sense that people can feel beaten down by "the system" and it saps their motivation to get out there and better themselves.

However, poverty is also systemic for a lot more reasons than a lack of gumption.

Attitude won't fix all the poverty problems but it will solve a lot of them. Poverty is no longer systemic in the way it was in 60s where a large majority was actively trying to oppress minorities but is more of a minority culture systemic issue propped up at all socioeconomic levels.

When saying that "America is the land of opportunity" is considered a racist microagression then attitude is the problem that has to be fixed before anything else can be done.
 
IMO, to a certain extent, Carson is correct.
 
You know, this has been a pretty civil and consistent thread!

We need more like this! :thumbs:
 
I know one thing for sure, a piss poor attitude, or being a fool with your money isn't going to get you out of the trailer park or the hood anytime soon. I have seen plenty of lower income workers getting tattoos, buying weed & booze as soon as they cash their checks on Fridays. Then they would have the balls to show up hungover or stoned every Monday.... if they even show up at all. I've had more than a few guys come up to me on Monday's for a advance to buy gas, or food for their kids, because they blew through their money partying. Then, the same idiots were pissed on Friday's when their checks were short because of the advance I gave them? :roll:

I still see what my larger contractor friends who still use "in house" crews have to go through every single day with these some of these low life's, especially on Monday's, and after holiday weekends. I was so burn't out 3 years ago, I ended shutting my business down to drive dumps for a year and a half.

I don't payroll 3-4 workers like I used to. It is far less stressful paying sub crews by the job, and it is much cheaper. The sub crews bear the burden of their own Workers Comp, L/L Insurance, and FICA. Now days, I only have pay out $800.00 annually for my own limited liability coverage, state & local licenses, and quarterly taxes.

With that said, I do associate with a couple of really impressive young guys that have been trying trying to make a go at handyman business over the past 2 years. They have been begging me lately to come in with me because of the contacts that I have. These kids are from dirt poor families and I know one of their dad's who happens to be a druggie/thief. I was a little leery about them at first, but I have thrown a a half dozen small jobs at them over the past 5-6 months and my clients love them. I watched them start out in a old Volvo wagon with barely any tools and have since pooled their money for a decent used F-150, a 10' trailer, a couple mowers, and buying up all tools they can afford. It would be fun for me to watch them grow, but then again, I want to see how dedicated they are down the road when they have a few bucks in their pockets. I have taken chances before with people, only to get burned.
 
Exactly, we pay folks (via the "safety net") to raise kids in households that would be denied permission to adopt a pound puppy.

That has been a thought of mine for a long time. People who have never seen a copy of the Constitution will scream bloody murder if spoken openly.
 
Dr. Carson is right. The first step in making any change in your life is to want to.
 
Dr. Carson is right. The first step in making any change in your life is to want to.

Sort of, the first step is the realization that you should make a change. That step does not always come from within.
 
Not likely to be found constitutional, yet child abuse is a crime which can result in placing the children under other care.

Alas, no, people who shouldn't be caring for a pound puppy can still bring babies into this big old crazy world. If only we could license parents somehow, and require a stable marriage, the ability to feed and house the child, and a demonstrated ability to teach a dog to sit, stay, and heel on command, the need for government assistance would largely disappear in a generation.
 
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