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Where did Syria and Assad get the nerve gas?

ISIS stronghold? They no longer possess a zone of control in Libya(though they haven't totally vanished either).

If ISIS had launched the attack they would not have stayed quiet about it. It goes utterly against their modus operandi.

That's a mighty big "if" you've bulit yourself there. Now, the more likely scenario, if it was a rebel attack(much less likely than the Syrian government doing it) is that these were arms that Assad didn't bother to properly secure and were therefore captured by the rebels.

Yes it is an isis stronghold, they lost the only major city they controlled in december, but the various rebel factions that control syria has led to no central govt, which has allowed them to thrive.

So you are arguing that weapons that dissapeared in libya are impossible to end in extremist hands, yet syria in which extremists over ran the country funded and backed by the us is assads fault. We had western govt's back terrorists in order to overthrow assad, through means of proxy war, the combined forces through proxy were vastly more powerful than his military, the only turning point was russia.
 
Yes it is an isis stronghold, they lost the only major city they controlled in december, but the various rebel factions that control syria has led to no central govt, which has allowed them to thrive.

So you are arguing that weapons that dissapeared in libya are impossible to end in extremist hands, yet syria in which extremists over ran the country funded and backed by the us is assads fault. We had western govt's back terrorists in order to overthrow assad, through means of proxy war, the combined forces through proxy were vastly more powerful than his military, the only turning point was russia.

No, not really. They've been able to survive, but I wouldn't call losing one's main bases and being pushed deep into the boonies "thriving".

I'm not saying "impossible"; I'm saying "highly unlikely".

And I'd really like to see this proof people keep claiming that the US armed or trained ISIS.

Yay! Putin swoops in to save another dictator from the consequences of his actions! :roll:
 
No, not really. They've been able to survive, but I wouldn't call losing one's main bases and being pushed deep into the boonies "thriving".

I'm not saying "impossible"; I'm saying "highly unlikely".

And I'd really like to see this proof people keep claiming that the US armed or trained ISIS.

Yay! Putin swoops in to save another dictator from the consequences of his actions! :roll:

Isis moved heavily into loibya following russias assistance of assad, they have much of their force there, just not a solid single base.

They are they because of no central govt, the reason they do not run the country is because of all the militias, it is like somalia, no govt there, except a small portion, rest is competing militias.

No one can prove the us trained and armed isis, however demanding isis when terrorist is mentioned is shifting the goal posts. A lot of the so called moderate rebels we backed in syria and libya were isis, al quaeda and al nursa. So much so last time I looked at a death count by country in syria, the us had one death for al nursa, yeah one, seemed they blatently went out of their way to avoid attacking that terrorist organization.
 
Well, I've heard theories that Saddam had sent most of his WMDs(and before somebody who thinks only nukes are WMDs pipes up, yes, chemical weapons are WMDs) over the border into Syria in the months before Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Iraq sent many suspicious convoys across that Syrian border that were never sought out by the UN investigators.
 
Iraq sent many suspicious convoys across that Syrian border that were never sought out by the UN investigators.

There was never any credible basis for believing that Iraq moved its wmd to Syria and the ISG concluded they had been destroyed years before. The U.S. intercepted a few trucks and found they only carried bullion and cash.
 
There was never any credible basis for believing that Iraq moved its wmd to Syria and the ISG concluded they had been destroyed years before. The U.S. intercepted a few trucks and found they only carried bullion and cash.

https://spectator.org/60689_new-york-times-rediscovers-weapons-mass-destruction-iraq/

"Indeed, senior officials in the U.S. and other governments, with no less access to critical information than the ISG, reached a very different conclusion about Iraq’s proscribed weapons: they were moved to Syria, on the eve of the war. Director of National Intelligence, Gen. James Clapper headed the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency during Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF). In October 2003, Clapper met a group of journalists, telling them that “satellite imagery showing a heavy flow of traffic from Iraq into Syria, just before the American invasion in March, led him to believe that illicit weapons material ‘unquestionably’ had been moved out of Iraq,” the New York Times reported then.

Moshe Ya’alon, Israel’s Defense Minister, was Chief of Staff of the Israel Defense Force during OIF. Gen. Ya’alon subsequently said much the same as Gen. Clapper: on the war’s eve, Saddam “transferred the chemical agents from Iraq to Syria. No one went to Syria to find it.” That view was echoed by Iraqi general Georges Sada, former Deputy Chief of Saddam’s Air Force.

But the White House responded with thunderous silence, as senior figures expressed these views. The late Joseph Shattan, an author, journalist, and speechwriter, including for the Bush White House, was one of those unique individuals who genuinely spoke truth to power—and did so with rare good humor. Some four years ago, Shattan published “The Man Who Elected Barack Obama,” in this magazine, holding Karl Rove responsible for the Bush administration’s crucial failure to respond to the Democratic assault on OIF. On Thursday, the Daily Beast echoed his complaint: Rove judged the issue a political loser and thought it best forgotten—without understanding that such a fundamental matter could never be forgotten, as Shattan wrote.

Last Sunday, the Jerusalem Post reported that the Islamic State appears to have used mustard gas in July against Kurdish fighters in Syria. (Defense One subsequently published a similar report.) In June, the Islamic State overran Muthanna, 35 miles northwest of Baghdad, where Saddam’s regime manufactured chemical agents and filled chemical munitions. The Obama administration dismissed the significance of Muthanna’s capture. However, the area, repeatedly bombed, is littered with partially destroyed, rusty, leaking munitions. Potentially, many dangerous chemical shells are now in the hands of the Islamic State."

And at least twice more since then.
 
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Iraq sent many suspicious convoys across that Syrian border that were never sought out by the UN investigators.

True. That was the basis of the theory I brought up.
 
Assad's supporter Russia confirmed that THEY had collected all of the Syrian WMD two years ago. Perhaps they gave him some back on account. The fact that the gass survivors were bombed at the hospital points to Assad, who is the top "extremist" in Syria.

Agreed. Add to this that in the region Assad has a history of using chemical weapons in this conflict, seems to be foregone conclusion.

From my understanding, the actual act of creating Sarin isn't all that difficult for knowledgeable chemists, as is the case for many of the chemical weapons.
 
From what I've read, this most recent attack used chlorine gas, which isn't hard to obtain. This may be outdated info, however.
 
DO you have any proof of this? I think that is one of those "stories" told by the Bush Administration. Please provide a link if you are able.
 
https://spectator.org/60689_new-york-times-rediscovers-weapons-mass-destruction-iraq/

"Indeed, senior officials in the U.S. and other governments, with no less access to critical information than the ISG, reached a very different conclusion about Iraq’s proscribed weapons: they were moved to Syria, on the eve of the war. Director of National Intelligence, Gen. James Clapper headed the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency during Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF). In October 2003, Clapper met a group of journalists, telling them that “satellite imagery showing a heavy flow of traffic from Iraq into Syria, just before the American invasion in March, led him to believe that illicit weapons material ‘unquestionably’ had been moved out of Iraq,” the New York Times reported then.

Moshe Ya’alon, Israel’s Defense Minister, was Chief of Staff of the Israel Defense Force during OIF. Gen. Ya’alon subsequently said much the same as Gen. Clapper: on the war’s eve, Saddam “transferred the chemical agents from Iraq to Syria. No one went to Syria to find it.” That view was echoed by Iraqi general Georges Sada, former Deputy Chief of Saddam’s Air Force.

But the White House responded with thunderous silence, as senior figures expressed these views. The late Joseph Shattan, an author, journalist, and speechwriter, including for the Bush White House, was one of those unique individuals who genuinely spoke truth to power—and did so with rare good humor. Some four years ago, Shattan published “The Man Who Elected Barack Obama,” in this magazine, holding Karl Rove responsible for the Bush administration’s crucial failure to respond to the Democratic assault on OIF. On Thursday, the Daily Beast echoed his complaint: Rove judged the issue a political loser and thought it best forgotten—without understanding that such a fundamental matter could never be forgotten, as Shattan wrote.

Last Sunday, the Jerusalem Post reported that the Islamic State appears to have used mustard gas in July against Kurdish fighters in Syria. (Defense One subsequently published a similar report.) In June, the Islamic State overran Muthanna, 35 miles northwest of Baghdad, where Saddam’s regime manufactured chemical agents and filled chemical munitions. The Obama administration dismissed the significance of Muthanna’s capture. However, the area, repeatedly bombed, is littered with partially destroyed, rusty, leaking munitions. Potentially, many dangerous chemical shells are now in the hands of the Islamic State."

And at least twice more since then.

As I said, no credible basis. The ISG found ample evidence to conclude that Saddam had destroyed his chemical weapons stockpile and decommissioned his wmd programs. What the regime was transporting to Syria was bullion and cash from the central bank - confirmed in the interception of three trucks.
 
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As I said, no credible basis. The ISG found ample evidence to conclude that Saddam had destroyed his chemical weapons stockpile and decommissioned his wmd programs. What the regime was transporting to Syria was bullion and cash from the central bank - confirmed in the interception of three trucks.

Negative sir.. They were destroying tons of chemical weapons long after Saddam was gone. There is certainly credible evidence that it was there and remained so for a long time.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...casualties-of-iraq-chemical-weapons.html?_r=0

"From 2004 to 2011, American and American-trained Iraqi troops repeatedly encountered, and on at least six occasions were wounded by, chemical weapons remaining from years earlier in Saddam Hussein’s rule.

In all, American troops secretly reported finding roughly 5,000 chemical warheads, shells or aviation bombs, according to interviews with dozens of participants, Iraqi and American officials, and heavily redacted intelligence documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act.

The United States had gone to war declaring it must destroy an active weapons of mass destruction program. Instead, American troops gradually found and ultimately suffered from the remnants of long-abandoned programs, built in close collaboration with the West.

The New York Times found 17 American service members and seven Iraqi police officers who were exposed to nerve or mustard agents after 2003. American officials said that the actual tally of exposed troops was slightly higher, but that the government’s official count was classified"

Oh and the number two man in Saddams airforce wrote a book about it and testified how Saddam shipped a ton off to Syria using a natural disaster as cover.

General Georges Sada-The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - Video Clip | Comedy Central

I guess when one has tons of stuff it can end up all over the place.
 
Colin Powell's antics at the UN were first taken seriously, but eventually were shown to be complete deception and fear mongering. Even POTUS Bush eventually made jokes about "finding those damn WMDs".

So typical that some still buy into the deception all these years later.
 
The UD said that they destroyed all of Syria and Assad's nerve gas. If that is so, where did they get the nerve gas they just used. Now maybe the UN did not get all of the nerve gas, but let us say they did. There are only two places Syria could have gotten the gas, either Russia or Iran. Where do you think they got the gas?

Sarin doesn't have an infinity long shelf life.

Degradation and shelf life
The most important chemical reactions of phosphoryl halides is the hydrolysis of the bond between phosphorus and the fluoride. This P-F bond is easily broken by nucleophilic agents, such as water and hydroxide. At high pH, sarin decomposes rapidly to nontoxic phosphonic acid derivatives.[23][24] The initial breakdown of sarin is into isopropyl methylphosphonic acid (IMPA), a chemical that is not commonly found in nature except as a breakdown product of sarin (this is useful for detecting the recent deployment of sarin as a weapon). IMPA then degrades into methylphosphonic acid (MPA), which can also be produced by other organophosphates.[25]

Sarin without the residual acid removed degrades after a period of several weeks to several months. The shelf life can be shortened by impurities in precursor materials. According to the CIA, some Iraqi sarin had a shelf life of only a few weeks, owing mostly to impure precursors.[26]

Along with nerve agents such as tabun and VX, sarin can have a maximum shelf-life of five years.[27] Sarin's otherwise-short shelf life can be extended by increasing the purity of the precursor and intermediates and incorporating stabilizers such as tributylamine. In some formulations, tributylamine is replaced by diisopropylcarbodiimide (DIC), allowing sarin to be stored in aluminium casings. In binary chemical weapons, the two precursors are stored separately in the same shell and mixed to form the agent immediately before or when the shell is in flight. This approach has the dual benefit of solving the stability issue and increasing the safety of sarin munitions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin#Degradation_and_shelf_life

The most recently used Sarin was hidden from the inspectors, or was created after the inspectors left. Once someone knows the recipe how to create it, producing it is probably not as great a challenge as one might think.
 
The UD said that they destroyed all of Syria and Assad's nerve gas. If that is so, where did they get the nerve gas they just used. Now maybe the UN did not get all of the nerve gas, but let us say they did. There are only two places Syria could have gotten the gas, either Russia or Iran. Where do you think they got the gas?

Who knows? But to think the existing stocks were ever completely destroyed is pretty hard to believe.
 
If it was so difficult to make, how did a doomsday cult of amateurs were able to make in in Japan??

That doomsday cult of amateurs were actually a group of chemical engineers working in a three story lab dedicated to the production of sarin. Hardly amateurs. Their facility could produce approximately 2 gallons of sarin a day. That's not enough to conduct large scale chemical attacks, but it was sufficient for their cause.
 
We do not yet know Assad is responsible. This link provides some enlightening information on the subject.

https://www.lrb.co.uk/v35/n24/seymour-m-hersh/whose-sarin

What proof is there that the chemicals used in the attack came from Assad's planes and not placed by ISIS ground forces to draw the U.S. in the fight on the SIDE of ISIS, and put in a poxy war with Russia?

Show me Proof that the Chemical Weapons came from the planes!

Why are jumping into a fight on the side of ISIS BEFORE we have that proof!?
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Proof of WHAT?


That it was Sarin Gas?



I'm not disputing that it was Sarin Gas...


I'm saying, how do we know that Assad's planes carried that Sarin Gas?


How do we know that ISIS did not march into the area, with Some of Saddam's captured Sarin Gas Mortar round in back packs, hide them in the areas being bombed, with short time delay or remote detonators... in order to set them off just after the next Assad Air Raid, to CLAIM that Assad was using Chem Weapons?


I do not doubt that Assad's planes were dropping lots of HE bombs in the area...


Where is the proof that the chemical attack was done by Assad's Aircraft?!


Trump is now doing exactly what Valerie Jarrent, Iran, and Obama Wanted?!


Why is Trump now doing Obama's/Iran's Dirty Work?

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Proof of WHAT?


That it was Sarin Gas?



I'm not disputing that it was Sarin Gas...


I'm saying, how do we know that Assad's planes carried that Sarin Gas?


How do we know that ISIS did not march into the area, with Some of Saddam's captured Sarin Gas Mortar round in back packs, hide them in the areas being bombed, with short time delay or remote detonators... in order to set them off just after the next Assad Air Raid, to CLAIM that Assad was using Chem Weapons?


I do not doubt that Assad's planes were dropping lots of HE bombs in the area...


Where is the proof that the chemical attack was done by Assad's Aircraft?!


Trump is now doing exactly what Valerie Jarrent, Iran, and Obama Wanted?!


Why is Trump now doing Obama's/Iran's Dirty Work?

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How is that irans dirty work, iran is pro syria and anti isis/al quaeda, why would they want to bolster isis and cripple syria?
 
How is that irans dirty work, iran is pro syria and anti isis/al quaeda, why would they want to bolster isis and cripple syria?

come on!

We've know for three years that many of the top people in the leadership of ISIS, those ordering the outrageous, Show-Boat style mass exectutions are Iranian covert Ops agents looking to create a pretext for Iran coming to the rescue, invading Iraq and siezing the territory to end the carrnage!

This is all part of the Manipulations of the West to allow Iran to become the Regional Islamic Caliphate!

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come on!

We've know for three years that many of the top people in the leadership of ISIS, those ordering the outrageous, Show-Boat style mass exectutions are Iranian covert Ops agents looking to create a pretext for Iran coming to the rescue, invading Iraq and siezing the territory to end the carrnage!

This is all part of the Manipulations of the West to allow Iran to become the Regional Islamic Caliphate!

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Do you hav even a single shred of evidence to back it? So far iran has opposed isis and all terrorists excluding those in palestine and lebanon, due to the fact they are sunni and iran is shia, and the terrorists main goal is to install a pure shia land with their own caliphate.

So far no evidence points to what you claim, infact iran was the country who gave us our own most wanted al quaeda cards after 9/11, yeah iran was the biggest help on our wqar on terror, simply because the terrorists goals list includes the destruction of iran and the erradication of shia islam.
 
With these actions which are aligned with Valerie Jarret's, Obama's and Iran's interests, Trump is on very dangerous ground.

If he continues down that path, it could end very, very badly for Trump, and all American Military.


But, it is not yet too late to pull back and evaluate...

Trump needs, from this point forward, to be double, triple, hell, Sintilla suspiscious of any request for any action that does not...

Wait for it....

Really hear it!....

Does NOT end in massive numbers of ISIS DEAD and Captured, and a huge diminishment of Iranian Islamic Power!


If you want to see the puppet strings, before they're pulled taunt!... Look for Iranian Advantage!

Not always ISIS Advantage!

They even have a special word for it: Taqiyya

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/taqiyya.aspx

ISIS is a tool! A means to an end... Watch the tool user!

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Do you hav even a single shred of evidence to back it? So far iran has opposed isis and all terrorists excluding those in palestine and lebanon, due to the fact they are sunni and iran is shia, and the terrorists main goal is to install a pure shia land with their own caliphate.

So far no evidence points to what you claim, infact iran was the country who gave us our own most wanted al quaeda cards after 9/11, yeah iran was the biggest help on our wqar on terror, simply because the terrorists goals list includes the destruction of iran and the erradication of shia islam.

On this thread, the question we should be asking, which Kurmugeon was asking, is "what evidence is there that Syrian forces deployed the gas in question?"

But Americans are superbly conditioned to ask no questions at all, and to accept what the authorities tell them as the gospel truth, so when somebody asks an intelligent question he is made fun of. Yes, we have the government we deserve.
 
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