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Both Obama and Hillary, even though they are out of office, can still be Impeached!

Re: Both Obama and Hillary, even though they are out of office, can still be Impeache

jimbo said:
What I think we should do is stop rambling about impeachment and move on. Hillary will not be impeached. Obama will not be impeached. Both may commit a future criminal act, and should be dealt with if that happens. Trump will not be impeached. He has not committed an impeachable act. At least with what we know now. If he does commit an impeachable act, then that should be dealt with.
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Agreed... WE should stop talking about it and get back to the needs of the Nation and its citizens.

Only:

Maxine Waters asks if Trump can be impeached by polling alone

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ent-trumps-impeachment-house-floor/101786744/


https://thinkprogress.org/al-green-calls-for-trump-impeachment-obstruction-of-justice-498b7d3ae973


.... So, it seems we won't stop talking about it.



Well, If we're going to keep talking about Impeaching Trump, I assure you, we're also going to greatly increase talking about impeaching Obama and Hillary!

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Re: Both Obama and Hillary, even though they are out of office, can still be Impeache

Kurmugeon said:
Agreed... WE should stop talking about it and get back to the needs of the Nation and its citizens.

Only:

Maxine Waters asks if Trump can be impeached by polling alone

President Trump's impeachment called for on House floor by Rep. Al Green


https://thinkprogress.org/al-green-calls-for-trump-impeachment-obstruction-of-justice-498b7d3ae973


.... So, it seems we won't stop talking about it.



Well, If we're going to keep talking about Impeaching Trump, I assure you, we're also going to greatly increase talking about impeaching Obama and Hillary!

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I'm not. I prefer to deal with reality. Both the left and right should be getting on with the nations business and looking to 2017 and beyond. It the left doesn't want to do that, the right should position themselves to take advantage of it.

Hillary and Obama will not be impeached.
 
Re: Both Obama and Hillary, even though they are out of office, can still be Impeache

jimbo said:
I'm not. I prefer to deal with reality. Both the left and right should be getting on with the nations business and looking to 2017 and beyond. It the left doesn't want to do that, the right should position themselves to take advantage of it.

Hillary and Obama will not be impeached.
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American Retail Politics has become uglier than making sausage.

Well, I can't change that.

But I won't just surrender to the Lefties because it has become ugly.

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Re: Both Obama and Hillary, even though they are out of office, can still be Impeache

Kurmugeon said:
Here is some food for thought:

Impeach Hillary Clinton Now -- It Can Be Done | Stock News Stock Market Analysis - IBD




Just because Hillary Lost the Election, does NOT mean she did not commit crimes while in office, or as a Candidate.

Just because Obama's second term ended, does NOT mean he did not commit crimes while in office.

With all of the baseless, and crimeless calls, for Trump to be politically impeached and driven from office...

Shouldn't we consider holding the Dems two KNOWN Criminals accountable for their crimes?

And there really are CRIMES, with a known statuate to which they can clearly be charged!


There are known dates of offenses, regulations violated, LAWS ignored and/or Violated, and the Authority and Jusidiction in Congress to Impeach both Hillary and Obama for their crimes!

Not just inuendo, rumors and hatred.

Just some food for thought...

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The role of Congress though is limited. The House impeaches; i.e. determines that there is sufficient cause to remove an official from office. The Senate then conducts the trial with a Justice of the Supreme Court acting as the judge. The Senate itself becomes the 'jury'. If after evidence and defense is presented, 2/3rds of the Senate must vote to remove the official from office. In the case of Bill Clinton, the special prosecutor offered strong evidence of perjury, obstruction of justice, witness-tampering, and abuse of power. The House impeached Clinton on perjury and obstructing justice.

While the Senate agreed Clinton was guilty, too few agreed that the crimes rose to the standard of high crimes and misdemeanors and Clinton was not convicted and removed from office. The impeachment was sufficient that a federal NY judge held Clinton in contempt of court, the Supreme Court revoked his credentials to argue before the high court, and the Arkansas bar suspended his license to practice law in Arkansas. None of that had any impact on his ability to rake in many millions of dollars giving speeches and in other activities.

But now, if we were to impeach Obama and/or Hillary, it would be on their record but there is unlikely to be any consequences that would matter to them. They cannot be removed from office because they are not in office. And the impeachment process and, if that was successful, the subsequent trial would just increase the toxic political environment that already exists.
 
Re: Both Obama and Hillary, even though they are out of office, can still be Impeache

Kurmugeon said:
American Retail Politics has become uglier than making sausage.

Well, I can't change that.

But I won't just surrender to the Lefties because it has become ugly.

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On the contrary, ordinary people can make better sausage. The election proved that.

Their game plan resulted in a major loss. Aside from the President/VP, the results was major losses in Congress and over a thousand local and state losses.

Why would we want to emulate that?
 
Re: Both Obama and Hillary, even though they are out of office, can still be Impeache

AlbqOwl said:
The role of Congress though is limited. The House impeaches; i.e. determines that there is sufficient cause to remove an official from office. The Senate then conducts the trial with a Justice of the Supreme Court acting as the judge. The Senate itself becomes the 'jury'. If after evidence and defense is presented, 2/3rds of the Senate must vote to remove the official from office. In the case of Bill Clinton, the special prosecutor offered strong evidence of perjury, obstruction of justice, witness-tampering, and abuse of power. The House impeached Clinton on perjury and obstructing justice.

While the Senate agreed Clinton was guilty, too few agreed that the crimes rose to the standard of high crimes and misdemeanors and Clinton was not convicted and removed from office. The impeachment was sufficient that a federal NY judge held Clinton in contempt of court, the Supreme Court revoked his credentials to argue before the high court, and the Arkansas bar suspended his license to practice law in Arkansas. None of that had any impact on his ability to rake in many millions of dollars giving speeches and in other activities.

But now, if we were to impeach Obama and/or Hillary, it would be on their record but there is unlikely to be any consequences that would matter to them. They cannot be removed from office because they are not in office. And the impeachment process and, if that was successful, the subsequent trial would just increase the toxic political environment that already exists.
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And Impeachment could remove their government retirement pensions...

There needs to be a price for breaking the law, and so far, both Obama and Hillary have only profited.

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Re: Both Obama and Hillary, even though they are out of office, can still be Impeache

I know what crimes the wingnuts say Hillary committed, but I'm curious as to what charges they want against Obama other than Presidenting While Democrat.
 
Re: Both Obama and Hillary, even though they are out of office, can still be Impeache

"While the Senate agreed Clinton was guilty..."

The votes in the Senate weren't even close.

And no, for the eleventeeth time, Clinton or Obama cannot be impeached.
 
Re: Both Obama and Hillary, even though they are out of office, can still be Impeache

Kurmugeon said:
And Impeachment could remove their government retirement pensions...

There needs to be a price for breaking the law, and so far, both Obama and Hillary have only profited.

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Impeachment can't. Think of impeachment as the grand jury of politics. All they do is recommend.

Our last politician to be impeached still gets his retirement check.
 
Re: Both Obama and Hillary, even though they are out of office, can still be Impeache

Kurmugeon said:
And Impeachment could remove their government retirement pensions...

There needs to be a price for breaking the law, and so far, both Obama and Hillary have only profited.

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The only penalty I find if the Senate trial convicts is to remove the person from office. It does not remove any retirement benefits the person may have accrued. For instance if President Obama was successfully impeached and then convicted in the Senate, he would not only retain his retirement benefits but his Secret Service protection as well.
 
Re: Both Obama and Hillary, even though they are out of office, can still be Impeache

Kobie said:
I know what crimes the wingnuts say Hillary committed, but I'm curious as to what charges they want against Obama other than Presidenting While Democrat.
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Here is possibly one:

The nonpartisan investigative arm of Congress, the Government Accountability Office (GAO), confirmed this week that the president broke a “clear and unambiguous” law when he swapped the high-level terrorists for Bowe Bergdahl, an Army sergeant who went AWOL in Afghanistan in 2009. According to rules issued by the White House Office of Management and Budget (OMB), the violation is serious and can carry severe consequences. They include fines, imprisonment, administrative discipline, suspension from duty without pay or removal from office, the rules specifically state …

…Congress must be notified before acts of this magnitude are committed and the president completely disregarded the legislative branch. In fact the Department of Defense (DOD) failed to notify Congress at least 30 days in advance of the exchange, a flagrant violation of the law, and misused nearly $1 million of a wartime account to make the transfer, the GAO report says. The DOD used appropriated funds to carry out the transfer when no money was available for that purpose, congressional investigators found. This means the DOD violated a measure known as the Antideficiency Act, which prohibits federal agencies from incurring obligations exceeding an amount available in appropriation.

The apparent violation of the Antideficiency Act, by the way, carries potential criminal penalties. I think it worth quoting the GAO’s summary of the penalties for violating the law:

Federal employees who violate the Antideficiency Act are subject to two types of sanctions: administrative and penal. Employees may be subject to appropriate administrative discipline including, when circumstances warrant, suspension from duty without pay or removal from office. In addition, employees may also be subject to fines, imprisonment, or both.​
Did Obama Commit a Crime? - Judicial Watch

youtube Obama on Beau Bergdahl - Bing video
 
Re: Both Obama and Hillary, even though they are out of office, can still be Impeache

SenorXm/Sirius said:
Seriously.. I've read 1,000 times here from Trumpsters how the Dems and the liberals can't get over that Hillary lost the election.

Funny thing is it seems more like the Trumpsters who can't believe their guy won. lol..

Maybe they miss Obama and Hillary? lol
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They obviously aren't warming up to the idea of their guy being scrutinized. I have to laugh out loud at Carlson and the Fox crowd. They can't defend the Trump admin., so - "look, over there!!!"

Are dead people off limits? Maybe we can impeach Reagan for Iran/Contra?
 
Re: Both Obama and Hillary, even though they are out of office, can still be Impeache

AlbqOwl said:
The only penalty I find if the Senate trial convicts is to remove the person from office. It does not remove any retirement benefits the person may have accrued. For instance if President Obama was successfully impeached and then convicted in the Senate, he would not only retain his retirement benefits but his Secret Service protection as well.
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Congress chose to strip James Trafficant of his Pension:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_pension

Forfeiture
In 2003, after James Traficant was expelled from Congress, several Congressmen tried passing a bill that would prevent expelled members from receiving their pensions. The bill was stalled and eventually dropped after being sent to the House Administration and Reforms committee for review.[6] In 2007, the Honest Leadership and Open Government Act was enacted; this act provides that a member of Congress convicted of one or more of a list of enumerated felonies (those relating to corruption, election crimes, or official misconduct) will forfeit his or her pension.[7
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It was later blocked, so they passed new laws to grant the power to remove Pensions for Corruption.


By a new Law passed in 2007:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honest_Leadership_and_Open_Government_Act

The Honest Leadership and Open Government Act of 2007 (Pub.L. 110–81, 121 Stat. 735, enacted September 14, 2007) is a law of the United States federal government that amended parts of the Lobbying Disclosure Act of 1995. It strengthens public disclosure requirements concerning lobbying activity and funding, places more restrictions on gifts for members of Congress and their staff, and provides for mandatory disclosure of earmarks in expenditure bills. The bill was signed into law by President George W. Bush on September 15, 2007.
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There have been a number of other precidents to losing pension, though in many cases, it is State government issue, not Federal.

Pa. weighs restoring $20,000 monthly pension for convicted Senate leader

Grimm could keep federal pension | TheHill


And the verdict is out on many pending cases:

New Rules Could Strip Pensions From Politicians Convicted of Corruption - The New York Times

New Rules Could Strip Pensions From Politicians Convicted of Corruption

By WILLIAM K. RASHBAUM and JESSE McKINLEYSEPT. 17, 2013


Any public officials convicted of federal corruption charges could lose their government pension under new policies announced on Tuesday night by the top federal prosecutor in Manhattan.

The policies, aimed at ending the longstanding practice of jailed politicians continuing to collect public money, were detailed by Preet Bharara, the United States attorney for the Southern District of New York, at the first public hearing of the Moreland Commission to Investigate Public Corruption. The 25-member panel was established in July by Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo to address what has been widely decried as a corruption crisis in Albany and other political spheres in New York State.

...
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There is also the political and social stigma of having the pension stripped, which is likely the more monitarily punitive measure.

Not many will pay 100s of Thousands to have a "Guest Speaker" who is a felon who has had his pension withdrawn.




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Re: Both Obama and Hillary, even though they are out of office, can still be Impeache

Kobie said:
I know what crimes the wingnuts say Hillary committed, but I'm curious as to what charges they want against Obama other than Presidenting While Democrat.
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In addition to Bergdahl, this article outlines four additional which, while probably the Congress would not see as quite rising to the level of high crimes and misdemeanors, were illegal in the minds of those of us who think there is a limit on what a President should be able to do on his own with immunity:
https://townhall.com/columnists/joh...which-obama-deserves-to-be-impeached-n1848801
 
Re: Both Obama and Hillary, even though they are out of office, can still be Impeache

Kurmugeon said:
Congress chose to strip James Trafficant of his Pension:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_pension



It was later blocked, so they passed new laws to grant the power to remove Pensions for Corruption.


By a new Law passed in 2007:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honest_Leadership_and_Open_Government_Act



There have been a number of other precidents to losing pension, though in many cases, it is State government issue, not Federal.

Pa. weighs restoring $20,000 monthly pension for convicted Senate leader

Grimm could keep federal pension | TheHill


And the verdict is out on many pending cases:

New Rules Could Strip Pensions From Politicians Convicted of Corruption - The New York Times





There is also the political and social stigma of having the pension stripped, which is likely the more monitarily punitive measure.

Not many will pay 100s of Thousands to have a "Guest Speaker" who is a felon who has had his pension withdrawn.




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Interesting. But it only applies to congressional rules and not the President or his staff/cabinet, yes?
 
Re: Both Obama and Hillary, even though they are out of office, can still be Impeache

AlbqOwl said:
In addition to Bergdahl, this article outlines four additional which, while probably the Congress would not see as quite rising to the level of high crimes and misdemeanors, were illegal in the minds of those of us who think there is a limit on what a President should be able to do on his own with immunity:
https://townhall.com/columnists/joh...which-obama-deserves-to-be-impeached-n1848801
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If only the Congress were controlled by the GOP during most of Obama's term when that was happenng...they could have done something about that, eh?
 
Re: Both Obama and Hillary, even though they are out of office, can still be Impeache

Kurmugeon said:
Congress chose to strip James Trafficant of his Pension:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_pension



It was later blocked, so they passed new laws to grant the power to remove Pensions for Corruption.


By a new Law passed in 2007:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honest_Leadership_and_Open_Government_Act



There have been a number of other precidents to losing pension, though in many cases, it is State government issue, not Federal.

Pa. weighs restoring $20,000 monthly pension for convicted Senate leader

Grimm could keep federal pension | TheHill


And the verdict is out on many pending cases:

New Rules Could Strip Pensions From Politicians Convicted of Corruption - The New York Times





There is also the political and social stigma of having the pension stripped, which is likely the more monitarily punitive measure.

Not many will pay 100s of Thousands to have a "Guest Speaker" who is a felon who has had his pension withdrawn.




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I disagree. It might hurt a Republican as those in the GOP or conservative camp generally require higher standards of their leaders, though they too forgive an awful lot. But the Democrats or those sympathetic to Democrats so often set the bar so low for what is tolerable that they pay huge bucks in speaking fees to a lot of nefarious characters. Despite his past, look at the multi-millions Bill Clinton has pulled in just in speaking fees since he left office. I imagine losing his pension--pocket change for him--would not have changed that one iota.
 
Re: Both Obama and Hillary, even though they are out of office, can still be Impeache

AlbqOwl said:
I disagree. It might hurt a Republican as those in the GOP or conservative camp generally require higher standards of their leaders, though they too forgive an awful lot. But the Democrats or those sympathetic to Democrats so often set the bar so low for what is tolerable that they pay huge bucks in speaking fees to a lot of nefarious characters. Despite his past, look at the multi-millions Bill Clinton has pulled in just in speaking fees since he left office. I imagine losing his pension--pocket change for him--would not have changed that one iota.
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There is much truth in what you say here...

Which is why, the GOP, despite their huge number of faults, are the "Lesser of Evils" in these turbulent times.

We need the OWLs party.

But as an Owl, you already knew that! :)


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Re: Both Obama and Hillary, even though they are out of office, can still be Impeache

AlbqOwl said:
Interesting. But it only applies to congressional rules and not the President or his staff/cabinet, yes?
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I think that a Congressional Impeachment Court can Choose to make it apply to the President, his staff, and any Federal Employee, actually.

I could be wrong, but in other articles I'm reading about that Legislation (way outside the scope of this thread.) that is the jist of what I am reading.

Could be the subject of another good thread debate.

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Re: Both Obama and Hillary, even though they are out of office, can still be Impeache

Paperview said:
If only the Congress were controlled by the GOP during most of Obama's term when that was happenng...they could have done something about that, eh?
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They could have impeached. But they didn't.
 
Re: Both Obama and Hillary, even though they are out of office, can still be Impeache

Kurmugeon said:
There is much truth in what you say here...

Which is why, the GOP, despite their huge number of faults, are the "Lesser of Evils" in these turbulent times.

We need the OWLs party.

But as an Owl, you already knew that! :)


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I keep saying that if you guys would just give me absolute power for a couple of years, I could fix a whole bunch of stuff that needs fixing. :)
 
Re: Both Obama and Hillary, even though they are out of office, can still be Impeache

Kurmugeon said:
I think that a Congressional Impeachment Court can Choose to make it apply to the President, his staff, and any Federal Employee, actually.

I could be wrong, but in other articles I'm reading about that Legislation (way outside the scope of this thread.) that is the jist of what I am reading.

Could be the subject of another good thread debate.

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I would just be happy if Congressional and Presidential pensions would simply be eliminated now. Raise their salaries a bit if necessary but let them buy their own insurance and fund their own 401ks out of their salaries. The insurance policies and 401ks would go with them when they left office, and the taxpayer wouldn't be on the hook to support them for the rest of their lives. With that reform plus some other provisions, we could actually get public servants into office again instead of professional politicians who make up a permanent political class.
 
Re: Both Obama and Hillary, even though they are out of office, can still be Impeache

AlbqOwl said:
I keep saying that if you guys would just give me absolute power for a couple of years, I could fix a whole bunch of stuff that needs fixing. :)
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And all that power, and you would steadfastly resist the Dark Side...


So would I, of course!


Well, things couldn't get allot worse! So... :)

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Re: Both Obama and Hillary, even though they are out of office, can still be Impeache

The Belknap case was 140 plus years ago.

No one is going to the time and expense of impeaching anyone who is out of office today.
 
Re: Both Obama and Hillary, even though they are out of office, can still be Impeache

Kurmugeon said:
And all that power, and you would steadfastly resist the Dark Side...


So would I, of course!


Well, things couldn't get allot worse! So... :)

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I would like to think I would be 100% honest, ethical, and above board. But after seeing the unmitigated and unprecedented hate and dishonesty leveled at President Trump, I don't know. How does anybody know how they would react in the face of that?

But at least I wouldn't have to read and hear cries for my impeachment. :)
 
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