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Thomas Sowell on the Problems for Blacks Created by the White Liberal Agenda.

....Absentglare, here's an interesting essay I just read which coincides with what I've been trying to say.( probably not successfully)

https://fee.org/articles/capitalism-is-the-moral-high-road/
Capitalism Is the Moral High Road
"...The watchwords of capitalist free market morality, therefore, are liberty, honesty, and humility: The freedom of each individual to live and choose for himself; the ethics of fair dealings; and the modesty to admit that none of us is wise enough to plan society..."

ME: ( that includes Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, BArack Obama, etc etc etc)
 
If you read his critics, there's a consistent theme among them:

He has no objective methodology for which historical anecdotes are chosen to be emphasized. The result is that he cherry picks anecdotes [perhaps to support an agenda] without considering alternative explanations.

He is just another opportunist who writes books to make money off of gullible people. Worse yet, he might actually be a victim of his own misinformation campaign. What he should do is not write so many books, but instead, write one book that is actually good.

The key would be go for the truth of what he really thinks/feels and quit sounding like he's playing to an audience.
 
One of my best friends was born in Nigeria, he's an electrical engineer like me. I would say that my interactions with him support your assessment above. The culture of black Americans have internalized this hopelessness, despair, and second-class treatment; whereas the direct African immigrants can retain their ambition and self-esteem.

I think people have little concept of how deeply catastrophic even subtle racism can be across an aggregate in the tens of millions.
I've been thinking about this a lot since you posted it. It is very thought provoking and exposes an angle that I hadn't considered before, at least not to this depth.

I have observed many black immigrants from Africa who have done well in America. As a general rule, they tend to have more hope and enthusiasm for their opportunities than black Americans... and to be honest, more than most white Americans, too, but I digress. Maybe it's a matter is not appreciating what is given to you. :shrug: But anyway...

You talk about a culture being ingrained in a community over generations, and I do not dispute that one bit. In fact, I agree with it.

So, this dichotomy begs the question: If African immigrants can do well and be happy, is it possible that it's not white Americans keeping blacks down? (There will always be some instances, but I'm talking in an overall sense.) I mean, the past is what it is, and a mindset can indeed be a hard thing to change in oneself, let alone in a community overall, but this would seem to be evidence that active or passive racism... while not wholly gone or irrelevant... is being overplayed.

I have a good friend who emigrated from Sierra Leone roughly 20 years ago, and became a citizen roughly 4 years ago. He is very happy guy, but when this subject comes up he gets serious. He is not very receptive to the complaints that many blacks have regarding racism. He does see some, sure, but he thinks it is overplayed, as well.

So, who's right? Him? Them? Both, according to their own experience? Or, maybe, according to their own perspective? Maybe it's a relative thing. Maybe he sees opportunity being greater than he ever imagined, even with road bumps. We hear a lot about 'white privilege' where whites cannot see the advantages they were born into over blacks, yet maybe American-born blacks have 'American privilege' where they don't see the advantages or opportunities they were born into relative to what other blacks experience.
 
Who doesn't get insulted in a comment section? Racist comments are the method trolls use when they can't articulate a point effectively. You think if some troll calls a woman a fat bitch in the comment section that he lays awake at night thinking of how great the world would be without obese people? No, he's saying what he believes is going to be most hurtful because he can't make a decent point.

Interesting how there are more racist trolls insulting blacks compared to whites...
 
Interesting how there are more racist trolls insulting blacks compared to whites...

Would you be offended if a black person called you a cracker? Me neither. Black people don't have an n-word for whites.

Btw, are you suggesting that whites are typically racist and blacks aren't?
 
I've been thinking about this a lot since you posted it. It is very thought provoking and exposes an angle that I hadn't considered before, at least not to this depth.

Thank you. I am truly grateful for your posts here.

I have observed many black immigrants from Africa who have done well in America. As a general rule, they tend to have more hope and enthusiasm for their opportunities than black Americans... and to be honest, more than most white Americans, too, but I digress. Maybe it's a matter is not appreciating what is given to you. :shrug: But anyway...

I see human beings as similar recipes; we're all the same basic ingredients, but the conditions we're put into differ, often dramatically. I think the disparity between African immigrants and African Americans is a strong argument for the power of nurture in the nature versus nurture argument.

We tend to think of culture as something that can only affect us if we permit it, but i think that's more of an illusion. Our brains are developed within an environment that shapes us in ways that we aren't necessarily aware of. Once we're developed, then maybe we have our own self-identity, our own self-worth. Said another way, once who we are has taken form, then we can be who we are independent from environmental/cultural influence.

You talk about a culture being ingrained in a community over generations, and I do not dispute that one bit. In fact, I agree with it.

So, this dichotomy begs the question: If African immigrants can do well and be happy, is it possible that it's not white Americans keeping blacks down? (There will always be some instances, but I'm talking in an overall sense.) I mean, the past is what it is, and a mindset can indeed be a hard thing to change in oneself, let alone in a community overall, but this would seem to be evidence that active or passive racism... while not wholly gone or irrelevant... is being overplayed.

I don't think it makes sense to blame white Americans, as a group. The white Americans who were responsible for slavery are long gone. I was born into this country at a time when black Americans were already disadvantaged, so it makes little sense for me, as a white male, to bear responsibility for that.

But we still participate in this culture. American cultures evolved from ones in which slavery was widespread. To the extent that our behavior could contribute to maintenance of culturally-learned racial inferiority, we are responsible. And maybe that's why i can get sensitive when people seem to casually conclude that racism doesn't exist anymore; maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but we have little to lose by exercising caution and we have a lot to lose if we assume there is no problem when there actually still is (at least some part of) one.

I'm not sure if i'm understanding how you are suggesting that racism could be overplayed. For me, anything that potentially can internalize racial inferiority could be considered racist. Inferiority can be internalized in a way that is detrimental to self-worth.

And actually, i think this is similar to what some of our culture is doing to poor people: we enact policies that teach them that they aren't worth resources (by, say, cutting healthcare subsidies). A lot of what i see as anti-poverty class warfare has correspondence to propagating impressions of racism. To a poor black community, the two may be difficult to distinguish.

1 of 2 (sorry, brevity is not my strong suit)
 
I have a good friend who emigrated from Sierra Leone roughly 20 years ago, and became a citizen roughly 4 years ago. He is very happy guy, but when this subject comes up he gets serious. He is not very receptive to the complaints that many blacks have regarding racism. He does see some, sure, but he thinks it is overplayed, as well.

So, who's right? Him? Them? Both, according to their own experience? Or, maybe, according to their own perspective? Maybe it's a relative thing. Maybe he sees opportunity being greater than he ever imagined, even with road bumps. We hear a lot about 'white privilege' where whites cannot see the advantages they were born into over blacks, yet maybe American-born blacks have 'American privilege' where they don't see the advantages or opportunities they were born into relative to what other blacks experience.

Well i think, unfortunately, most people are right. When a black American explains their experiences and their impressions, assuming they are being honest and accurate, they are absolutely correct about what they experienced and how it made them feel. That's the problem of subjectivity, that we have the paradox of different subjects' narratives contradicting one another.

It's very difficult for the human brain to try to model tens (or hundreds) of millions of different lifetimes, but that seems to be the dataset. Black Americans didn't get hypersensitive about racism in a vacuum; on the aggregate, they seem to get the shortest stick from society. The way i see it, black Americans have had sub-standard initial conditions, the average black American is born into a poorer household, and we never really bothered to pull them all the way up to our socioeconomic level.
 
Would you be offended if a black person called you a cracker? Me neither. Black people don't have an n-word for whites.

Btw, are you suggesting that whites are typically racist and blacks aren't?

Nope, however sheer numbers would indicate that there are way more white racists compared to blacks. Why? Because whites are the majority in America, over 60% of the population, compared to blacks, who are what 12 or 13%?
 
Well i think, unfortunately, most people are right. When a black American explains their experiences and their impressions, assuming they are being honest and accurate, they are absolutely correct about what they experienced and how it made them feel. That's the problem of subjectivity, that we have the paradox of different subjects' narratives contradicting one another.

It's very difficult for the human brain to try to model tens (or hundreds) of millions of different lifetimes, but that seems to be the dataset. Black Americans didn't get hypersensitive about racism in a vacuum; on the aggregate, they seem to get the shortest stick from society. The way i see it, black Americans have had sub-standard initial conditions, the average black American is born into a poorer household, and we never really bothered to pull them all the way up to our socioeconomic level.

Thank you for your insightful posts. I think one problem a lot of whites have is that they will say they are not racist today, so why should they have to carry the burden of lifting up the African-American community?

I think the answer is that although not many of us today maybe directly responsible for the situation in the African American community, there has been a horrible injustice which has been to them as a group. It is like someone who has been punched in the gut and is left writhing on the ground in the middle of the street. The person who punched him may not be around anymore, or at least not as much. But that doesn't matter. It would be a waste of time to try to assign blame at this point. It's OK to just take the time to go over, help dust them off, and give them a hand to help get them back on their feet.
 
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