• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Morning Joe says FBI close to exposing the president: ‘It’s a criminal issue'

ludin said:
No he was rightfully terminated. He boondoggled the Hillary investigation.

No trump does not have to go unless you can un-elect him. he has so far committed no high crime against the office.
you not liking him is well irrelevant.

The American discourse left when the left wing went nutsy over bush vs gore.
we lost honor and truth with Obama, Clinton, bush.

trying to blame trump shows how partisan you are.
Click to expand...

LOL. You had to be told how to interpret the Comey investigation. Because it is so obviously about the Russian investigation/FBI probe into Trump.

Trump firing Comey because Comey was investigating the Trump campaign, was the final nail in Trump's political coffin. That has made him identical to the Clinton's that you hate.
 
Zyphlin said:
I'm curious to know if this is just Joe speculating or if he's got sources.

I don't quite get the bit of logic, having experience in a federal law enforcement agency in the past. The reality is that the Director is basically never the guy that's actually going to be heading up an investigation. What's more, the removal of a Director is never really going to cease the ongoing investigations and actions already happening. Their an important part of the whole, but they're still a cog in the wheel. What's more, typically, you're Director level guys are actually FAR less involved with the actual operational side of things. In most instances I've dealt with, the Director is the more politically/front facing individual...the guy working with external sources / the parent agency/department / congress. The deputy is usually the one more directly focused on the day to day operational side of things.

If the notion is "he fired Comey to try and send a message to anyone else investigating it that they better stop or they'll be fired", then I can see at least some degree of why you want to connect those dots. However, for me that doesn't make a ton of sense. For one, Comey was already taking a pretty neutral to soft stance on the investigation in terms to it's relationship with Trump. For two, if this was done for the reasons people suggest (that Comey got "close" to something), then given the extremely negative stance towards Trump that exists on both sides right now, it's hard to imagine such a thing actually FEELING threatening. Another quick firing would likely just cause Trump MORE trouble, so by firing Comey it'd actually give a level of cover for the next guy to push in deeper. The "message" scenario just doesn't make sense.

So then it's the "To stop the investigation" scenario; but that makes even less sense. The investigation did not likely even hit a speed bump with Comey gone. Undoubtably there's an actual INVESTIGATOR that is tasked with actually leading up the investigation, likely multiple on the various different facets of it. It's not like the leadership of the agency is in disarray; there's routinely practiced and planned contingencies in place for a Director being gone. The deputy steps in, a lower assistance assumes the deputy position temporarily, and things just continue to progress. Firing Comey would do nothing to actually STOP the investigation.

The only way that would possibly make sense would be the idea that Trump would put someone into the FBI Director position that would then stop the investigation themselves. But again, if that was the purpose, it would have made sense to do that from the onset (when the heat on Comey from the left was more fervent anyways) as opposed to now.

It's abundantly possible that the Russian connections somehow, someway, actually tie back in a legitimate and convincing fashion to collusion between Trump and the Russians. I don't think it's likely, but it's feasible. However, I don't really see the Comey firing as having any real impact, or providing any real insight, into how that investigation is being conducted or how it concludes.
Click to expand...

It's possible that Trump wanted to set up a situation, where the FBI director wasn't allowed to recommend prosecution or recommend not to prosecute, regardless of if they found evidence against the Trump campaign. The ostensible reason in the AG letter, is the FBI "exceeded its role as an investigative body." SO, with Comey gone for handling the conclusion of the email investigation, by recommending not to prosecute, Trump set up a situation where the FBI can investigate him and his goons, all they want, but regardless of what they find, they have to turn the investigation over to Trump's Justice Department, without a press conference and without recommending to prosecute.

I don't think Trump's that clever.. but.. maybe Kushner is. Trump wants to axe the FBI out of the equation. Because as long as he can control the justice department and congress, he likely won't see a threat to his power. I don't think Morning Joe has some crystal ball and can see what's really going on. "Call me now for your free reading!" But, I agree generally, that the FBI investigation was picking up steam.

Flynn just got subpoena'd. That's enough to spook Trump. Especially if Flynn knows anything. Remember Flynn asked for immunity a couple months ago. If Flynn is looking at prison, he could flip and say, well.. look, I'll give you the goods on Carter Page.. etc..
 
Winston said:
LOL. You had to be told how to interpret the Comey investigation. Because it is so obviously about the Russian investigation/FBI probe into Trump.

Trump firing Comey because Comey was investigating the Trump campaign, was the final nail in Trump's political coffin. That has made him identical to the Clinton's that you hate.
Click to expand...

LOL not at all. Comey played politics instead of doing his job. which is why I find his doing the right thing comment laughtable. If he had done the right thing then he would have recommended charges for
at least 3 of the laws the Clinton broke while she was SOS.

No he didn't fire him because he was investigating trump if you think you can prove it then do so.
You say so is not evidence. so show us where he was fired over the investigation.
 
ludin said:
LOL not at all. Comey played politics instead of doing his job. which is why I find his doing the right thing comment laughtable. If he had done the right thing then he would have recommended charges for
at least 3 of the laws the Clinton broke while she was SOS.

No he didn't fire him because he was investigating trump if you think you can prove it then do so.
You say so is not evidence. so show us where he was fired over the investigation.
Click to expand...

Trump admitted it on Lester Holt.
 
Winston said:
My comparison is not of the motivation for investigations, but, the mentality of the GOPs. GOPs went after Clinton, mercilessly, and now they want to obstruct justice while crying foul. "Witch hunt" has been tossed around lightly. In my view, Trump did a horrible thing. I trusted James Comey to be an independent investigative body and I look at his departure as a loss to America. My opinion is supported by McCabe's own admission that people in the FBI had a "deep and positive connection" with James Comey.

Did you read Comey's letter on the way out?

page1-463px-James_Comey_FBI_Farewell_Letter_5-10-17.pdf.jpg


Letter of a man wrongfully terminated against the interest of national security and the department he oversaw. Sad day.

Anyway, Trump has to go. Whether or not he actually colluded with Russia, or is compromised by Russia, is irrelevant. The American discourse will never salvage itself. IF you believe the country is more imporant than the politics of Trump, then Trump has to go. Russia is clearly winning with Trump. Americans distrust the media, distrust the intelligence community, distrust everything. Everything is subject to a "fake news" label. It's getting to be untenable. Americans argue about basic reality. There is no unity. With Trump in office, the question will always linger whether or not Russia has meddled with our democracy. Trump's incompetence led him here. If Trump didn't act so guilty by refusing to release his tax returns, truly putting assets in a blind trust, and now firing Comey, and switching stories about why Comey was fired, with explanations running directly contrary to FBI opinion.. The entire thing is a mess. America will never recover honor and truth in our discourse with Trump in office.
Click to expand...

The only problem I have with Comey's firing is the timing. That and the fact that last year most Democrats wanted him gone also. It was either Reid, Schumer or Pelosi who labeled Comey a political pawn or stooge of the Republican Party. Both parties wanted him gone, that is until a few days ago when the Democrats completely reversed course. Party politics?

I don't know if Trump is guilty or not. I can't get pass the political rhetoric, perhaps propaganda coming from both sides. I'm content to wait and see. The FBI is continuing its investigations, no Director needed for that. The polarization of Washington has turned me off both major political parties. The hate exhibited for trump by the Democrats and the hate towards Hillary by the Republicans is down right shameful. It seems to me that Democrats view Republicans as this nations number one, worst enemy way above North Korea, Russia, Iran, AQ, terrorist and anyone or anything else. Of course the Republicans view the Democrats the same way, the Democrats are this nations biggest threat for its survival.

No wonder both major parties are shrinking and losing members, that the majority of Americans view both major parties in a very negative manner. I never voted for Trump, if he has to go, so be it. It would be nice to have an adult in charge instead of an egotistical opportunist who throws temper tantrums via twitter every other day. But in today's political atmosphere in Washington, it won't take but three seconds and the Democrats to set out to destroy Pence also. When a Democrat enters the white house, the Republicans will be dead set on destroying whomever that is. That is what party politics has come down to, destruction.
 
Perotista said:
The only problem I have with Comey's firing is the timing. That and the fact that last year most Democrats wanted him gone also. It was either Reid, Schumer or Pelosi who labeled Comey a political pawn or stooge of the Republican Party. Both parties wanted him gone, that is until a few days ago when the Democrats completely reversed course. Party politics?

I don't know if Trump is guilty or not. I can't get pass the political rhetoric, perhaps propaganda coming from both sides. I'm content to wait and see. The FBI is continuing its investigations, no Director needed for that. The polarization of Washington has turned me off both major political parties. The hate exhibited for trump by the Democrats and the hate towards Hillary by the Republicans is down right shameful. It seems to me that Democrats view Republicans as this nations number one, worst enemy way above North Korea, Russia, Iran, AQ, terrorist and anyone or anything else. Of course the Republicans view the Democrats the same way, the Democrats are this nations biggest threat for its survival.

No wonder both major parties are shrinking and losing members, that the majority of Americans view both major parties in a very negative manner. I never voted for Trump, if he has to go, so be it. It would be nice to have an adult in charge instead of an egotistical opportunist who throws temper tantrums via twitter every other day. But in today's political atmosphere in Washington, it won't take but three seconds and the Democrats to set out to destroy Pence also. When a Democrat enters the white house, the Republicans will be dead set on destroying whomever that is. That is what party politics has come down to, destruction.
Click to expand...

I somewhat agree with you but, I do not think we would be seeing this level of hostility against any of the other Republican presidential primary candidates. Trump brought a lot of this on himself. His big mouth, his carelessness, his disrespect to large subsections of citizens, his dishonesty, and finally, his obstructing justice, has swirled into a crappy American ****shake.
 
Winston said:
I somewhat agree with you but, I do not think we would be seeing this level of hostility against any of the other Republican presidential primary candidates. Trump brought a lot of this on himself. His big mouth, his carelessness, his disrespect to large subsections of citizens, his dishonesty, and finally, his obstructing justice, has swirled into a crappy American ****shake.
Click to expand...

sure you would your partisan glasses are covering reality.

obstructing is a high crime of office so please show evidence.

I didn't here you complaining of obstruction when Lynch came out and said she refused to prosecute Clinton.
even though we actually have evidence she broke several laws.
 
JamesBY said:
Scarborough is the real deal: honest, conservative with conscience, not intimidated by the far right or alt right or alt left.

He tells it as it is. He was for Jeb, which drove this Kasich supporter crazy, but I could accept that he was being honest to his values.

Joe is saying that Trump is on the high wire, and criminal issues are going to push him off without a safety net.

I believe him.
Click to expand...

Being for Jeb... not a conservative position.
 
Winston said:
I don't always agree with Scarborough. He tries to walk that I'm an independent with real conservative values line.. for the most part from what I've seen he is successful. But, I am by no means a regular viewer. I get most of my news in print and online.

Having said that, something that jumps out to me.. and is obvious as day...

GOPs were all for how many Benghazi investigations. Even when they were a waste of tax-payer money. But, now that the investigations are pointed at their golden boy, we hear endless excuses about why this is a "witch hunt" and "unfounded allegations".

Sucks when the shoe's on the other foot, doesn't it. Just because you believe HRC was "above the law" doesn't allow Trump to run amok, especially if you want our democracy to survive his term.

Scarborough sees Trump for what he is. Why can't the rest of you?

Morning Joe says FBI close to exposing the president: ‘It’s a criminal issue — and Trump knows that’
Click to expand...

The plot hole here is that firing Comey would do zilch to stop any investigation into Trump.
 
ludin said:
sure you would your partisan glasses are covering reality.

obstructing is a high crime of office so please show evidence.
Click to expand...

If I go to youtube and find evidence of Trump and Trump surrogates saying that the Comey firing was in part due to the Russian investigation, will you not brush it aside and say, well that doesn't count.
 
Fletch said:
Scarborough spends too much time with Mika and the other liberals on his set and the network. If Comey was close to nailing Trump as Scarborough claims, then Trump will be nailed regardless of who leads the FBI. Why? Because Comeys firing will do nothing to stop or even slow the investigation. Unfortunately, Scarborough is just another boob who has fallen for the Trump/Russian Conspiracy theory.
Click to expand...

If the Comey firing has nothing to do with the FBI investigation why did Trump say it did? Don't you think putting a Trump apologist into Comey's spot might thwart any more investigating? Isn't that the only good reason? So he could put his man at the top? Just because that is not going to happen does not mean it was not on Trump's mind. Trump is undoubtedly guilty of collusion he has been colluding with Russians for a decade. Why would he stop? Why would he turn down help with his campaign when he couldn't turn down the dirty money from Russian oligarchs? Like the one bought a home from him for twice it's value and then bulldozed it down. You just can't make stuff like this up.
 
Last edited:
Winston said:
If I go to youtube and find evidence of Trump and Trump surrogates saying that the Comey firing was in part due to the Russian investigation, will you not brush it aside and say, well that doesn't count.
Click to expand...

youtube is meaningless. obstruction of justice is a high crime of office. you show me evidence that trump knowingly fired comey in efforts to stop an ongoing investigation.
because he didn't.

I can tell you that right now regardless of what your left wing says.
there were numerous reasons and he had thought about firing him on jan 20th.

the whole fake conspiracy theory of Russia trump is just another reason.

multiple intelligence committee members have come out multiple times and said there is no evidence
that trump colluded.

as I said before you guys just keep dreaming. you are almost as bad as truthers. you deny reality
 
Perotista said:
Yeah, but how many Americans run an international company?
Click to expand...

And how many international companies have become as dependent on Russian money as Trump co.? I bet there aren't many. Not legitimate companies at least.
 
ludin said:
youtube is meaningless. obstruction of justice is a high crime of office. you show me evidence that trump knowingly fired comey in efforts to stop an ongoing investigation.
because he didn't.

I can tell you that right now regardless of what your left wing says.
there were numerous reasons and he had thought about firing him on jan 20th.

the whole fake conspiracy theory of Russia trump is just another reason.

multiple intelligence committee members have come out multiple times and said there is no evidence
that trump colluded.

as I said before you guys just keep dreaming. you are almost as bad as truthers. you deny reality
Click to expand...

So.. You will brush aside Trump admitting he fired Comey in part, because of the Russian investigation. That's all I need to know to not waste my time.
 
ludin said:
youtube is meaningless. obstruction of justice is a high crime of office. you show me evidence that trump knowingly fired comey in efforts to stop an ongoing investigation.
because he didn't.

I can tell you that right now regardless of what your left wing says.
there were numerous reasons and he had thought about firing him on jan 20th.

the whole fake conspiracy theory of Russia trump is just another reason.

multiple intelligence committee members have come out multiple times and said there is no evidence
that trump colluded.

as I said before you guys just keep dreaming. you are almost as bad as truthers. you deny reality
Click to expand...

LOL! The only ones denying reality here are those who can't accept the fact that Trump admitted to firing to end the Russian probe. Whether it would have the effect of actually doing so is utterly irrelevant to the fact that he obstructed justice and admitted to having done so in the Holt interview. There are no two ways about it, despite your desperate attempts to portray this as something it's not.

You should really look into trying reality one day. It's scary at first, but it's quite rewarding.
 
Winston said:
I don't always agree with Scarborough. He tries to walk that I'm an independent with real conservative values line.. for the most part from what I've seen he is successful. But, I am by no means a regular viewer. I get most of my news in print and online.

Having said that, something that jumps out to me.. and is obvious as day...

GOPs were all for how many Benghazi investigations. Even when they were a waste of tax-payer money. But, now that the investigations are pointed at their golden boy, we hear endless excuses about why this is a "witch hunt" and "unfounded allegations".

Sucks when the shoe's on the other foot, doesn't it. Just because you believe HRC was "above the law" doesn't allow Trump to run amok, especially if you want our democracy to survive his term.

Scarborough sees Trump for what he is. Why can't the rest of you?

Morning Joe says FBI close to exposing the president: ‘It’s a criminal issue — and Trump knows that’
Click to expand...

The title says that he believes not that he knows. No point in reading further.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
LOL! The only ones denying reality here are those who can't accept the fact that Trump admitted to firing to end the Russian probe. Whether it would have the effect of actually doing so is utterly irrelevant to the fact that he obstructed justice and admitted to having done so in the Holt interview. There are no two ways about it, despite your desperate attempts to portray this as something it's not. You should really look into trying reality one day. It's scary at first, but it's quite rewarding.
Click to expand...


The FBI has officially processed the Holt Interview as an exhibit and is following up with interviews of Holt himself. Trump burned himself yet again, this time badly.
 
Winston said:
I somewhat agree with you but, I do not think we would be seeing this level of hostility against any of the other Republican presidential primary candidates. Trump brought a lot of this on himself. His big mouth, his carelessness, his disrespect to large subsections of citizens, his dishonesty, and finally, his obstructing justice, has swirled into a crappy American ****shake.
Click to expand...

If a John Kasich or perhaps a Rubio had won the nomination and thus the presidency, I agree they wouldn't be facing the hostility from the media. They knew Washington and politics, more of the ins and outs. They would have tread more lightly and not stepped on so many toes. Yes, Trump brought a lot of this on himself. Calling people names like a 5 year old who hasn't been taught manners yet. Speaking without thinking and then blaming others for the things he said.

But the mood in Washington is toxic. The Democrats didn't wait a minute after Trump became president to start piling on him, the politics of destruction. At least the Republicans gave Obama about a year. Until the ACA anyway. That poisoned the atmosphere big time. The birther issue brought up by some of the GOP sucked, it was asinine. I call it the politics of personal destruction. The Democrats are returning that personal destruction in spades.

But quite a lot of the country was sick and tired of business as usual in Washington, its polarization and gridlock. The failure of the two major parties to even talk to each other let alone to sit down and figure out how to accomplish things. I personally don' think Trump will last his full term. He is an obnoxious, egotistical, opportunistic __________fill in the blank.

I think you will see more and more Republicans begin to distance themselves from him. Many Republicans still don't consider him a Republican. Is there a there, there? I don't know. But your are correct, a lot of this was brought on Trump himself during the primaries and the general.
 
JamesBY said:
Far more con than Trump, thank you for that point.
Click to expand...

Jeb is a big government solutions guy, very much not a take on the immigration issues guy. Also, we didn't need a third freaking Bush in the WH.
 
JamesBY said:
The FBI has officially processed the Holt Interview as an exhibit and is following up with interviews of Holt himself. Trump burned himself yet again, this time badly.
Click to expand...

Proof of 'officially processing' the interview and what does that mean?
 
iguanaman said:
If the Comey firing has nothing to do with the FBI investigation why did Trump say it did? Don't you think putting a Trump apologist into Comey's spot might thwart any more investigating? Isn't that the only good reason? So he could put his man at the top? Just because that is not going to happen does not mean it was not on Trump's mind. Trump is undoubtedly guilty of collusion he has been colluding with Russians for a decade. Why would he stop? Why would he turn down help with his campaign when he couldn't turn down the dirty money from Russian oligarchs? Like the one bought a home from him for twice it's value and then bulldozed it down. You just can't make stuff like this up.
Click to expand...

How is this real estate deal from 2008 evidence of anything other than your being deep into CT territory? The Russian didn't 'pay twice its value' that's just a lie. Just as your accusation of collusion is a lie. There is really no difference any longer between '2016 Colluders' and '9/11 Truthers.' I gave up wasting my time arguing with the 'Truthers' years ago. You 'Colluders' aren't far behind.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom