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How is Flynn Obama's fault?

This isn't rocket science. Nothing is EVER Trumps fault. Trumps fragile ego cannot accept reality. This is why any negative poll numbers are " fake news".
 
Mycroft said:
The issue isn't about why Obama hired or fired him...or, why Trump hired him. The issue is that Obama vetted Flynn and then hired him. Trump trusted Obama's vetting and then hired him.

Perhaps Trump shouldn't have been so trusting of Obama, eh?
Click to expand...

It pretty clear what Flynn offered the Trump campaign. Russian help in defeating Hillary. Once Trump took the bait, Flynn could write his own ticket. Until the FBI Id'ed him as a traitor. Trump still has not said a bad word about Flynn OR Putin. He does not want Flynn to "sing". I smell a pardon in Flynn's future IF he keeps his mouth shut.
 
NIMBY said:
The best thing that can happen for DEMs is what's happening, trump --lies--denial--blame--coverup--prolonging the agony.

There are enough elections before the end of THIS year to ingraine in Americans the feeling that elections can be 24/7, keeping DEMs interested .
Click to expand...

Yes, It appears Trump has learned nothing from Nixon and Watergate. The cover-ups are what get them.
 
Mycroft said:
No. You are overthinking things. Trump trusted Obama's vetting. Just because Obama later fired the guy doesn't mean the guy was bad for Trump. It just means he was bad for Obama.
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Flynn wasn't "vetted" under the Obama administration. He was active duty military with a top secret security clearance. "Vetting" is much more broad than just that component and Trump's transition team was incompetent in their job of properly vetting Flynn. in other words, this **** up is nothing more than the continuing saga of incompetence and the "blaming of others" that permeates the Trump administration.
 
iguanaman said:
It pretty clear what Flynn offered the Trump campaign. Russian help in defeating Hillary. Once Trump took the bait, Flynn could write his own ticket. Until the FBI Id'ed him as a traitor. Trump still has not said a bad word about Flynn OR Putin. He does not want Flynn to "sing". I smell a pardon in Flynn's future IF he keeps his mouth shut.
Click to expand...

Really? The FBI ID's him a traitor? I must have missed that.

You got a link?
 
haymarket said:
Is there somebody who can explain the logic behind the charge that Mike Flynn's problems are the fault of Obama?

‘Not Trump’s fault’: House oversight chair Chaffetz blames Obama administration for failing to vet Flynn



This started yesterday and now today we get Spicey trotting it out - apparently to see if anybody salutes and they can sell it.



Now Spicey never stated what he meant by "full knowledge of his activities in 2015" nor did he provide any evidence of that allegation - but it looks like he is trying to inoculate Trump with this move. Not did Spicey say what the clearance was for, if it was applied for or any of the details that supposedly went with it.

Note how Spicy did NOT answer that really great question which was about The TRUMP vetting of Flynn -something Obama had absolutely nothing to do with in any way shape or form. In fact, Trump supposedly vetted Flynn for VP.

Can anybody say "extreme vetting"?


I really don't see how they are going to connect the dots here especially as they are on different pages of different books. But lets hear it.

Tell us how all the governmental and legal problems of Mike Flynn that he got into while part of the Trump campaign... the Trump transition... and the Trump administration .... are the fault of Barack Obama and his administration. This should be good.
Click to expand...

It looks like Flynn was fired or forced out by the Defense Department. Whether that was for cause or for expediency is anybody's guess. "The Los Angeles Times" is nobody's idea of a right leaning publication or an anti-Obama publication and their 2014 account of Flynn's leaving the Defense Dept. seems pretty straightforward that he was trying to reform and modernize a dinosaur that didn't want to be reformed at the Defense Intelligence Agency. The article was updated to indicate he was well thought of at the DIA.
Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn quits as chief of Pentagon intelligence agency - LA Times


Flynn's security clearance was renewed just last year though so the Defense Dept. obviously did not do any vetting to renew that. And that would suggest Flynn had a clean record so far as the Obama Administration was concerned--this would be my guess. But if Flynn didn't divulge improper payments from Russia, I don't really blame the Obama Administration for not catching the problem at that time but it did happen on their watch. So far Flynn has not been indicted for any crime but there is only speculation that he may have violated U.S. law.

AND I don't fault the Trump Administration for taking him on based on his government credentials and reputation and high level security clearance. And I don't fault the Trump Administration for letting him go when he misled them. None of any dealings with Russia occurred since the election, however, and there was nothing to indicate it was a problem at the time.

But saying that it was on Obama's watch or by Obama's White House or the Obama Administration is not saying that it is personally Obama's fault. But it did happen on Obama's watch and the Trump Administration had nothing to do with it. And the buck stops here as the saying goes.

The media is still hugely hypocritical in nitpicking semantics regarding anything in the Trump administration and using that method to deflect from the actual issue that they should be focused on.
 
AlbqOwl said:
It looks like Flynn was fired or forced out by the Defense Department. Whether that was for cause or for expediency is anybody's guess. "The Los Angeles Times" is nobody's idea of a right leaning publication or an anti-Obama publication and their 2014 account of Flynn's leaving the Defense Dept. seems pretty straightforward that he was trying to reform and modernize a dinosaur that didn't want to be reformed at the Defense Intelligence Agency. The article was updated to indicate he was well thought of at the DIA.
Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn quits as chief of Pentagon intelligence agency - LA Times


Flynn's security clearance was renewed just last year though so the Defense Dept. obviously did not do any vetting to renew that. And that would suggest Flynn had a clean record so far as the Obama Administration was concerned--this would be my guess. But if Flynn didn't divulge improper payments from Russia, I don't really blame the Obama Administration for not catching the problem at that time but it did happen on their watch. So far Flynn has not been indicted for any crime but there is only speculation that he may have violated U.S. law.

AND I don't fault the Trump Administration for taking him on based on his government credentials and reputation and high level security clearance. And I don't fault the Trump Administration for letting him go when he misled them. None of any dealings with Russia occurred since the election, however, and there was nothing to indicate it was a problem at the time.

But saying that it was on Obama's watch or by Obama's White House or the Obama Administration is not saying that it is personally Obama's fault. But it did happen on Obama's watch and the Trump Administration had nothing to do with it. And the buck stops here as the saying goes.

The media is still hugely hypocritical in nitpicking semantics regarding anything in the Trump administration and using that method to deflect from the actual issue that they should be focused on.
Click to expand...


You make many good points. Where I differ is when you do not fault the Trump people for failing to properly vet Flynn. That is totally upon them.

It was just irresponsible for them NOT to do that given the level of high importance Flynn was to have in that administration. Face it, they rolled the dice and took a chance and they ended up rolling snake eyes. It on them and not on Obama since they flushed him away via the firing.
 
haymarket said:
You make many good points. Where I differ is when you do not fault the Trump people for failing to properly vet Flynn. That is totally upon them.

It was just irresponsible for them NOT to do that given the level of high importance Flynn was to have in that administration. Face it, they rolled the dice and took a chance and they ended up rolling snake eyes. It on them and not on Obama since they flushed him away via the firing.
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They did vet everybody they took on based on the information available to them. Have you ever been in the position to hire and fire people? I have. And you do as much reasonable research on people as you can and are reasonably sure you have chosen the right person for the job. And it is only later that you find out the person is not as he or she seemed. And is it your fault that you didn't think to ask if they were free lancing as a hooker or running an illegal pyramid scheme out of their basement or whatever? Technically yes, but not suspecting people of such things is understandable. And of course if you do ask and they say no, and there is no reason to disbelieve them, you believe them.

So I can't fault Trump or anybody in his administration for not asking a highly decorated military officer with a top security clearance whether he had ever taken possibly illegal payments from Russia. The time to ask that was when the security clearance was issued, and I think even the DIA could be forgiven for not thinking to ask that particular question. And Flynn didn't volunteer the information to either.
 
AlbqOwl said:
They did vet everybody they took on based on the information available to them. Have you ever been in the position to hire and fire people? I have. And you do as much reasonable research on people as you can and are reasonably sure you have chosen the right person for the job. And it is only later that you find out the person is not as he or she seemed. And is it your fault that you didn't think to ask if they were free lancing as a hooker or running an illegal pyramid scheme out of their basement or whatever? Technically yes, but not suspecting people of such things is understandable. And of course if you do ask and they say no, and there is no reason to disbelieve them, you believe them.

So I can't fault Trump or anybody in his administration for not asking a highly decorated military officer with a top security clearance whether he had ever taken possibly illegal payments from Russia. The time to ask that was when the security clearance was issued, and I think even the DIA could be forgiven for not thinking to ask that particular question. And Flynn didn't volunteer the information to either.
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I remember when i left teaching and became chief of staff for a Michigan legislator, we had to hire two staff people and even when laying out some strict criteria we got over fifty applicants. Probably forty already had experience working for other legislators and some had my position and were not applying to be aides. It fell on me to hire and I still checked out the references of the final three or four and talked directly to the legislators they had worked for. Its simple checking the boxes.

So the Trump organization took a chance .... they gambled ...... they rolled the dice..... and they came up losers on Flynn. They have nobody to blame but themselves and the responsibility is theirs.
 
haymarket said:
I remember when i left teaching and became chief of staff for a Michigan legislator, we had to hire two staff people and even when laying out some strict criteria we got over fifty applicants. Probably forty already had experience working for other legislators and some had my position and were not applying to be aides. It fell on me to hire and I still checked out the references of the final three or four and talked directly to the legislators they had worked for. Its simple checking the boxes.

So the Trump organization took a chance .... they gambled ...... they rolled the dice..... and they came up losers on Flynn. They have nobody to blame but themselves and the responsibility is theirs.
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If you have never hired somebody who surprised you in a bad way, you're very lucky. I am not so perfect myself and I have made mistakes now and then. It isn't a matter of rolling dice. It's just the way it is some of the time. Even people who have lived with people for years often don't know everything about that other person and his/her activities.

It is not Trump's fault and probably not Obama's fault to not know that Flynn broke the law, if he in fact did. But he worked for the Dept. of Defense for Obama until 2014. It was the Obama Administration that renewed his top security clearance in 2016. It was the Obama Administration that did not fully vet him.

Were there red flags? Of course there were. Hindsight is always 20/20. But were they obvious to those reviewing the credentials and background and aptitude/experience of those who were being brought into the Administration? Almost certainly they weren't. And with somebody of Flynn's apparently impeccable credentials other than clashing with high command in the Defense Dept.--something Trump would most likely not hold against a person--and by virtue of that high security clearance that would suggest he was clean of any malfeasance or wrong doing, it is hard to blame the Trump Administration for missing it.

It was the Obama Administration's duty to vet Flynn. Can they be forgiven for not catching unexpected activities that could have been illegal and called that security clearance into question? Yes they can. But they either knew about it and didn't care or they did miss it.
 
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AlbqOwl said:
If you have never hired somebody who surprised you in a bad way, you're very lucky. I am not so perfect myself and I have made mistakes now and then. It isn't a matter of rolling dice. It's just the way it is some of the time. Even people who have lived with people for years often don't know everything about that other person and his/her activities.

It is not Trump's fault and probably not Obama's fault to not know that Flynn broke the law, if he in fact did. But he worked for the Dept. of Defense for Obama until 2014. It was the Obama Administration that renewed his top security clearance in 2016. It was the Obama Administration that did not fully vet him.

Were there red flags? Of course there were. Hindsight is always 20/20. But were they obvious to those reviewing the credentials and background and aptitude/experience of those who were being brought into the Administration? Almost certainly they weren't. And with somebody of Flynn's apparently impeccable credentials other than clashing with high command in the Defense Dept.--something Trump would most likely not hold against a person--and by virtue of that high security clearance that would suggest he was clean of any malfeasance or wrong doing, it is hard to blame the Trump Administration for missing it.
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Again, I agree that you make some good points. It is very possible that Trump had his mind made up about Flynn and any so called vetting that was done was perfunctory at best and shoddy at the worst and nobody bothered to really do a proper vetting - let alone anything approaching "extreme vetting". But again, I do think that is gambling given the high stakes of the job Flynn was being hired for.

What bugs me about this is the attempt by Spicer to pretend that this is somehow the fault of Obama and his administration. That reeks.

It was the Obama Administration's duty to vet Flynn. Can they be forgiven for not catching unexpected activities that could have been illegal and called that security clearance into question? Yes they can. But they either knew about it and didn't care or they did miss it
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And how do you know that was not done when they hired Flynn? And so far we know next to nothing about this so called security clearance Spicer referred to that the Obama administration gave to Flynn long after he was fired.

We are talking about two very very different things here and to pretend that one is just like the other is ridiculous.
 
AlbqOwl said:
It looks like Flynn was fired or forced out by the Defense Department. Whether that was for cause or for expediency is anybody's guess. "The Los Angeles Times" is nobody's idea of a right leaning publication or an anti-Obama publication and their 2014 account of Flynn's leaving the Defense Dept. seems pretty straightforward that he was trying to reform and modernize a dinosaur that didn't want to be reformed at the Defense Intelligence Agency. The article was updated to indicate he was well thought of at the DIA.
Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn quits as chief of Pentagon intelligence agency - LA Times


Flynn's security clearance was renewed just last year though so the Defense Dept. obviously did not do any vetting to renew that. And that would suggest Flynn had a clean record so far as the Obama Administration was concerned--this would be my guess. But if Flynn didn't divulge improper payments from Russia, I don't really blame the Obama Administration for not catching the problem at that time but it did happen on their watch. So far Flynn has not been indicted for any crime but there is only speculation that he may have violated U.S. law.

AND I don't fault the Trump Administration for taking him on based on his government credentials and reputation and high level security clearance. And I don't fault the Trump Administration for letting him go when he misled them. None of any dealings with Russia occurred since the election, however, and there was nothing to indicate it was a problem at the time.

But saying that it was on Obama's watch or by Obama's White House or the Obama Administration is not saying that it is personally Obama's fault. But it did happen on Obama's watch and the Trump Administration had nothing to do with it. And the buck stops here as the saying goes.

The media is still hugely hypocritical in nitpicking semantics regarding anything in the Trump administration and using that method to deflect from the actual issue that they should be focused on.
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A fair assessment.

:thumbs:
 
haymarket said:
Again, I agree that you make some good points. It is very possible that Trump had his mind made up about Flynn and any so called vetting that was done was perfunctory at best and shoddy at the worst and nobody bothered to really do a proper vetting - let alone anything approaching "extreme vetting". But again, I do think that is gambling given the high stakes of the job Flynn was being hired for.

What bugs me about this is the attempt by Spicer to pretend that this is somehow the fault of Obama and his administration. That reeks.



And how do you know that was not done when they hired Flynn? And so far we know next to nothing about this so called security clearance Spicer referred to that the Obama administration gave to Flynn long after he was fired.

We are talking about two very very different things here and to pretend that one is just like the other is ridiculous.
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We are talking about whose duty it was to vet Flynn. I think Spicer is quite right that it was the Obama Administration's duty to vet those it gives any security clearance to, let alone a very high level or top security clearance.

Flynn apparently didn't report receiving payments from Russia when his security clearance was renewed in 2016.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/michael-flynn-didn-apos-t-154144570.html

And even "Politico," one of the most anti-Trump publications on the planet, admits that Spicer didn't accuse the Obama administration but only cited that the Administration did issue the security clearance. It is the leftwing media that is distorting the story:

. . .Spicer stopped short of suggesting that the Obama administration deserved blame for re-upping Flynn’s clearance in 2016 despite his paid speaking gig in Russia. But he did explain that the Trump administration had not run its own check on Flynn, assuming that the Obama-era security clearance would have been sufficient.

“We trust that when you were cleared the first time, if you were cleared on December 15th or January 20th, that you were still -- that your background check still cleared. Every individual [who] came into this White House either applied for a security clearance or had one.” Spicer said. “Why would you rerun a background check on someone who was the head of the Department of Defense intelligence agency that had and did maintain a high-level security clearance?”
Spicer: Obama administration responsible for Flynn's security clearance - POLITICO

The Trump Administration no doubt became aware of the problem in February, 2017, soon followed by a request that Flynn resig, when the Defense Dept. suspended Flynn's security clearance.
Michael Flynn's security clearance has reportedly been suspended - Business Insider​
 
katzgar said:
Trumps base and the Republican base arent 100% the same
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Republicans vote based on ideals, things we want to happen, low taxes, trade, etc. The Trump base voted out of fear and because they can't resist the shiny objects.
 
AlbqOwl said:
We are talking about whose duty it was to vet Flynn. I think Spicer is quite right that it was the Obama Administration's duty to vet those it gives any security clearance to, let alone a very high level or top security clearance.

Flynn apparently didn't report receiving payments from Russia when his security clearance was renewed in 2016.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/michael-flynn-didn-apos-t-154144570.html

And even "Politico," one of the most anti-Trump publications on the planet, admits that Spicer didn't accuse the Obama administration but only cited that the Administration did issue the security clearance. It is the leftwing media that is distorting the story:

. . .Spicer stopped short of suggesting that the Obama administration deserved blame for re-upping Flynn’s clearance in 2016 despite his paid speaking gig in Russia. But he did explain that the Trump administration had not run its own check on Flynn, assuming that the Obama-era security clearance would have been sufficient.

“We trust that when you were cleared the first time, if you were cleared on December 15th or January 20th, that you were still -- that your background check still cleared. Every individual [who] came into this White House either applied for a security clearance or had one.” Spicer said. “Why would you rerun a background check on someone who was the head of the Department of Defense intelligence agency that had and did maintain a high-level security clearance?”
Spicer: Obama administration responsible for Flynn's security clearance - POLITICO

The Trump Administration no doubt became aware of the problem in February, 2017, soon followed by a request that Flynn resig, when the Defense Dept. suspended Flynn's security clearance.
Michael Flynn's security clearance has reportedly been suspended - Business Insider​
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Wrong. Pence was aware of the problems involving Flynn back in December, and he STILL got appointed. This whole "WHOA THAT'S OUT OF LEFT FIELD!" charade is just that. A charade.

Elijah Cummings letter to Mike Pence about Flynn Turkey lobbying - Business Insider​
 
Tanngrisnir said:
Wrong. Pence was aware of the problems involving Flynn back in December, and he STILL got appointed. This whole "WHOA THAT'S OUT OF LEFT FIELD!" charade is just that. A charade.

Elijah Cummings letter to Mike Pence about Flynn Turkey lobbying - Business Insider
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So it's a he said and he said situation. Did Cummings certify the letter? Did Pence sign for it? Can anybody prove that Pence received it or read it? It wouldn't be the first time Cummings stretched the truth while Pence has not had any such track record.
 
AlbqOwl said:
So it's a he said and he said situation. Did Cummings certify the letter? Did Pence sign for it? Can anybody prove that Pence received it or read it? It wouldn't be the first time Cummings stretched the truth while Pence has not had any such track record.
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Oh, please. More rabid denial of factual history.

Not interested in fantasy land BX.

Pence is a well known liar. Deal with it.
 
AlbqOwl said:
We are talking about whose duty it was to vet Flynn. I think Spicer is quite right that it was the Obama Administration's duty to vet those it gives any security clearance to, let alone a very high level or top security clearance.

Flynn apparently didn't report receiving payments from Russia when his security clearance was renewed in 2016.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/michael-flynn-didn-apos-t-154144570.html

And even "Politico," one of the most anti-Trump publications on the planet, admits that Spicer didn't accuse the Obama administration but only cited that the Administration did issue the security clearance. It is the leftwing media that is distorting the story:
. . .Spicer stopped short of suggesting that the Obama administration deserved blame for re-upping Flynn’s clearance in 2016 despite his paid speaking gig in Russia. But he did explain that the Trump administration had not run its own check on Flynn, assuming that the Obama-era security clearance would have been sufficient.

“We trust that when you were cleared the first time, if you were cleared on December 15th or January 20th, that you were still -- that your background check still cleared. Every individual [who] came into this White House either applied for a security clearance or had one.” Spicer said. “Why would you rerun a background check on someone who was the head of the Department of Defense intelligence agency that had and did maintain a high-level security clearance?”
Spicer: Obama administration responsible for Flynn's security clearance - POLITICO

The Trump Administration no doubt became aware of the problem in February, 2017, soon followed by a request that Flynn resig, when the Defense Dept. suspended Flynn's security clearance.
Michael Flynn's security clearance has reportedly been suspended - Business Insider​
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Lets you and I lay our cards on the table. Lets put aside the nice polite talk.

This is pure Trump BS that we have seen over and o ver and over again. Take credit pronouncing anything good that happens under your watch as GREAT and something you are responsible for. Anything that turns out to reek like crap is somebody elses fault and never yours since you are above such mundane physical functions anyways.

This is just the latest example.

Spicer claiming that the Obama administration and FULL KNOWLEDGE of Flynns activities is the worst kind of BS. He has no way of knowing that nor did he provide any evidence for that claim.​
 
haymarket said:
Is there somebody who can explain the logic behind the charge that Mike Flynn's problems are the fault of Obama?

‘Not Trump’s fault’: House oversight chair Chaffetz blames Obama administration for failing to vet Flynn



This started yesterday and now today we get Spicey trotting it out - apparently to see if anybody salutes and they can sell it.



Now Spicey never stated what he meant by "full knowledge of his activities in 2015" nor did he provide any evidence of that allegation - but it looks like he is trying to inoculate Trump with this move. Not did Spicey say what the clearance was for, if it was applied for or any of the details that supposedly went with it.

Note how Spicy did NOT answer that really great question which was about The TRUMP vetting of Flynn -something Obama had absolutely nothing to do with in any way shape or form. In fact, Trump supposedly vetted Flynn for VP.

Can anybody say "extreme vetting"?


I really don't see how they are going to connect the dots here especially as they are on different pages of different books. But lets hear it.

Tell us how all the governmental and legal problems of Mike Flynn that he got into while part of the Trump campaign... the Trump transition... and the Trump administration .... are the fault of Barack Obama and his administration. This should be good.
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He's an uppity nixxer. Don't you get it? Donald released the KKK Genes. Now we all puff out our chests when we drop a million $ bomb on unarmed people.
Good old ugly american way
 
haymarket said:
Lets you and I lay our cards on the table. Lets put aside the nice polite talk.

This is pure Trump BS that we have seen over and o ver and over again. Take credit pronouncing anything good that happens under your watch as GREAT and something you are responsible for. Anything that turns out to reek like crap is somebody elses fault and never yours since you are above such mundane physical functions anyways.

This is just the latest example.

Spicer claiming that the Obama administration and FULL KNOWLEDGE of Flynns activities is the worst kind of BS. He has no way of knowing that nor did he provide any evidence for that claim.
Click to expand...

Well Cummings says he had the information. If he had it, then the Obama Administration most likely had it. Why didn't Cummings petition the Obama Administration to re-investigate Flynn's security clearance?

But if the Obama Administration didn't know, then it is absurd to think the Trump campaign had more resources to find out than the Administration did.

So did Flynn receive a security clearance in the spring of 2016 long before his name came up as National Security Advisor? Did he fail to note his lobbying efforts when he reapplied? So far nobody has said Flynn did not get that security clearance. But they are sure jumping on Spicer and by association Trump for saying the Administration knew. Had he planned out what he would say, he probably could have saved himself some grief by saying the Administration should have known.

If Flynn got that security clearance and the Administration didn't know, then Flynn probably falsified the application and/or the Administration either didn't do its job or erred in trusting Flynn as Trump did. Or the whole thing has been mischaracterized as to what actually happened which wouldn't surprise me considering all the fake news the left has tried to generate whether implied or flat out stated.

But right or wrong, if you attack Trump and he believes the attack is unfair or facts are misrepresented he will bite back. We knew that about him when he was elected. And what he says is great or takes credit for has absolutely nothing to do with this topic.
 
AlbqOwl said:
Well Cummings says he had the information. If he had it, then the Obama Administration most likely had it. Why didn't Cummings petition the Obama Administration to re-investigate Flynn's security clearance?

But if the Obama Administration didn't know, then it is absurd to think the Trump campaign had more resources to find out than the Administration did.

So did Flynn receive a security clearance in the spring of 2016 long before his name came up as National Security Advisor? Did he fail to note his lobbying efforts when he reapplied? So far nobody has said Flynn did not get that security clearance. But they are sure jumping on Spicer and by association Trump for saying the Administration knew. Had he planned out what he would say, he probably could have saved himself some grief by saying the Administration should have known.

If Flynn got that security clearance and the Administration didn't know, then Flynn probably falsified the application and/or the Administration either didn't do its job or erred in trusting Flynn as Trump did. Or the whole thing has been mischaracterized as to what actually happened which wouldn't surprise me considering all the fake news the left has tried to generate whether implied or flat out stated.

But right or wrong, if you attack Trump and he believes the attack is unfair or facts are misrepresented he will bite back. We knew that about him when he was elected. And what he says is great or takes credit for has absolutely nothing to do with this topic.
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What I am "jumping on" - what I am taking umbrage at - what I am railing against - is a pattern of a abysmal combination of two of the absolute qualities any leader can have and they being bullying and cowardice. That is Trump. Part of the cowardice is blaming others - even if it is only partially blaming them.

And that is what this is................. yeah again.

Trump is responsible for ALL the people he hires. Nobody else. Trump is responsible for the actions of Trump. Period.

And speaking of Trumps responsibility for Flynn - why - ofter the Justice Dept authorities told him of the Flynn security risk and the possibility of Russian blackmail did he keep Flynn on the job for weeks?
 
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Mycroft said:
Really? The FBI ID's him a traitor? I must have missed that.

You got a link?
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You can call it what you want but when a NSA chief lies to the FBI about conversations with the enemy I consider that traitorous.
 
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