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This is not a Debatable issue. (1 Viewer)

Cigar

Cigar

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This is not fake news. This is not a witch hunt. This actually happened.


We are still not conclusively able to connect the dots on the question of whether there was any coordination or collusion between members of Donald Trump’s campaign and the Russians who interfered in our election to benefit him, but those dots do continue to multiply at an alarming rate.

First, and we have to keep saying this because this fact keeps getting obscured in the subterfuge of deflection, misdirection and ideological finger-pointing about what has yet to be proven: It is absolutely clear that the Russians did interfere in our election. This is not a debatable issue. This is not fake news. This is not a witch hunt. This happened.

The investigations, rightly, are seeking to figure out exactly how and to what degree, and those questions obviously depend on knowing more about campaign contacts with Russian meddlers.


The journalistic caution in me keeps having to write that these could all be coincidences, but the journalistic instinct has learned long ago that coincidence is the albino alligator of political reality: It exists, but is exceedingly rare.



https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/03/...of-coincidence.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
 
Did the government do the forensics on the DNC servers?
 
First you get the evidence, then you make the charge, till that happens all claims are political moves and need to be understood as such.
 
It will be interesting. At this point it looks like Obama administration people or their hangers on illegally accessed classified data on communications and leaked this data to the press. And made up stories about collusion between Trump and the Russians. Of course, there is nothing illegal about talking to foreign governments so that seems like quite a leap. I would hope that any prospective administration would strengthen their relationships with foreign governments.

But who illegally accessed this information and who illegally sent it to their cohorts in the media. Real interesting. NYTimes has been hoist by their on petard with their reporting.
 
"While there is no direct or circumstantial evidence that Joe is a child molester we have seen him with children and, therefore, must shove an investoscope as far up his ass as we can for our own amusement".
 
I thought this was going to be the story of Susan Rice finally getting caught.
But no, another NYT Charles Blow opinion piece trying to keep a dying narrative alive.
Hardly worth a read.
Especially after today's news.
 
Eric7216 said:
It will be interesting. At this point it looks like Obama administration people or their hangers on illegally accessed classified data on communications and leaked this data to the press. And made up stories about collusion between Trump and the Russians. Of course, there is nothing illegal about talking to foreign governments so that seems like quite a leap. I would hope that any prospective administration would strengthen their relationships with foreign governments.

But who illegally accessed this information and who illegally sent it to their cohorts in the media. Real interesting. NYTimes has been hoist by their on petard with their reporting.
Click to expand...

We know at least who was collecting it ... Susan Rice ... can't say it's much of a surprise though.
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/arti...ser-sought-names-of-trump-associates-in-intel
 
:mrgreen: When your Boy is walking out of The White House in his Orange Suit and Handcuffs, it will be interesting to hear the excuses.
 
Eric7216 said:
It will be interesting. At this point it looks like Obama administration people or their hangers on illegally accessed classified data on communications and leaked this data to the press. And made up stories about collusion between Trump and the Russians. Of course, there is nothing illegal about talking to foreign governments so that seems like quite a leap. I would hope that any prospective administration would strengthen their relationships with foreign governments.

But who illegally accessed this information and who illegally sent it to their cohorts in the media. Real interesting. NYTimes has been hoist by their on petard with their reporting.
Click to expand...

You know I was just reading how Eisenhower got McCarthy by leading him into self destructive blundering (April Atlantic) and while the piece is intended to be a narrative of how the Elite are trying to get Trump I think it is actually a historical event which highlights what Trump is doing to the elite. Trump is nothing if not methodical and willing to wait long periods of time for the win, proving how crazed the establishment is by how they have acted on the Russia Collusion fantasy might just be the ticket to an outright win for the Rebellion. I note that recent events continue to prove that I have long been overly optimistic about the competence of the Elite.
 
Cigar said:
This is not fake news. This is not a witch hunt. This actually happened.


We are still not conclusively able to connect the dots on the question of whether there was any coordination or collusion between members of Donald Trump’s campaign and the Russians who interfered in our election to benefit him, but those dots do continue to multiply at an alarming rate.

First, and we have to keep saying this because this fact keeps getting obscured in the subterfuge of deflection, misdirection and ideological finger-pointing about what has yet to be proven: It is absolutely clear that the Russians did interfere in our election. This is not a debatable issue. This is not fake news. This is not a witch hunt. This happened.

The investigations, rightly, are seeking to figure out exactly how and to what degree, and those questions obviously depend on knowing more about campaign contacts with Russian meddlers.


The journalistic caution in me keeps having to write that these could all be coincidences, but the journalistic instinct has learned long ago that coincidence is the albino alligator of political reality: It exists, but is exceedingly rare.



https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/03/...of-coincidence.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
Click to expand...

Actually it is a debatable issue. So far no evidence of Trump Russian collusion has been presented.
 
jamesrage said:
Actually it is a debatable issue. So far no evidence of Trump Russian collusion has been presented.
Click to expand...

There's plenty of evidence, that's why the investigation isn't over and witnesses are asking for immunity and are be called to testify. See how this works sport, when you run out of evidence, that's when they conclude and close the investigation, not ramp it up. :lamo
 
Fishking said:
Did the government do the forensics on the DNC servers?
Click to expand...

They did and no russian fingerprints or traces of DNA was found

So the obama holdovers dropped a little peyote and had visions of Putin hacking the DNC
 
Cigar said:
There's plenty of evidence, that's why the investigation isn't over and witnesses are asking for immunity and are be called to testify. See how this works sport, when you run out of evidence, that's when they conclude and close the investigation, not ramp it up. :lamo
Click to expand...

There is no evidence only wishful thinking
 
Mac77 said:
There is no evidence only wishful thinking
Click to expand...

Maybe The Feds hired Trump's Hawaiian Investigators, since they didn't have anything to do in Hawaii :mrgreen:
 
Cigar said:
There's plenty of evidence, that's why the investigation isn't over and witnesses are asking for immunity and are be called to testify. See how this works sport, when you run out of evidence, that's when they conclude and close the investigation, not ramp it up. :lamo
Click to expand...
None has been presented yet so far.
 
I'm on the fence over the whole Russia-Trump theory. I wouldn't be surprised and I am certainly open to the possibility. However, if this becomes another "poor Hillary" partisan-strokefest to enable socially-liberal neocons to pat themselves on the back for handing Trump the White House...

...foreign interference in an election or primary, or domestic enabling thereof, should not be a partisan talking-point to be used as a political football to divide people up and conquer them (like what nearly every crony-capitalist politician in this country has done since the beginning).
 
Fishking said:
Did the government do the forensics on the DNC servers?
Click to expand...

The government didn't have to...

"...cybersecurity experts and firms, including CrowdStrike, Fidelis Cybersecurity, Mandiant, SecureWorks, ThreatConnect, and the editor for Ars Technica, have rejected the claims of "Guccifer 2.0" and have determined, on the basis of substantial evidence, that the cyberattacks were committed by two Russian state-sponsored groups (Cozy Bear and Fancy Bear).[11][12][13][14][15][16]...."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_National_Committee_cyber_attacks​
 
Hawkeye10 said:
You know I was just reading how Eisenhower got McCarthy by leading him into self destructive blundering (April Atlantic) and while the piece is intended to be a narrative of how the Elite are trying to get Trump I think it is actually a historical event which highlights what Trump is doing to the elite. Trump is nothing if not methodical and willing to wait long periods of time for the win, proving how crazed the establishment is by how they have acted on the Russia Collusion fantasy might just be the ticket to an outright win for the Rebellion. I note that recent events continue to prove that I have long been overly optimistic about the competence of the Elite.
Click to expand...

You have not one but THREE active investigations going on regarding the Trump campaign and Russia. Trump has managed to sidetrack one investigation by leveraging Nunes, but we shall see what happens with the other two.
 
Mac77 said:
They did and no russian fingerprints or traces of DNA was found

So the obama holdovers dropped a little peyote and had visions of Putin hacking the DNC
Click to expand...

Really, and where the government say that?
 
jamesrage said:
Actually it is a debatable issue. So far no evidence of Trump Russian collusion has been presented.
Click to expand...

But there's plenty of evidence that his campaign surrogates did.
 
Vetplus40 said:
You have not one but THREE active investigations going on regarding the Trump campaign and Russia. Trump has managed to sidetrack one investigation by leveraging Nunes, but we shall see what happens with the other two.
Click to expand...


Every day that passes makes it less likely that they will find anything, they should have found something by now if it was there. Unless they just make something up (which I think is likely) all those who have made the charges against Trump, all those who have spread this #FAKENEWS far and wide, are going to have some splaining to do because they will have just proved yet again that Trump has had their number all along.

They are dishonest.

They are incompetent.

They think that they are in charge, that they decide, that the little people and what we want does not matter...to the extent that they have taken it upon themselves to unseat THE PEOPLE'S CHOICE.
 
Last edited:
Cigar said:
This is not fake news. This is not a witch hunt. This actually happened.


We are still not conclusively able to connect the dots on the question of whether there was any coordination or collusion between members of Donald Trump’s campaign and the Russians who interfered in our election to benefit him, but those dots do continue to multiply at an alarming rate.

First, and we have to keep saying this because this fact keeps getting obscured in the subterfuge of deflection, misdirection and ideological finger-pointing about what has yet to be proven: It is absolutely clear that the Russians did interfere in our election. This is not a debatable issue. This is not fake news. This is not a witch hunt. This happened.

The investigations, rightly, are seeking to figure out exactly how and to what degree, and those questions obviously depend on knowing more about campaign contacts with Russian meddlers.


The journalistic caution in me keeps having to write that these could all be coincidences, but the journalistic instinct has learned long ago that coincidence is the albino alligator of political reality: It exists, but is exceedingly rare.



https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/03/...of-coincidence.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
Click to expand...

If it is a proven fact that "the Russians" interfered with our election, where is the proof? And would someone please define "interfered"? And did the Russian government interfere? Or merely Russians? What are the damages? In a court of law, one would have to prove damages. What are they?

Our government has often tried to stack the deck in other countries' elections. Unless a foreign gvmt is padding the votes at the ballot box, I fail to see what all the hullabaloo is about.
 
MaggieD said:
If it is a proven fact that "the Russians" interfered with our election, where is the proof? And would someone please define "interfered"? And did the Russian government interfere? Or merely Russians? What are the damages? In a court of law, one would have to prove damages. What are they?

Our government has often tried to stack the deck in other countries' elections. Unless a foreign gvmt is padding the votes at the ballot box, I fail to see what all the hullabaloo is about.
Click to expand...

If you're expecting the Intelligence Community to spill all the beans just for you, you might what to rethink that.

Fist comes the investigation, then comes trial, next comes the verdict ... and then comes the Fun stuff. :mrgreen: Like Orange Suits
 
Cigar said:
If you're expecting the Intelligence Community to spill all the beans just for you, you might what to rethink that.

Fist comes the investigation, then comes trial, next comes the verdict ... and then comes the Fun stuff. :mrgreen: Like Orange Suits
Click to expand...

If the info isn't out there, how can anyone say it's not debatable?

Can anyone even specifically say how our election was interfered with...much less who did it?
 
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