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How did we miss this? Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Federal Legalization of Marijuana Bill

Re: How did we miss this? Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Federal Legalization of Marijuana

I find the contrast in tone between this thread and the self help thread about dating a drug addict to be enlightening.

From a philosophical standpoint it's an implicit personal liberty issue vs an explicit general welfare issue. In which not only would common sense dictate that an explicit mandate of general welfare take precedent but even looking at an original founding fathers intent would also side on general welfare as personal individual rights didn't exist at the time.

We already have a harmul substance that is a major factor in 45% of violent crimes (alcohol) so why should we add another substance that could be nearly as harmful.

I truly get the personal liberty argument of marijuana but the harmful effects to society is too great to open that Pandoras box. We saw the same thing with prohibition. Prohibition greatly reduced the amount of alcohol consumed, and with it also greatly reduced alcohol related health problems..


Actually, Prohibition Was a Success - NYTimes.com


But the issue was that alcohol had become so ingrained into the fabric of our society that it wasn't able to keep the ban in place long.

Prohibition created an underground market that was quickly served by a previously insignificant thing called the mafia. Markets that are forced underground attract criminals and polluted products that kill.
 
Re: How did we miss this? Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Federal Legalization of Marijuana

We DO see a fair number of people in the ER where marijuana use is a contributing factor. No...not from smoking too much dope, but from being addicted, having no life, having parents issuing ultimatums, and then having the patient tell someone they will just go kill themselves. Once at the ER SOMEONE has to pay for the hospital visit, the lab work, usually if they are stoned they have to be held additional time til they can have an effective eval done, if they admit to expressing suicidal ideation with a plan they are typically held for 24-72 an hour. In the meantime the parents or other family members are at the hosital imploring the hospital to force them into a detox program (which doesnt exist for marijuana use) and are issuing ultimatums to the hospital staff if we let them out.

BTW...marijuana overdose is real...but I dont think there has ever been a fatality directly related to pot usage.

There has never been a person overdose from marijuana, there is no toxic limit. If you smoke too much, you will get too high, but then you won't be high, and nothing will have happened to you.
 
Re: How did we miss this? Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Federal Legalization of Marijuana

There has never been a person overdose from marijuana, there is no toxic limit. If you smoke too much, you will get too high, but then you won't be high, and nothing will have happened to you.

Unless you are Toby Keith:

 
Re: How did we miss this? Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Federal Legalization of Marijuana

There has never been a person overdose from marijuana, there is no toxic limit. If you smoke too much, you will get too high, but then you won't be high, and nothing will have happened to you.
Marijuana Overdose Symptoms, Signs & Treatment Cannabinoid Poisoning: Background, Pathophysiology, Epidemiology https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23796481

Don't make this something its not. I'm no claiming people die from marijuana us. I'm not claiming there is a drug treatment or detox program. I'm not making any claims at all. However marijuana overdose is a reality. Not because I say so but because science and the medical community says so. There is a diagnosable and defined ICD code for it.

Poisoning by cannabis (derivatives), accidental (unintentional), initial encounter

2016 2017 Billable/Specific Code

T40.7X1A is a billable/specific ICD-10-CM code that can be used to indicate a diagnosis for reimbursement purposes.
This is the American ICD-10-CM version of T40.7X1A. Other international versions of ICD-10 T40.7X1A may differ.
Reimbursement claims with a date of service on or after October 1, 2015 require the use of ICD-10-CM codes.

Abbreviated Form

Poisoning by cannabis (derivatives), accidental, init

Approximate Synonyms

Cannabis overdose
Poisoning by cannabis
Poisoning by cannabis derivative

ICD-10-CM T40.7X1A is grouped within Diagnostic Related Group(s) (MS-DRG v34.0):

917 Poisoning and toxic effects of drugs with mcc
918 Poisoning and toxic effects of drugs without mcc

Just as it isnt so because I say it is, it isnt not just because you say it isnt.
 
Re: How did we miss this? Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Federal Legalization of Marijuana

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see any posts on this issue:



IMO it's about time we started legalizing the sale, use, and possession of recreational drug substances; only criminalizing acts that cause harm to people or their property while under the influence.

Isn't that what we do with Alcohol?

I'm also against asset seizure/forfeiture laws based on this sale, use, and possession. I consider them unnecessary infringements on individual liberty.

I hope both Parties get behind this bill, and any other future bill that make personal use of recreational drugs legal.

P.S. I don't smoke pot...I don't smoke anything as I consider it a nasty habit. I have no problem with other people doing it though. :coffeepap:


She won't be able to get it to the floor. GOP is in charge, and they will never agree to take this up.
 
Re: How did we miss this? Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Federal Legalization of Marijuana

Marijuana Overdose Symptoms, Signs & Treatment Cannabinoid Poisoning: Background, Pathophysiology, Epidemiology https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23796481

Don't make this something its not. I'm no claiming people die from marijuana us. I'm not claiming there is a drug treatment or detox program. I'm not making any claims at all. However marijuana overdose is a reality. Not because I say so but because science and the medical community says so. There is a diagnosable and defined ICD code for it.

Poisoning by cannabis (derivatives), accidental (unintentional), initial encounter

2016 2017 Billable/Specific Code

T40.7X1A is a billable/specific ICD-10-CM code that can be used to indicate a diagnosis for reimbursement purposes.
This is the American ICD-10-CM version of T40.7X1A. Other international versions of ICD-10 T40.7X1A may differ.
Reimbursement claims with a date of service on or after October 1, 2015 require the use of ICD-10-CM codes.

Abbreviated Form

Poisoning by cannabis (derivatives), accidental, init

Approximate Synonyms

Cannabis overdose
Poisoning by cannabis
Poisoning by cannabis derivative

ICD-10-CM T40.7X1A is grouped within Diagnostic Related Group(s) (MS-DRG v34.0):

917 Poisoning and toxic effects of drugs with mcc
918 Poisoning and toxic effects of drugs without mcc

Just as it isnt so because I say it is, it isnt not just because you say it isnt.

A billing code does not make for an overdose. There is no toxic level of cannabis.
 
Re: How did we miss this? Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Federal Legalization of Marijuana

Somehow Congress needs to put a foot on Sessions, he who wants to go after POT.

This needs to get enough support to make an impression.

sessions follows the law, if law is changed by congress, he will not have a problem with.

the ball is in congress hands, not sessions
 
Re: How did we miss this? Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Federal Legalization of Marijuana

sessions follows the law, if law is changed by congress, he will not have a problem with.

the ball is in congress hands, not sessions

I feel ya man, but Congress has not worked in a long time, adjustments must be made till we fix the joint.
 
Re: How did we miss this? Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Federal Legalization of Marijuana

I feel ya man, but Congress has not worked in a long time, adjustments must be made till we fix the joint.

well i agree on that, however sessions has to follow the law, the constitution is clear that all law must faithfully executed


"he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the Officers of the United States"
 
Re: How did we miss this? Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Federal Legalization of Marijuana

I like Sessions a lot but Tulsi Gabbert is my 2nd favorite Democrat, so I'm not taking sides.

In my prime I did pot now and then, haven't for over 20 years. It's certainly not addictive.
 
Re: How did we miss this? Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Federal Legalization of Marijuana

well i agree on that, however sessions has to follow the law, the constitution is clear that all law must faithfully executed


"he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the Officers of the United States"

There are rules, and then there are more important rules. The will of the people must be followed and the will of the people is known here....the drug war has failed, it has failed over a very long time and to the great detriment of America and to a whole lot of Americans, it has to be over. And pot is almost certainly good for many of us, and does not harm very many people.

Our will has not registered in national law because Congress is broken, but since our will is known it must be followed, at least to the point of letting states decide if they want to allow pot or not. If they need to I am willing to make it so that the states only have this power with their own citizens with-in their own state.
 
Re: How did we miss this? Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Federal Legalization of Marijuana

There are rules, and then there are more important rules. The will of the people must be followed and the will of the people is known here....the drug war has failed, it has failed over a very long time and to the great detriment of America and a whole lot of Americans, it has to be over. And pot is almost certainly good for many of us, and does not harm very many people.

Our will has not registered in national law because Congress is broken, but since our will is known it must be followed, at least to the point of letting states decide if they want to allow pot or not. If they need to I am willing to make it so that the states only have this power with their own citizens with-in their own state.

we don't have will of the people that would be majority rule, America is based on rule of law.

until the law is changed it must be upheld
 
Re: How did we miss this? Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Federal Legalization of Marijuana

Please do not ever pretend to be small government or pro-personal liberty. You're advocating innocent people be thrown in cages for peaceably consuming a plant you don't like.

What's far more dangerous to society is allowing self-centered pricks to demand government force be used to overrule the sovereignty of other people's bodies. We'd be a lot better off throwing your hypocritical ass into a dark hole and forgetting where we left you. You can shove your fascist bull**** right up your ass.

I don't feel too strongly on this issue one way or the other. But really, these drugs are a social problem and their use does not stay confined to the individual using them. All those individuals who supposedly consume this stuff blow out their brains. They later can't hold down a job and become a burden on their parents or the rest of society, or they become criminals to support their drug habit. It does effect society in all sorts of ways: public health, crime, economics, etc....
 
Re: How did we miss this? Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Federal Legalization of Marijuana

I don't feel too strongly on this issue one way or the other. But really, these drugs are a social problem and their use does not stay confined to the individual using them. All those individuals who supposedly consume this stuff blow out their brains. They later can't hold down a job and become a burden on their parents or the rest of society, or they become criminals to support their drug habit. It does effect society in all sorts of ways: public health, crime, economics, etc....

Nope. Somebody consuming a plant peacefully in their own home has absolutely zero effect on you. That you associate everyone who smokes marijuana with "blowing their brains out" and "not being able to hold down a job" makes it obvious you're ignorant enough that no amount of reasoning with you will help.
 
Re: How did we miss this? Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Federal Legalization of Marijuana

We DO see a fair number of people in the ER where marijuana use is a contributing factor. No...not from smoking too much dope, but from being addicted, having no life, having parents issuing ultimatums, and then having the patient tell someone they will just go kill themselves. Once at the ER SOMEONE has to pay for the hospital visit, the lab work, usually if they are stoned they have to be held additional time til they can have an effective eval done, if they admit to expressing suicidal ideation with a plan they are typically held for 24-72 an hour. In the meantime the parents or other family members are at the hosital imploring the hospital to force them into a detox program (which doesnt exist for marijuana use) and are issuing ultimatums to the hospital staff if we let them out.

BTW...marijuana overdose is real...but I dont think there has ever been a fatality directly related to pot usage.

I've been smoking marijuana since I first tried in August of 1980 in my first week at college. Most of my friends smoke, especially the ones in MA now that it's legal there. My family smokes it. My brother is an executive who lives in Aspen, and he and his girlfriend and their successful friends all smoke. My husband smokes. We live in a wealthy town and most of our friends here smoke - and they are lawyers and executives and business owners and CEOs. I've never known anyone to get "addicted" to dope. Most people can smoke a bowl or a bone like most adults can have a cocktail or a glass of wine when socializing. I wouldn't know about ERs - I know about the hundred or so professional 50-somethings who have smoked it for decades like I have, and have never once had any problems because of marijuana.
 
Re: How did we miss this? Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Federal Legalization of Marijuana

I've been smoking marijuana since I first tried in August of 1980 in my first week at college. Most of my friends smoke, especially the ones in MA now that it's legal there. My family smokes it. My brother is an executive who lives in Aspen, and he and his girlfriend and their successful friends all smoke. My husband smokes. We live in a wealthy town and most of our friends here smoke - and they are lawyers and executives and business owners and CEOs. I've never known anyone to get "addicted" to dope. Most people can smoke a bowl or a bone like most adults can have a cocktail or a glass of wine when socializing. I wouldn't know about ERs - I know about the hundred or so professional 50-somethings who have smoked it for decades like I have, and have never once had any problems because of marijuana.
Do you have a point somewhere there?
 
Re: How did we miss this? Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Federal Legalization of Marijuana

Multiple bags of Cheetos. :)


Might have to steal if they need that many and they aren't showing up for work. :)
 
Re: How did we miss this? Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Federal Legalization of Marijuana

we don't have will of the people that would be majority rule, America is based on rule of law.

until the law is changed it must be upheld

I say in this case that would be morally wrong.
 
Re: How did we miss this? Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Federal Legalization of Marijuana

I have said it MANY times before...what a sane, adult does to/with his own body (or with other sane, consenting adults) is NONE OF THE GOVERNMENT'S BUSINESS.

NONE WHATSOEVER.

If I want to smoke dope, shoot heroin or drink battery acid...that is none of the government's business (assuming by doing so, I am not directly harming others).

America - land of the free...my ass it is.

Except that isn't how it works out.
 
Re: How did we miss this? Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Federal Legalization of Marijuana

Do you have a point somewhere there?

Yes. My point was that I never heard of or saw a single person get addicted to marijuana, ruin their lives because of marijuana, overdose on marijuana, or be suicidal because of marijuana. I'm surprised I had to spell that out for you. I guess I should have replied to your post to me with something as rude, but I'm not prone to ignorant posts. I assume people want to debate. I should have looked closer at who it was.
 
Re: How did we miss this? Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Federal Legalization of Marijuana

It's not going to go through because of three lobbies that I know of and a reason:

Lumber (Hemp)
Private Prison Sector
Alcohol

The government doesn't want to admit how awfully inaccurate their theories have been about marijuana.
 
Re: How did we miss this? Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Federal Legalization of Marijuana

Yeah, I've known about it. Jeff Sessions is doing his best to fight against all of this. There's no question Trump would veto this unless he spontaneously showed some backbone.

Well, Trump was in favor of legalizing and taxing cannabis before he hijacked the GOP and became a Republican, who then hit the flip flop switch at least TWICE that I am aware of, the guy is a populist, religion and coal, and deport, he is hardly a uniter that is for sure.
 
Re: How did we miss this? Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Federal Legalization of Marijuana

Yes. My point was that I never heard of or saw a single person get addicted to marijuana, ruin their lives because of marijuana, overdose on marijuana, or be suicidal because of marijuana. I'm surprised I had to spell that out for you. I guess I should have replied to your post to me with something as rude, but I'm not prone to ignorant posts. I assume people want to debate. I should have looked closer at who it was.
So you literally believe that due to YOUR anecdotal evidence, people arent addicted to marijuana and dont experience detrimental impact to their lives due to excessive marijuana use?

Whats amazing to me is that you feel the need to argue in the first ****ing place. Nowhere in my comments do I say marijuana is bad, wicked, a gateway drug, the sole source of lifes eveil, or should be criminalized banned, kept illegal or otherwise. I offered what I believe is a pretty fair comment on marijuana use.

"We DO see a fair number of people in the ER where marijuana use is a contributing factor. No...not from smoking too much dope, but from being addicted, having no life, having parents issuing ultimatums, and then having the patient tell someone they will just go kill themselves. Once at the ER SOMEONE has to pay for the hospital visit, the lab work, usually if they are stoned they have to be held additional time til they can have an effective eval done, if they admit to expressing suicidal ideation with a plan they are typically held for 24-72 an hour. In the meantime the parents or other family members are at the hospital imploring the hospital to force them into a detox program (which doesnt exist for marijuana use) and are issuing ultimatums to the hospital staff if we let them out.

BTW...marijuana overdose is real...but I dont think there has ever been a fatality directly related to pot usage."


So again...what is your point? You and your family members sound like causal users of pot. You dont sound like potheads and stoners. Say...maybe thats it. Maybe you never heard the term 'pothead' or 'stoner' and dont know that there ARE people that are actually habitual users that have lives impacted by said use. Is that it?
 
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