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Should it be illegal to be a stay-at-home mom? Why feminists are so frustrated

We actually had sex more when he stayed at home than when he works, as it seemed we were both less tired. :shrug: As I said, maybe low T to you means less than a man but I disagree.

It literally means a man is less of a man. A woman staying at home doesn't sabotage her body, while a man staying at home does sabotage his body. If anything the man is giving up more when he decides to do it. It's also simply a biological fact that women are attracted to testosterone, so sex should on the average be less.
 
Hmmm. I wonder which of you knows better how manly americanwoman's husband was in bed? That's a tough one.

I love how I always end up talking towards a bunch of men on the forum without intending it. :lamo
 
I'm speaking towards averages. On the averages when the woman is earning more than the man and he is staying at home there will be less sex, not more.

lol...I certainly never tried that. My ego would not allow it.
 
Telling women how to live their lives is the opposite of feminism. You can be a stay-at-home mom and be a feminist. You can be CEO of a billion dollar company and be a feminist. You can be a porn star and be a feminist. As long as it is your choice.

Except that is false. Feminists were trying to steer women towards careers, so they shamed other women that didn't want that for themselves. It's also false when it comes to porn stars too. Second wave feminists didn't look to highly of the porn industry as they saw it as objectifying to women, so it wasn't unusual for them to treat women in the industry as victims that needed to be saved. This would change however when third wave came around that saw doing porn as empowering. If you ask me both views are stupid.
 
It literally means a man is less of a man. A woman staying at home doesn't sabotage his body, while a man staying at home does sabotage his body. If anything the man is giving up more by doing it than the woman doing it.

Actually it literally doesn't. Low testosterone does not mean a man is less than a man as a man is not defined by his testosterone level.
 
Actually it literally doesn't. Low testosterone does not mean a man is less than a man as a man is not defined by his testosterone level.

I'm guessing that is why that condition causes his body to not function as it should, decreases his ability to build muscle, and decreases his ability to attract mates.
 
Most feminists don't think that, unless you've got some poll data or something.

I think it IS a good point, that many of the perceived issues with feminism is because women aren't working. And the point is a good one. If I had a wife who loved me and cared for me and earned enough income and asked me if I'd stay at home to take care of our child and manage the house, I'd be tempted too. If she paid for some house cleaning and yard mowers, I'd be scrambling to find a reason not to. (not today, maybe when I was twenty).

Feminists should acknowledge the good AND the bad of our gender role traditions, and I do like that they are changing those traditions. But I much prefer it to be an open field, women should feel like they can do anything in our society (largely) that they want, and it should not be ingrained in us culturally to keep them from doing it. But if they still often end up in the more "traditional" roles, so be it.
 
It literally means a man is less of a man. A woman staying at home doesn't sabotage her body, while a man staying at home does sabotage his body. If anything the man is giving up more when he decides to do it. It's also simply a biological fact that women are attracted to testosterone, so sex should on the average be less.

Did you really just make the assumption that there would be less sex in a marriage where the woman works, and the man stays home, because you guess so?

Henrin, oh boy.. If you had a gung-ho wife with a crazy career, who loved control, and who loved you, and wanted you to care for the home...

...and you let your ego get in the way and were ugly about it and insecure - yes, you'd probably get less sex.
If instead you worked hard at it, and make a kick ass home, cooked incredible meals she loved, and pampered her sometimes after a hard day of work, did little home improvements when the mood and creativity struck you...you really think that results in necessarily LESS sex?
You could be working out an hour every day in between afternoon snack and starting dinner, how is this sabotaging your body?

How would you be giving up more? If you don't want to do it, don't. Go to work, and hire help since you have dual incomes. But my guess would be that's WORSE sex, you'd BOTH be tired, busy, and the home would be in some greater state of disarray, it's harder to take vacations and manage your joint schedules when both beholden to jobs, etc.
 
Did you really just make the assumption that there would be less sex in a marriage where the woman works, and the man stays home, because you guess so?

No, I didn't guess anything.

Henrin, oh boy.. If you had a gung-ho wife with a crazy career, who loved control, and who loved you, and wanted you to care for the home...


...and you let your ego get in the way and were ugly about it and insecure - yes, you'd probably get less sex.
If instead you worked hard at it, and make a kick ass home, cooked incredible meals she loved, and pampered her sometimes after a hard day of work, did little home improvements when the mood and creativity struck you...you really think that results in necessarily LESS sex?

I don't stay at home. If any woman demands that from me then she is demanding a role reversal. She can pound sand with that request. If she wants a man that is more than willing to be a woman at her request then she should look elsewhere. Regardless, it's not always the man that gets in the way of these things. Sometimes the man agrees and so does the woman, but they are still not as happy.

You could be working out an hour every day in between afternoon snack and starting dinner, how is this sabotaging your body?

I already work out everyday and I do so with higher testosterone than stay at home dads. This means that my workouts are more effective and more worth my efforts.
 
I don't stay at home. If any woman demands that from me then she is demanding a role reversal. She can pound sand with that request. If she wants a man that is more than willing to be a woman at her request then she should look elsewhere. Regardless, it's not always the man that gets in the way of these things. Sometimes the man agrees and so does the woman, but they are still not as happy.

What kind of relationship to you envision where your spouse makes routine demands regarding whether you stay at home or pursue a career?
Is it OK if a man demands that? Good grief man, I hope you try to make her life the best life you can both imagine, and I hope she wants the same for you in contrast. And hopefully you may have some idea about what type of life the woman you choose to marry has planned, AND vice versa, before you wed. Were you planning on an arranged or mail order marriage or something?

I already work out everyday and I do so with higher testosterone than stay at home dads. This means that my workouts are more effective and more worth my efforts.
Holy Jesus, why not just take steroids and have EVEN HIGHER testosterone, since that's apparently the best way to have a long, loving, healthy relationship?

You must be very young is all I can figure, because I've never read anything so bizarre on this topic.
 
Bringing the whole world under U.S. law and The Constitution; severely punishing anyone who doesn't abide by them? I'm all for it.

Any mainstream description should be approximately the same.
Wikipedia works fine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

1. usually placed on the far right spectrum as it opposes liberalism, and Marxism. - Check
2. "Bring the whole world under U.S. Law"
they regard the complete mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary
Nationalism is the main foundation of fascism.[SUP][168][/SUP]
Check.
3. "severely punishing anyone who doesn't abide "
a martial government composed of the members of the governing fascist party—to forge national unity and maintain a stable and orderly society.[SUP][7][/SUP] Fascism rejects assertions that violence is automatically negative in nature, and views political violence, war, and imperialism as means that can achieve national rejuvenation.
Check.

And even other things that you haven't said, but that are part of the right wing movement in the U.S.;
4. anti LGBT:
Fascist Italy promoted what it considered normal sexual behaviour in youth while denouncing what it considered deviant sexual behaviour.[208
The German Nazi government strongly encouraged women to stay at home to bear children and keep hous

Do you agree?
 
Any mainstream description should be approximately the same.
Wikipedia works fine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

1. usually placed on the far right spectrum as it opposes liberalism, and Marxism. - Check
2. "Bring the whole world under U.S. Law"
they regard the complete mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary
Nationalism is the main foundation of fascism.[SUP][168][/SUP]
Check.
3. "severely punishing anyone who doesn't abide "
a martial government composed of the members of the governing fascist party—to forge national unity and maintain a stable and orderly society.[SUP][7][/SUP] Fascism rejects assertions that violence is automatically negative in nature, and views political violence, war, and imperialism as means that can achieve national rejuvenation.
Check.

And even other things that you haven't said, but that are part of the right wing movement in the U.S.;
4. anti LGBT:
Fascist Italy promoted what it considered normal sexual behaviour in youth while denouncing what it considered deviant sexual behaviour.[208
The German Nazi government strongly encouraged women to stay at home to bear children and keep hous

Do you agree?

No...I don't. Nothing I said is described there. Not to mention that most of it is bull****. Are Muslims fascists? They're anti-gay. The Khmer Rouge were anti-gay. They were communists, not fascists.
 

Am I hallucinating? You seem to be basing your own comments on a quote from one feminist in France, in 1976, which quote inspired one other feminist in Australia to agree.





Two feminists does not "feminism" make. If I found two self-identified conservatives who say that black people are stupid, you wouldn't consider yourself accountable for their statements, now would you? After all, you're you and they're them, even if all three of you consider yourself conservative.
 
Am I hallucinating? You seem to be basing your own comments on a quote from one feminist in France, in 1976, which quote inspired one other feminist in Australia to agree.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simone_de_Beauvoir



Two feminists does not "feminism" make. If I found two self-identified conservatives who say that black people are stupid, you wouldn't consider yourself accountable for their statements, now would you? After all, you're you and they're them, even if all three of you consider yourself conservative.


Pretty impressive credentials, and fits right in with today's gender identity politics.
 
Yeah...it should be mentioned that, if Simone did say that women shouldn't be allowed to choose to stay at home (and I'm a bit suspicious that that's really what she said), it was at a time when men were not really allowed that choice. There were no laws making doing so illegal, but all the relevant laws assumed that the man would be the external breadwinner, and men were generally penalized if they didn't work outside the home. Divorce laws, for example, generally assumed that men had the income, and men who didn't were in an impossible situation if they got divorced.
 

I do not know this writer, I have never read the article in question, but this seems, at first glance, to probably be an example of where context is needed and where a single snippit from a lengthy and nuanced argument is insufficient.

Now again, not actually knowing what the article in question said, I am familiar with an argument that has a similar conclusion, and I will make it here:

To put it bluntly and shortly, when you have a population that has been oppressed/repressed/shackled/etc for long enough, that status, regardless of how terrible it may be, eventually becomes familiar and carries with it the comfort of familiarity as opposed to the uncertainty of the unknown.

When you free a population of slaves, a certain % of them will voluntarily, if allowed, willingly resume their role because it is familiar and safe. It is well known that people that have been in prison for decades often suffer depression and what can only be described as homesickness after being "freed" into a world that is unfamiliar. In the words of Brooks from Shawshank Redemption "I sometimes think about getting a gun and robbing a store so they will send me back home." It is also well known that many people will voluntarily retain and uphold even the most repressive of long standing cultural or religious restrictions even when the institutions that enforce those rules have been overturned.

So, the argument is, that following a major liberation of some kind, the cruelest trick of institutionalized oppression then rears it's head, the desire of many of the oppressed to return to their state of oppression, so dependent on it have they become, and sometimes you must actively take steps, counter intuitive as it may seem, to restrict the freedom of the recently freed to freely return to their bondage. After even one single generation has passed, that problem evaporates and goes away, but that very first freed generation that have grown comfortable with and dependent on their state of oppression, they sometimes have to be forced to give it up, like a drug addict almost.


I have no idea if that is the case this author was making in this context, but it sounds like it might be, and I have heard that argument before and found it fairly compelling.
 
Am I hallucinating? You seem to be basing your own comments on a quote from one feminist in France, in 1976, which quote inspired one other feminist in Australia to agree.





Two feminists does not "feminism" make. If I found two self-identified conservatives who say that black people are stupid, you wouldn't consider yourself accountable for their statements, now would you? After all, you're you and they're them, even if all three of you consider yourself conservative.

Pretty impressive credentials, and fits right in with today's gender identity politics.

So what?

If Stephen Hawking and Brian Greene say that dogs are ***holes, nobody would be on sane ground claiming that advanced theoretical physicists hate dogs.




Just stop. It's dumb.
 
So what?

If Stephen Hawking and Brian Greene say that dogs are ***holes, nobody would be on sane ground claiming that advanced theoretical physicists hate dogs.




Just stop. It's dumb.

Says the liberal. :lol:
 
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