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Trump puts America at the Crossroads

Cigar said:
Look Over There; Democrats :lamo

Look Over There; Obama
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The FBI, believe it or not, has thousands of agents and can actually investigate more than one thing at a time. We all get that you wish the FBI (or anybody else) to find Trump campaign/Russian collusion - the only problem with "going after" Trump, or any Trump campaign staff, is that you need actual evidence of such collusion to proceed further. If that collusion evidence is so clear then why, after over 9 months of FBI investigating, has it not been found? Meanwhile, we all know that classified FISA data, including the unmasked name of Flynn, was leaked to the WaPo yet not a peep of concern about that (lack of?) investigation.
 
Rexedgar said:
Ma'am, You have to be patient. It's like a fog lifting as the sun gets higher in the sky. A little murky At daybreak and about mid morning things clear up real well. Don't give up just yet......
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I'm not giving up on anything, man. I've been mostly on the neutral side of this Russia debacle.

If hard evidence turns up that shows collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign, then I'll get behind the impeach Trump crowd 100%. But until this issue is investigated thoroughly, I don't want to take any sides.
 
haymarket said:
Checks and balances must be EXERCISED. Words on a piece of paper mean NOTHING if they are not backed with actions.

With every passing week the Russian investigation takes on more and more substance as the dots are getting connected .... slowly. We now need a Special Prosecutor and a truly bi-partisan commission to take this over so it can have the faith and confidence of the American people.
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Which dots are you referring to? It seems and did at the time of the election seem certain to me that Trump had and persons on his staff had had contacts with Russian persons and officials. It was furthermore clear that either candidate was fine for Putin, as the credibility of both would obviously be easily undermined. That this would be more efficiently achieved with Trump was equally obvious, given his inexperience, alienation of the media and intransparent dealings. These were all part of the reason I was so unhappy with the candidates and the candidate that took the cookie.
Those dots were all known. So, which are new?
 
haymarket said:
This is the MOMENT. The Comey firing at this moment to try and kill the investigation that is slowly closing in on Trump and many of his people forces an impending constitutional crisis that harkens back to he days of Nixon and Watergate.
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He was fired because he, himself was found out to be the leaker of the unmasked Flynn transcript. Rather than put the man on trial and then send him to prison, Trump showed mercy and simply fired him.
 
Vetplus40 said:
The problem is the plethora of mindless "closet racists" that continue to support anything he says or does. Trump isn't the real problem. These folks are.
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I do not know if all the Trump apologists are closet racists... some perhaps... others not so much or not at all. What I do know is that a decision has been made within the GOP in Congress that they will support Trump because it means the advancing of their legislative agenda. They want tax cuts for the rich and for corporations. They want deregulation in many areas of the economy. They want general decreases in the domestic impact of government as an institution. And they believe Trump will facilitate those goals.

So they are willing to look the other way at all Trumps faults and defects gambling that they can achieve their agenda items over time.

The real question then becomes if this deal with the devil bites America in the ass and harms our very institutions of democracy.

I believe it will.
 
joG said:
Which dots are you referring to? It seems and did at the time of the election seem certain to me that Trump had and persons on his staff had had contacts with Russian persons and officials. It was furthermore clear that either candidate was fine for Putin, as the credibility of both would obviously be easily undermined. That this would be more efficiently achieved with Trump was equally obvious, given his inexperience, alienation of the media and intransparent dealings. These were all part of the reason I was so unhappy with the candidates and the candidate that took the cookie.
Those dots were all known. So, which are new?
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The dots are Trump people..... Carter Page .... Roger Stone .... Paul Manafort .... General Flynn ..... and the Trump financial interests tied into Russia.
 
ocean515 said:
LOL

So you are in the group of ideologues who actually think the investigation is now over.
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I never said that so your post fails on this false premise. The investigations are not now over. But I do think Trump did his best with this Comey firing to send a very strong message that as they proceed - do so at your own peril and learn the lesson Comey should have learned...... and that lesson is clear: pretend you are investigating but don't look to carefully, don't get too close, don't upset the Trump apple cart, limit your inquiries, do more about the focus on leaks and unmasking, and most assuredly don't ever get near campaign cooperation or collision with the Russians.

Otherwise - carry on with your investigations so a few months from now we can cite them and say that nothing was found and Trump and his people were cleared.
 
Jack Fabulous said:
He was fired because he, himself was found out to be the leaker of the unmasked Flynn transcript. Rather than put the man on trial and then send him to prison, Trump showed mercy and simply fired him.
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If Flynn is truly the "leaker," then this makes for a possible scenario.

One HAS to wonder why Trump would fire the very man who is responsible for swaying the vote that allowed Trump to get elected in the first place. He should be indebted to Comey.

Myself, I think Comey should have been fired long ago. The timing raises an eyebrow.
 
Jack Fabulous said:
He was fired because he, himself was found out to be the leaker of the unmasked Flynn transcript. Rather than put the man on trial and then send him to prison, Trump showed mercy and simply fired him.
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Unsubstantiated speculation on your part.
 
Captain America said:
If Flynn is truly the "leaker," then this makes for a possible scenario.

One HAS to wonder why Trump would fire the very man who is responsible for swaying the vote that allowed Trump to get elected in the first place. He should be indebted to Comey.

Myself, I think Comey should have been fired long ago. The timing raises an eyebrow.
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My reply was facetious. The thread was started with a wildly speculative and totally unsupported statement presented as fact. It deserved a response in kind.
 
haymarket said:
I never said that so your post fails on this false premise. The investigations are not now over. But I do think Trump did his best with this Comey firing to send a very strong message that as they proceed - do so at your own peril and learn the lesson Comey should have learned...... and that lesson is clear: pretend you are investigating but don't look to carefully, don't get too close, don't upset the Trump apple cart, limit your inquiries, do more about the focus on leaks and unmasking, and most assuredly don't ever get near campaign cooperation or collision with the Russians.

Otherwise - carry on with your investigations so a few months from now we can cite them and say that nothing was found and Trump and his people were cleared.
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Do so at your own peril? How far off the planet does one have to be to clutch at that narrative?

Comey was universally disliked for his handling of investigations. More so by those on the left, who engaged their MSM partners in attacking him.

President Trump fires the man, and now, all of a sudden, it's a giant conspiracy to stop an investigation into Trump/Russia that's getting too close.

Of course we're supposed to ignore the fact things aren't too rosy between the United States and President Trump's apparent good buddy Putin. That fact requires people to believe it's just a ruse to cover up Russia's partnership with Trump.

I can't imagine the leaps of mind and soul that must occur daily in order to believe all this fantasy the left's noise machine puts out daily.
 
Jack Fabulous said:
And not at all ironic that the OP of the thread is ALSO unsubstantiated speculation.;)
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Not the same thing at all. The OP did not make any unsubstantiated claim. It is obviously an expression of opinion. Your post was not.
 
devildavid said:
Not the same thing at all. The OP did not make any unsubstantiated claim. It is obviously an expression of opinion. Your post was not.
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It didn't?

The Comey firing at this moment to try and kill the investigation that is slowly closing in on Trump and many of his people
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Substantiate that claim with fact. I'll wait...
 
haymarket said:
This is the MOMENT. The Comey firing at this moment to try and kill the investigation that is slowly closing in on Trump and many of his people forces an impending constitutional crisis that harkens back to he days of Nixon and Watergate. In that crisis, both parties in Congress stepped forward, the Congress did its job, the courts did their job, and the Constitution prevailed. This is finally the time when one of two things will happen:

1- the GOP in Congress finally gets a spine and begins to exercise their Constitutional responsibilities of checks and balances and takes Trump to task and lays the groundwork to get rid of him as an abusive authoritarian of dubious mental state and terrible political temperament.

or

2- Trumps drive towards authoritarianism continues to plod ahead as GOP members of Congress lack the fortitude... the guts ... the plain old balls to upset the apple cart and oppose him because their higher priorities are tax cuts for corporations and the rich and deregulation of corporations.

It is every bit a Constitutional Crisis as the entire system of checks and balances is highly dependent on one thing that goes far far far beyond mere words on a page and that is WILLPOWER to actually make those checks and balances real.

Authoritarianism can come to the USA with the American flag up front of that parade and all it takes is major party control of all branches and a willingness to do their job and look the other way attiring doing and incompetence.

Which one will it be? This is the MOMENT.
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devildavid said:
That is obvious speculation. Your post was phrased as if something actually took place.
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Read it...

This is the MOMENT. The Comey firing at this moment to try and kill the investigation that is slowly closing in on Trump and many of his people forces an impending constitutional crisis that harkens back to he days of Nixon and Watergate.
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There is nothing obviously speculative about the way it is written. "To try and kill the investigation that IS slowly closing in..." is written as a statement of fact. And I'll have you notice that the OP ran away without reply... because he knows it, too.
 
ocean515 said:
Do so at your own peril? How far off the planet does one have to be to clutch at that narrative?

Comey was universally disliked for his handling of investigations. More so by those on the left, who engaged their MSM partners in attacking him.

President Trump fires the man, and now, all of a sudden, it's a giant conspiracy to stop an investigation into Trump/Russia that's getting too close.

Of course we're supposed to ignore the fact things aren't too rosy between the United States and President Trump's apparent good buddy Putin. That fact requires people to believe it's just a ruse to cover up Russia's partnership with Trump.

I can't imagine the leaps of mind and soul that must occur daily in order to believe all this fantasy the left's noise machine puts out daily.
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Do you understand the definition, meaning and implications of the word TIMING?
 
haymarket said:
Same question to you. Do you understand the definition, meaning and implications of the word TIMING?
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There is no timing that would appeal to trump haters
 
TheGoverness said:
The dots aren't really being connected. At most there's a ton of implication, but no direct picture of what is allegedly going on.
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I do not know what you have been observing for the last several months but it is certainly not the reality I and others have been observing.

Russia engaged in a campaign of trying to hijack and corrupt and influence our elections on behalf of Donald Trump the candidate who publicly invited them to get involved in our election process. That is a very very very clear picture.
 
haymarket said:
Do you understand the definition, meaning and implications of the word TIMING?
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Yes, as a matter of fact I do.

So the logic of your argument is that someone the left has gone to great lengths to disparage, should remain in place because the optics don't look good at the moment.

And would they look better in 6 months? Would the left prefer a guy they have publicly scorned remain in place that long, so that the man in the White House they hate will look better?

Do you understand the definition, meaning, and implications of the word LOGIC?

It's been my experience a good leader takes action when required, despite the optics, rather than refrain from making a good decision because of them.
 
Mac77 said:
There is no timing that would appeal to trump haters
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Not true. I would have been very happy if Obama had fired Comey last July. He did not.

I would have been very happy if Obama had fired Comey late last October or in November. He did not.

Once we knew that Comey was heading up an investigation into Trumps campaign activities and subsequent transition activities - it became too late to fire him without a finding by the IG who is investigating him without risking the obvious cry of COVER UP.
 
ocean515 said:
Yes, as a matter of fact I do.

So the logic of your argument is that someone the left has gone to great lengths to disparage, should remain in place because the optics don't look good at the moment.

And would they look better in 6 months? Would the left prefer a guy they have publicly scorned remain in place that long, so that the man in the White House they hate will look better?

Do you understand the definition, meaning, and implications of the word LOGIC?

It's been my experience a good leader takes action when required, despite the optics, rather than refrain from making a good decision because of them.
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Obviously you claim you do, but your posts strongly say you do not. See my previous post above - #48 - for the reasons.
 
haymarket said:
I do not know what you have been observing for the last several months but it is certainly not the reality I and others have been observing.

Russia engaged in a campaign of trying to hijack and corrupt and influence our elections on behalf of Donald Trump the candidate who publicly invited them to get involved in our election process. That is a very very very clear picture.
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The only picture I'm getting, is equivalent to someone handing me a connect-the-dots worksheet without any numbers, and I'm supposed to guess how all of the points connect with one another.
 
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