The price tag on universal health care is in, it’s bigger than California’s budget

YorkshirePete · May 23, 2017

Re: The price tag on universal health care is in, it’s bigger than California’s budge

ludin said:
considering that people were saying that it was 50-65% which was a lie then yes.
it is better.

it was a myth that has been debunked but for some reason won't die.

Like hills alinski thesis and uranium sales?

YorkshirePete · May 23, 2017

Re: The price tag on universal health care is in, it’s bigger than California’s budge

ludin said:
considering that people were saying that it was 50-65% which was a lie then yes.
it is better.

it was a myth that has been debunked but for some reason won't die.

Agreed, but one losing your house is too many

OlNate · May 23, 2017

Re: The price tag on universal health care is in, it’s bigger than California’s budge

ludin said:
very few actually.
http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/economy-a-budget/263547-the-myth-of-medical-bankruptcy

only about 12-13% of bankruptcies are medically related.

the so called Harvard study was bogus.

"Only" 12-13% of bankruptcies are medically related?? lol...ouch. Do you mean, medically related as in the person is too sick to work, or are you talking strictly bankrupt due to medical bills? Because, well, 0% of Canadian bankruptcies are due to medical bills in Canada........

reinoe · May 23, 2017

Re: The price tag on universal health care is in, it’s bigger than California’s budge

YorkshirePete said:
Wow, pearls of wisdom coming from people who
1. Don't know the def of liberal (no Latin in college?)
2. Don't know the difference between a noun and an adjective (democrat v's democratic)
Why read further?

I'm pretty sure you didn't read the thread in the first place.

OlNate · May 23, 2017

Re: The price tag on universal health care is in, it’s bigger than California’s budge

zimmer said:
Nice try?
Does not change the thrust of the post you made or my response to it.

Or, sorry, you must have missed it, I no longer consider you worth responding seriously to re: the OP. Are you really surprised?

Nickyjo · May 23, 2017

Re: The price tag on universal health care is in, it’s bigger than California’s budge

ludin said:
it also doesn't cover a lot of things hence why people have to get medicare supplement services which run around 250-300 dollars a month.
:roll:

They're paying too much. I have a chronic illness... Yet Supplemental costs me less than $200 per, and it's deductible on my income tax, so cut that amount further.

I still give thanks to LBJ, democrats, and some republicans, and thumb my nose at Reagan's notion that we would lose our freedom if it passed.

Aberration · May 23, 2017

Re: The price tag on universal health care is in, it’s bigger than California’s budge

MTAtech said:
Well, I can't comment on how efficient your spending is but Medicare consistently is more efficient at managing costs than private insurers and Social Security runs on a 1% overhead amount.

Medicare also denies more services than private insurers. For many of us its not worth the trade off. I think if people want it they should be able to enroll. The rest of should be free to go private.

Social security provided a lower rate of return than just Treasury bonds. Do you think the marginal decrease in overhead is worth significant loss in ROI. Same here I think if people want it they should be free to enroll. Those who dont should be free to go private.

Some of these Nordic countries have fewer people than our cities, yet these policies are claimed to be successful and liked. If it can be done with 15M people there there should be able to make it work with the 15M or more who want it here.

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reinoe · May 23, 2017

Re: The price tag on universal health care is in, it’s bigger than California’s budge

Nickyjo said:
They're paying too much. I have a chronic illness... Yet Supplemental costs me less than $200 per, and it's deductible on my income tax, so cut that amount further.

I still give thanks to LBJ, democrats, and some republicans, and thumb my nose at Reagan's notion that we would lose our freedom if it passed.

The amount a person pays for medicare supplemental insurance varies depending on the state and sometimes your age and zip code. Some people also have underwritting they must go through. There are also variables depending on which insurance company provides the insurance and also which one of the plans a person has.

zimmer · May 23, 2017

Re: The price tag on universal health care is in, it’s bigger than California’s budge

OlNate said:
Or, sorry, you must have missed it, I no longer consider you worth responding seriously to re: the OP. Are you really surprised?

Nope, you're a typical Lib... tired of being educated about your ignorances.

faithful_servant · May 23, 2017

Re: The price tag on universal health care is in, it’s bigger than California’s budge

Praxas said:
I've seen illegal aliens working harder than some white trash conservatives.

Oh look chauvinism in action... Next you'll be telling us how all Asians are math whizzes, how all libertarians are pot-heads and how all criminals are just victims of the cis white patriarchy...

faithful_servant · May 23, 2017

Re: The price tag on universal health care is in, it’s bigger than California’s budge

MTAtech said:
What's the difference if I have to pay $12,000 a year for health insurance or if I pay the government $10,000 in taxes and the government provides my health insurance?

Except that it's more likely going to be " pay $6,000 a year for health insurance or if I pay the government $18,000 in taxes"...

faithful_servant · May 23, 2017

Re: The price tag on universal health care is in, it’s bigger than California’s budge

OlNate said:
That's bizarre... So, based on California population estimate of 39 million, that's $10,256.41 per person. Canada has country wide healthcare, and the costs is $3,961 per person, and we are completely covered for pretty near everything - every once in a while a story comes up about some "new, ground breaking" thing not being covered yet, but all the normal stuff is.

Gotta wonder why it's so expensive south of the border...I'd figure your buying power alone would have you under our cost. Instead it's almost 3 times as much. I'd have to question those numbers...

It's that high because ins. cos. make money on the dollars gong through their hands far more than the difference between premiums and payments + overhead. The more money that flows through their hands, the more money they make. So they aren't going to whine about a $2000 procedure that costs $500 elsewhere, since that higher price means more money going through their hands. We had a bad situation prior to the ACA and now that it's been implemented, the amount of money flowing through ins. cos. has increased massively, making them even more money. Single payer isn't the solution to this problem, putting some common sense regulations into place on the medical ins. industry is.

faithful_servant · May 23, 2017

Re: The price tag on universal health care is in, it’s bigger than California’s budge

Mach said:
View attachment 67217940

Health care is big business in the U.S. Notice it's health and financial at the top.

As an side, notice finance up there right next to it. That should make you scratch your head too. Finance, the place where someone takes your money, shuffles it, and may or may not return a gain to you. *really* adds value to the economy.

No, once we get the health care industry regulated better, be it from single payer or whatever, those costs will eventually come down.
We basically have a huge sector of our health care industry that is really sophisticated snake oil sellers. Much higher innovative fringe procedures and treatments, at 10x the cost, and 90% of the health outcome. But we can market the hell out of it to make you feel like the outcome is 200% better, after all, you get what you pay for right?

Actaully all of the top four are being driven by the medical industry. That's the #1 client for #2, 3 and 4.

OlNate · May 23, 2017

Re: The price tag on universal health care is in, it’s bigger than California’s budge

zimmer said:
Nope, you're a typical Lib... tired of being educated about your ignorances.

Nope, just not willing to take the abuse from someone who clearly has more of an axe to grind than a point to make, and not enough general basic understanding to even do that well. You think you're going to school me on my own country? lol... Ya, man, I'll talk to others in this thread, as I have been, I'm just not interested in you personally. You seem to have enough problems of your own...

Praxas · May 23, 2017

Re: The price tag on universal health care is in, it’s bigger than California’s budge

faithful_servant said:
Oh look chauvinism in action... Next you'll be telling us how all Asians are math whizzes, how all libertarians are pot-heads and how all criminals are just victims of the cis white patriarchy...

Not really since YOU are the one applying race to illegals. Are Latinos the ONLY illegals in America? Hmmmm seems we know who the racist is and it's you.

OlNate · May 23, 2017

Re: The price tag on universal health care is in, it’s bigger than California’s budge

faithful_servant said:
It's that high because ins. cos. make money on the dollars gong through their hands far more than the difference between premiums and payments + overhead. The more money that flows through their hands, the more money they make. So they aren't going to whine about a $2000 procedure that costs $500 elsewhere, since that higher price means more money going through their hands. We had a bad situation prior to the ACA and now that it's been implemented, the amount of money flowing through ins. cos. has increased massively, making them even more money. Single payer isn't the solution to this problem, putting some common sense regulations into place on the medical ins. industry is.

Makes sense, and of course you're right...single payer won't fix that, regulation will, and I heartily hope you guys get that under control, because it's pretty outrageous. And, once you do, think how much more attainable and less of a tax burden single payer would be? hehe....of course I had to throw that in there.

Hopefully I didn't come off as trying to suggest any of this would be easy...things are always complicated, especially when you get to the national healthcare system level...hehe... I merely put forward it would be worth it. Of course, I've always had access to it, it's kind of ingrained in our morality, healthcare is just something we want controlled by the government, it should never be "for profit". That and what constitutes fair gun control appear to be two massive differences between us, despite being similar in so many other ways, and I'm sure it translates poorly going from one ideology to another. But I hope you guys can get there.

PS: Thanks for the non-rabid response...

ttwtt78640 · May 23, 2017

Re: The price tag on universal health care is in, it’s bigger than California’s budge

Absentglare said:
Do you think that healthcare providers and insurers make wise choices to save uninsured individuals money? I think that the executives get rich, as do their administrators, and we get the bill.

We either have to deal with the "evil" that's transparent (government healthcare) or the "evil" that isn't transparent and that we have no control over (private healthcare).

Just because the government declares that it will pay $2 for a sandwich does not mean that someone will make a $2 sandwich. As I said before, look at the per pupil cost of a 100% public K-12 education and tell me that is a good deal. There are no federal schools (except the service academies) education is not a federal power (per the constitution) and yet we have a cabinet level, federal department of education with a huge (over $70 billion/year?) budget. The last thing that I want is turning over even more control of medical care to the federal government.

Moderate Right · May 23, 2017

Re: The price tag on universal health care is in, it’s bigger than California’s budge

zimmer said:
The flushing sound is coming from the wonderful State of Californizuela.

Can't they do better, and make an even bigger mess of it, so the state commits fiscal suicide sooner?

And we know, this isn't the full cost. It's way bigger, as all socialist schemes fail to predict future costs anywhere close to reality.

Even Jerry Brown was smart enough to not want single payer.

zimmer · May 23, 2017

Re: The price tag on universal health care is in, it’s bigger than California’s budge

OlNate said:
Nope, just not willing to take the abuse from someone who clearly has more of an axe to grind than a point to make, and not enough general basic understanding to even do that well. You think you're going to school me on my own country? lol... Ya, man, I'll talk to others in this thread, as I have been, I'm just not interested in you personally. You seem to have enough problems of your own...

I see you're miffed that a foreigner knew more about your country than you do.

That's OK, stick around, I'll bring you up to speed on a whole host of issues. I'll even explain variations of a "neutral zone trap"

Fenton · May 23, 2017

Re: The price tag on universal health care is in, it’s bigger than California’s budge

ttwtt78640 said:
Something being publicly funded does not make it "socialist".

Predicting future costs is always difficult especially when changing the rules of that marketplace - how many car wash visits would be made if they were made available for no out of pocket cost? If the price of a 16 oz. steak was set at one hour of your wage/salary (instead of its current fixed price) then how many more (or less) steaks would be sold?

This is likely why no state (so far) has attempted this venture into the great unknown.

Vermont did, they signed Single payer into law back in 2011.
This was after Jonathon Gruber was paid 400k to run the numbers to see if it was feasible on a State level.

According to Gruber it was not only feasible, it would have saved the State over 1 billion dollars over 10 years....Lol !

Aberration · May 23, 2017

Re: The price tag on universal health care is in, it’s bigger than California’s budge

Tanngrisnir said:
No, it's not. Not in this regard.

Why try and use words you don't understand? What's the point?

It is. In every regard. If you could demonstrate I didnt understand the word you would have. Quit making this about me and bring a real argument.

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zimmer · May 23, 2017

Re: The price tag on universal health care is in, it’s bigger than California’s budge

ttwtt78640 said:
Just because the government declares that it will pay $2 for a sandwich does not mean that someone will make a $2 sandwich. As I said before, look at the per pupil cost of a 100% public K-12 education and tell me that is a good deal. There are no federal schools (except the service academies) education is not a federal power (per the constitution) and yet we have a cabinet level, federal department of education with a huge (over $70 billion/year?) budget. The last thing that I want is turning over even more control of medical care to the federal government.

Or any government.

At least if it's state assisted suicide, you (and your business) can leave the state. If it's federally mandated suicide, you, me and everyone else is farked... Like the Kanuckistani's.

I don't know if anyone has noticed, but when it comes to the discussion of Socialist medical schemes, the word "free" isn't bandied about like it used to be. I guess that's a minor win, but the idiocy of CommiKare still, amazingly has a large ignorant constituency.

Aberration · May 23, 2017

Re: The price tag on universal health care is in, it’s bigger than California’s budge

Absentglare said:
Do you think that healthcare providers and insurers make wise choices to save uninsured individuals money? I think that the executives get rich, as do their administrators, and we get the bill.

We either have to deal with the "evil" that's transparent (government healthcare) or the "evil" that isn't transparent and that we have no control over (private healthcare).

Government insuring healthcare is no more transparent than private insurance of healthcare. If we didnt have so many laws regulating what could and could not be insured we would have more control. Individual control versus democratic control.

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ttwtt78640 · May 23, 2017

Re: The price tag on universal health care is in, it’s bigger than California’s budge

Fenton said:
Vermont did, they signed Single payer into law back in 2011.
This was after Jonathon Gruber was paid 400k to run the numbers to see if it was feasible on a State level.

According to Gruber it was not only feasible, it would have saved the State over 1 billion dollars over 10 years....Lol !

The Vermont plan was perfect except for one tiny detail - it had no funding mechanism.

Absentglare · May 23, 2017

Re: The price tag on universal health care is in, it’s bigger than California’s budge

ttwtt78640 said:
Just because the government declares that it will pay $2 for a sandwich does not mean that someone will make a $2 sandwich.

Sure but if you cut out a middle man taking $6,000,000/year selling sandwiches, you can safely lower the prices of those sandwiches.

ttwtt78640 said:
As I said before, look at the per pupil cost of a 100% public K-12 education and tell me that is a good deal. There are no federal schools (except the service academies) education is not a federal power (per the constitution) and yet we have a cabinet level, federal department of education with a huge (over $70 billion/year?) budget. The last thing that I want is turning over even more control of medical care to the federal government.

This really just boils down to fear of government.

Sigh, are you really so eager to pull the fangs off of government and let anarchy have a go at the reins? Do you honestly think that will have better outcomes than designing the system ourselves?

The price tag on universal health care is in, it’s bigger than California’s budget

YorkshirePete

YorkshirePete

OlNate

Shameless Canuck

reinoe

OlNate

Shameless Canuck

Nickyjo

Aberration

reinoe

zimmer

Educating the Ignorant

faithful_servant

faithful_servant

faithful_servant

faithful_servant

OlNate

Shameless Canuck

Praxas

OlNate

Shameless Canuck

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong

Moderate Right

zimmer

Educating the Ignorant

Fenton

Aberration

zimmer

Educating the Ignorant

Aberration

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong

Absentglare