• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

How stupid are we?

R

Ray9

Active member
Joined
Oct 27, 2014
Messages
342
Reaction score
201
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
From the point of view of healthy, drug-free Baby Boomers it’s become chillingly clear that the political establishment of the United States has been on a mission to lower the intelligence of the average citizen. The architects of the former Soviet Union realized many years ago that you can’t fix stupid but you can control and direct it. They were able to subvert, pervert and convert the purpose of representative government and supplant it with central authority right under the noses of the people.

In spite of the well documented atrocities of Soviet history the majority of Soviet subjects were content to be sheep under the Soviet system. It lasted for seven decades and produced a top-down arrangement favoring a tiny nucleus of a select few at the expense of the many. It failed due to scarcity because it was intellectually ahead of its time.

Under a truly free system of government of the people, by the people and for the people it is very difficult if not impossible for a political intelligentsia to attain the envied, coveted status and power of the Soviet leadership so a strategy of smoke and mirrors is necessary to implement the machinery of conversion from free to “managed”. It began with the New Deal, leading to the War on Poverty wedded to the Great Society and finally the last component, the Affordable Care Act.

The chaos and bedlam of identity politics are important tools to set the people against each other to take their eye off the culprit of expanding, oppressive government. Intellectuals in education who thrive on taxation are propaganda foot soldiers to indoctrinate generations of students to reject freedom and embrace the forced mediocrity of shepherded central planning. This is progressively followed by an ideologically-commandeered press that enforces the interests of planners through distortion and obfuscation.

The planners failed in the last election because there just weren’t enough stupid people to line up and drink the Kool Aid. The American political establishment is content more stupid can be found. They are so smug that they are playing a bizarre practical joke on the people. They are accusing the people’s president of conspiring with Russians. The aluminum foil hats of Russian conspiracy are selling like hotcakes. The political establishment is in the process of hanging the people with their own rope unless of course the people are smarter than that. How stupid are we?
 
Pretty stupid, "we" elected Donald Trump. Few things on earth prove our national stupidity more than electing an obvious liar and con artist like him president.
 
Ray9 said:
From the point of view of healthy, drug-free Baby Boomers it’s become chillingly clear that the political establishment of the United States has been on a mission to lower the intelligence of the average citizen. The architects of the former Soviet Union realized many years ago that you can’t fix stupid but you can control and direct it. They were able to subvert, pervert and convert the purpose of representative government and supplant it with central authority right under the noses of the people.

In spite of the well documented atrocities of Soviet history the majority of Soviet subjects were content to be sheep under the Soviet system. It lasted for seven decades and produced a top-down arrangement favoring a tiny nucleus of a select few at the expense of the many. It failed due to scarcity because it was intellectually ahead of its time.

Under a truly free system of government of the people, by the people and for the people it is very difficult if not impossible for a political intelligentsia to attain the envied, coveted status and power of the Soviet leadership so a strategy of smoke and mirrors is necessary to implement the machinery of conversion from free to “managed”. It began with the New Deal, leading to the War on Poverty wedded to the Great Society and finally the last component, the Affordable Care Act.

The chaos and bedlam of identity politics are important tools to set the people against each other to take their eye off the culprit of expanding, oppressive government. Intellectuals in education who thrive on taxation are propaganda foot soldiers to indoctrinate generations of students to reject freedom and embrace the forced mediocrity of shepherded central planning. This is progressively followed by an ideologically-commandeered press that enforces the interests of planners through distortion and obfuscation.

The planners failed in the last election because there just weren’t enough stupid people to line up and drink the Kool Aid. The American political establishment is content more stupid can be found. They are so smug that they are playing a bizarre practical joke on the people. They are accusing the people’s president of conspiring with Russians. The aluminum foil hats of Russian conspiracy are selling like hotcakes. The political establishment is in the process of hanging the people with their own rope unless of course the people are smarter than that. How stupid are we?
Click to expand...

We are so stupid that we accept the premise that democracy is the fierce competition between the major party for a bigger federal government doing battle with the major party for a huge federal government. That, of course, means that we the sheeple are simply arguing over the speed with which the federal government gains more power and control over us. That, IMHO, goes well beyond being some dumb and reaches the level of being plumb dumb. That is how stupid we are.
 
calamity said:
Pretty stupid, "we" elected Donald Trump. Few things on earth prove our national stupidity more than electing an obvious liar and con artist like him president.
Click to expand...

Especially since we could have had Hillary instead. ;)
 
calamity said:
Pretty stupid, "we" elected Donald Trump. Few things on earth prove our national stupidity more than electing an obvious liar and con artist like him president.
Click to expand...

Well, you could have been even more stupid and elected Clinton, because she sure as hell is a liar and Corruption is her middle name. So, yep the collective American "you" are stupid, but not as stupid as you could have been...that should cheer you up some.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
We are so stupid that we accept the premise that democracy is the fierce competition between the major party for a bigger federal government doing battle with the major party for a huge federal government. That, of course, means that we the sheeple are simply arguing over the speed with which the federal government gains more power and control over us. That, IMHO, goes well beyond being some dumb and reaches the level of being plumb dumb. That is how stupid we are.
Click to expand...

Do you believe that virtually unrestricted campaign funding (including by entities which can't even vote for a candidate!) makes that political situation more or less accessible to minor parties or others with less vested interest interest in the status quo?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
We are so stupid that we accept the premise that democracy is the fierce competition between the major party for a bigger federal government doing battle with the major party for a huge federal government. That, of course, means that we the sheeple are simply arguing over the speed with which the federal government gains more power and control over us. That, IMHO, goes well beyond being some dumb and reaches the level of being plumb dumb. That is how stupid we are.
Click to expand...
Agreed their is ample stupidity in both partys. I think of it as the quote goes

The road to hell is paved with good intentions

For me the only things i want from my government is

1. Protect me from other governments who try to rule me

2. Protect me from being bullied by neighbors.

I understand that my vision has its own set of draw backs and pitfalls. My utopia is another mans hell.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
 
calamity said:
Pretty stupid, "we" elected Donald Trump. Few things on earth prove our national stupidity more than electing an obvious liar and con artist like him president.
Click to expand...

And funniest part is, up until 10 years ago, Trump was a life long Democrat. :lamo

Hummmm I wonder what it was that made Trump so appealing to Republicans and Conservatives? :roll:
 
Mithrae said:
Do you believe that virtually unrestricted campaign funding (including by entities which can't even vote for a candidate!) makes that political situation more or less accessible to minor parties or others with less vested interest interest in the status quo?
Click to expand...

Yes. Do you believe that the MSM gives all candidates an equal shot? The problem with campaign finance "reform" is that those with the ability to make news (i.e. incumbents) have a huge advantage over any competition seeking to unseat them. That is why congress critters, regardless of major party affiliation, enjoy a re-election rate of over 90%. Without government control over political speech across all media no system is going to keep money out of politics.
 
trouble13 said:
Agreed their is ample stupidity in both partys. I think of it as the quote goes

The road to hell is paved with good intentions

For me the only things i want from my government is

1. Protect me from other governments who try to rule me

2. Protect me from being bullied by neighbors.

I understand that my vision has its own set of draw backs and pitfalls. My utopia is another mans hell.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

That sounds wonderful yet well over half of federal spending is on entitlements - direct payments to (or on behalf of) individuals. Obviously, that power is likely to increase to the point of a voting majority being dependent on such "help". These entitlement payments no longer require direct taxation (see the rising national debt) thus vote buying is "free" (for a while). The question that we must ask (answer?) is how much of our GDP do we want under direct federal government control? At some point "too big to fail" will become "too big to bail" and we will face austerity day (see Greece).
 
Ray9 said:
From the point of view of healthy, drug-free Baby Boomers it’s become chillingly clear that the political establishment of the United States has been on a mission to lower the intelligence of the average citizen. The architects of the former Soviet Union realized many years ago that you can’t fix stupid but you can control and direct it. They were able to subvert, pervert and convert the purpose of representative government and supplant it with central authority right under the noses of the people.

In spite of the well documented atrocities of Soviet history the majority of Soviet subjects were content to be sheep under the Soviet system. It lasted for seven decades and produced a top-down arrangement favoring a tiny nucleus of a select few at the expense of the many. It failed due to scarcity because it was intellectually ahead of its time.

Under a truly free system of government of the people, by the people and for the people it is very difficult if not impossible for a political intelligentsia to attain the envied, coveted status and power of the Soviet leadership so a strategy of smoke and mirrors is necessary to implement the machinery of conversion from free to “managed”. It began with the New Deal, leading to the War on Poverty wedded to the Great Society and finally the last component, the Affordable Care Act.

The chaos and bedlam of identity politics are important tools to set the people against each other to take their eye off the culprit of expanding, oppressive government. Intellectuals in education who thrive on taxation are propaganda foot soldiers to indoctrinate generations of students to reject freedom and embrace the forced mediocrity of shepherded central planning. This is progressively followed by an ideologically-commandeered press that enforces the interests of planners through distortion and obfuscation.

The planners failed in the last election because there just weren’t enough stupid people to line up and drink the Kool Aid. The American political establishment is content more stupid can be found. They are so smug that they are playing a bizarre practical joke on the people. They are accusing the people’s president of conspiring with Russians. The aluminum foil hats of Russian conspiracy are selling like hotcakes. The political establishment is in the process of hanging the people with their own rope unless of course the people are smarter than that. How stupid are we?
Click to expand...

I think there is a lot to what you say, and I hate to see the people of this country being "dumbed down." But there are still many millions of plain folks who have a lot of common sense and refuse to be taken in or pushed around by the federal government. I saw people like that every day when I lived in Arizona.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That sounds wonderful yet well over half of federal spending is on entitlements - direct payments to (or on behalf of) individuals. Obviously, that power is likely to increase to the point of a voting majority being dependent on such "help". These entitlement payments no longer require direct taxation (see the rising national debt) thus vote buying is "free" (for a while). The question that we must ask (answer?) is how much of our GDP do we want under direct federal government control? At some point "too big to fail" will become "too big to bail" and we will face austerity day (see Greece).
Click to expand...
I get it and i realize i am in a miniority opinion. Nothing i can do about people who vote themselves entitlements other than try to persuade them too by expressing my views.

What i try not to do is insult people in the process. I try to present my disagreements in a civil manner. I refrain from calling people snowflakes, racusts, and such. Its an unproductive form of emotional self gratification.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
 
trouble13 said:
I get it and i realize i am in a miniority opinion. Nothing i can do about people who vote themselves entitlements other than try to persuade them too by expressing my views.

What i try not to do is insult people in the process. I try to present my disagreements in a civil manner. I refrain from calling people snowflakes, racusts, and such. Its an unproductive form of emotional self gratification.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

OK, but meanwhile we have the party for a bigger federal government trying to replace PPACA with a (slightly?) different federal entitlement and calling for lower taxation. Once the "free" stuff creates a dependent group of folks then it is politically impossible to get all of that toothpaste back into the tube.
 
Cigar said:
And funniest part is, up until 10 years ago, Trump was a life long Democrat. :lamo

Hummmm I wonder what it was that made Trump so appealing to Republicans and Conservatives? :roll:
Click to expand...

The New Conservative apparently supports someone having 5 kids with 3 different women, as well as their boy meeting with foreign co-conspirators in the White House to discuss the progress made in his efforts at obstructing American justice.
 
LadyMoonlight said:
Well, you could have been even more stupid and elected Clinton, because she sure as hell is a liar and Corruption is her middle name. So, yep the collective American "you" are stupid, but not as stupid as you could have been...that should cheer you up some.
Click to expand...

At this point, I wish I would have voted for Hillary. And, I never thought I would ever say that. :roll:
 
ttwtt78640 said:
OK, but meanwhile we have the party for a bigger federal government trying to replace PPACA with a (slightly?) different federal entitlement and calling for lower taxation. Once the "free" stuff creates a dependent group of folks then it is politically impossible to get all of that toothpaste back into the tube.
Click to expand...
Imo the way to get the toothpaste back in the bottle is by making people pay for the entitlements they are getting.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
 
trouble13 said:
Imo the way to get the toothpaste back in the bottle is by making people pay for the entitlements they are getting.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Some already are (by taxation and/or borrowing from future generations) so I don't get your point.
 
Cigar said:
And funniest part is, up until 10 years ago, Trump was a life long Democrat. :lamo

Hummmm I wonder what it was that made Trump so appealing to Republicans and Conservatives? :roll:
Click to expand...

Hillary.............
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Some already are (by taxation and/or borrowing from future generations) so I don't get your point.
Click to expand...
Borrowing from others is not making them pay for. I dont have a specific answer for your question but the general answer is you have to make it cost more than its worth to the majority of people. If you do that they will stop voting for those things.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
 
trouble13 said:
Borrowing from others is not making them pay for. I dont have a specific answer for your question but the general answer is you have to make it cost more than its worth to the majority of people. If you do that they will stop voting for those things.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

That is not how federal income taxation and spending works. It takes a lot from a few, a bit from many and gives away more than it takes in. Thus there fewer that feel hurt than feel rewarded (or ignored). Think of it from the perspective of an employer - would you rather be mandated to pay everyone more to get rid of any need for entitlements (the "living wage" idea) or just pay a few more dollars in taxation to support a "safety net" instead?
 
calamity said:
Pretty stupid, "we" elected Donald Trump. Few things on earth prove our national stupidity more than electing an obvious liar and con artist like him president.
Click to expand...

How can u call us stupid?

Russia got him elected right?

And did it all right under Obama's nose...
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Yes. Do you believe that the MSM gives all candidates an equal shot? The problem with campaign finance "reform" is that those with the ability to make news (i.e. incumbents) have a huge advantage over any competition seeking to unseat them. That is why congress critters, regardless of major party affiliation, enjoy a re-election rate of over 90%. Without government control over political speech across all media no system is going to keep money out of politics.
Click to expand...

No system is going to eliminate crime either - but that's hardly a reason to give it all up as a lost cause, burn the law books and sack the police force.

I would argue that any system which depends on political parties (rather than just individual candidates) will tend towards a duopoly in long periods of stability to begin with, and duopolies will always tend towards fairly similar 'mainstream' policies in both parties with relatively few differences in nuance, rhetoric and wedge issues. But absurd levels of legal political bribery multiply those problems a hundred-fold; creating a paywall to exclude smaller parties and new ideas far better than mere incumbency ever could and making both major parties dependent on and thus beholden to a more or less similar range of financing groups.

If it's true that the modern American electorate behaves less rationally than in past generations - and the evidence of the last election in particular provides some pretty compelling evidence, on both sides to a greater or lesser extent - I'd guess that by far the biggest cause is two-party politics encouraging black and white thinking and ever shriller hyper-partisanship on the few wedge issues (and for that matter even on issues where the only real difference is the rhetoric).

I honestly cannot fathom why one of the biggest factors perpetuating that remains so widely defended, particularly when a large part of it is quite literally bribery - political 'donations' by entities which are not voting constituents, which politicians are not supposed to represent, and whose explicit purpose, their legally binding purpose, is not to give money away without getting something back for their investment!
 
Last edited:
The real threat here is that Americans are steadily and deliberately being dispossessed of the Constitution which has a centerpiece of limited government, not no government. There is a plague of organized, well-funded Lone-Rangerism encouraging local administrations to not just ignore federal law but to actively contradict and overthrow it with statist kangaroo vigilantism-Sanctuary Cities. There are no altruistic motives behind this only money to be made from cheap labor which is de-facto slavery to government dependence disguised as refuge. It is essentially invited cultural carpet bombing to poison a free, functioning society. We would have to be really stupid to allow this to continue unchecked. Look what it is doing to Europe. Do we want that here?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom