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Trump's Anti-LGBTQ Civil Rights Pick[W:252]

calamity

calamity

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lol...as if anyone expected Trump to do anything different.

While the nation was fixated on the meltdown of Trumpcare, the Donald Trump administration quietly appointed a former conservative think-tank staffer to head the Civil Rights Office at the Department of Health and Human Services, a move LGBTQ advocates fear will undermine the same civil rights protections the office is supposed to enforce.

The civil rights advocates are condemning the appointment of Roger Severino, a former Heritage Foundation staffer, who has argued that same-sex marriage threatens religious liberty and that civil rights protections should not extend to transgender patients.

LGBTQ Advocates Horrified By Trump Administration's Civil Rights Health Pick | The Huffington Post
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Appoint a guy who hates civil rights to head Civil Rights at DHHS....kind of like putting a guy who sued the EPA in to head the EPA.

Gotta love this guy Trump. He just destroys one department after another, And, most of the people are either clueless about it or cheer it on.
 
Re: Trump's Anti-LGBTQ Civil Rights Pick

Isn't the reasoning behind civil right protections is that it is things people can't control? If so, how does that reasoning work when talking about people that decided to get hormone treatment and or surgery?
 
Re: Trump's Anti-LGBTQ Civil Rights Pick

Henrin said:
Isn't the reasoning behind civil right protections is that it is things people can't control? If so, how does that reasoning work when talking about people that decided to get hormone treatment and or surgery?
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You do realize that not all transexuals get hormone treatment and/or surgery, right? Those things do not define whether one is transexual or not.
 
Re: Trump's Anti-LGBTQ Civil Rights Pick

calamity said:
lol...as if anyone expected Trump to do anything different.



Appoint a guy who hates civil rights to head Civil Rights at DHHS....kind of like putting a guy who sued the EPA in to head the EPA.

Gotta love this guy Trump. He just destroys one department after another, And, most of the people are either clueless about it or cheer it on.
Click to expand...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ro...-marriage-the-answer-is-complicated-22498/amp

So...if you do read this...how does it make you feel?

Short version...it says trump admin actually doing anything against the LGBTQ community is unlikely.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Re: Trump's Anti-LGBTQ Civil Rights Pick

Henrin said:
Isn't the reasoning behind civil right protections is that it is things people can't control? If so, how does that reasoning work when talking about people that decided to get hormone treatment and or surgery?
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The argument is that the diagnosed physical malady called gender dysphoria is treated by said hormones and surgeries. So, their "deciding" to seek said treatment is no more of a choice than taking chemo to treat cancer or having an inflamed appendix removed.

Did you not pay attention to anything Captain Courtesy said?
 
Re: Trump's Anti-LGBTQ Civil Rights Pick

blackjack50 said:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ro...-marriage-the-answer-is-complicated-22498/amp

So...if you do read this...how does it make you feel?

Short version...it says trump admin actually doing anything against the LGBTQ community is unlikely.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I'd say it's like trying to say Trump doing anything against the EPA is unlikely---in other words, an unlikely assertion.

BTW, the argument in your article from November is trumped by his appointment of today.
 
Re: Trump's Anti-LGBTQ Civil Rights Pick

CaptainCourtesy said:
You do realize that not all transexuals get hormone treatment and/or surgery, right? Those things do not define whether one is transexual or not.
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How do protect transgenders with anti-discrimination laws without protecting people from criticism of choice?
 
Re: Trump's Anti-LGBTQ Civil Rights Pick

calamity said:
The argument is that the diagnosed physical malady called gender dysphoria is treated by said hormones and surgeries. So, their "deciding" to seek said treatment is no more of a choice than taking chemo to treat cancer or having an inflamed appendix removed.

Did you not pay attention to anything Captain Courtesy said?
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People decide to get cancer treatment much like they decide to get hormone treatment. Something doesn't just not become a choice because it is recommended by doctors.
 
Re: Trump's Anti-LGBTQ Civil Rights Pick

Henrin said:
How do protect transgenders with anti-discrimination laws without protecting people from criticism of choice?
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I have no idea what this question means.
 
Re: Trump's Anti-LGBTQ Civil Rights Pick

Henrin said:
People decide to get cancer treatment much like they decide to get hormone treatment. Something doesn't just not become a choice because it is recommended by doctors.
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Uh, when the choice is take this treatment or die, it's hardly a choice.
 
Re: Trump's Anti-LGBTQ Civil Rights Pick

CaptainCourtesy said:
I have no idea what this question means.
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Transgenders decide to get treatment, they decide to dress and present themselves a certain way, and they decide what pronouns they wish to be called. I don't see how you can apply anti-discrimination laws to transgenders without protecting them from criticism for the choices they made.
 
Re: Trump's Anti-LGBTQ Civil Rights Pick

calamity said:
Uh, when the choice is take this treatment or die, it's hardly a choice.
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It's still a choice though. If a choice is wise to make or if it is much of a choice doesn't much matter to it being a choice or not.
 
Re: Trump's Anti-LGBTQ Civil Rights Pick

Henrin said:
Transgenders decide to get treatment, they decide to dress and present themselves a certain way, and they decide what pronouns they wish to be called. I don't see how you can apply anti-discrimination laws to transgenders without protecting them from criticism for the choices they made.
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That's not the point that I made, though. A transsexual is not defined by whether or not they have surgery or take hormones. Those were the conditions in your original post. One does not need to do any of those things to be transsexual.
 
Re: Trump's Anti-LGBTQ Civil Rights Pick

Henrin said:
It's still a choice though. If a choice is wise to make or if it is much of a choice doesn't much matter to it being a choice or not.
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Not as it pertained to your original argument. Would you strip the civil rights of chemo patients because...well, you know, they can always choose to die instead of taking chemo?
 
Re: Trump's Anti-LGBTQ Civil Rights Pick

CaptainCourtesy said:
That's not the point that I made, though. A transsexual is not defined by whether or not they have surgery or take hormones. Those were the conditions in your original post. One does not need to do any of those things to be transsexual.
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But if a choice is not made on their part then is unlikely any discrimination will happen at all.
 
Re: Trump's Anti-LGBTQ Civil Rights Pick

Henrin said:
It's still a choice though. If a choice is wise to make or if it is much of a choice doesn't much matter to it being a choice or not.
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Acting on being transsexual is a choice. Being transsexual is not. Lots of people have choices in respect to how to act on defining characteristics. Doesn't alter those definitions.
 
Re: Trump's Anti-LGBTQ Civil Rights Pick

calamity said:
Not as it pertained to your original argument. Would you strip the civil rights of chemo patients because...well, you know, they can always choose to die instead of taking chemo?
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Chemo patients are people on chemo, you know. Anyway, my argument I made earlier stands. If they made a choice it would seem the underlining reasoning behind the laws doesn't apply.
 
Re: Trump's Anti-LGBTQ Civil Rights Pick

CaptainCourtesy said:
Acting on being transsexual is a choice. Being transsexual is not. Lots of people have choices in respect to how to act on defining characteristics. Doesn't alter those definitions.
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So what kind of discrimination does a transsexual face that hasn't made a choice?
 
Re: Trump's Anti-LGBTQ Civil Rights Pick

Henrin said:
But if a choice is not made on their part then is unlikely any discrimination will happen at all.
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OK, so let's go with this. We have established that transsexuality, in and of itself is not a choice and is not defined by whether or not one has surgery or takes hormones. Is taking hormones or having surgery a choice? Yes. Here's the problem with the argument, though. It is identical to the one about homosexuality. Is being homosexual a choice? No. Is ACTING on being homosexual a choice? Yes. Now, we have a core difference. For the most part, acting on being homosexual is not public, whereas acting on being transsexual can be. The issue is, though, is the individual, at their essence, defined by those definitions? The answer is yes. Therefore, whether or not one acts on being transsexual, anti-discrimination laws apply, similar to homosexuals.
 
Re: Trump's Anti-LGBTQ Civil Rights Pick

Henrin said:
Chemo patients are people on chemo, you know. Anyway, my argument I made earlier stands. If they made a choice it would seem the underlining reasoning behind the laws doesn't apply.
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Doesn't alter the essence of who they are. Choosing to act on that is immaterial.
 
Re: Trump's Anti-LGBTQ Civil Rights Pick

CaptainCourtesy said:
Doesn't alter the essence of who they are. Choosing to act on that is immaterial.
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Actually choices make all the difference in the world. I can reject someones choices and not reject them for who they are.
 
Re: Trump's Anti-LGBTQ Civil Rights Pick

Henrin said:
So what kind of discrimination does a transsexual face that hasn't made a choice?
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Access to areas that they could not go due to the conflict between their presented and identified gender. Not that I would agree with a non-transitioning transsexual doing so, but it's an issue nonetheless.

Also, if someone discovers that the individual DOES identify as transsexual.
 
Re: Trump's Anti-LGBTQ Civil Rights Pick

Henrin said:
Actually choices make all the difference in the world. I can reject someones choices and not reject them for who they are.
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Your rejection is irrelevant when it comes to anti-discrimination laws.
 
Re: Trump's Anti-LGBTQ Civil Rights Pick

CaptainCourtesy said:
OK, so let's go with this. We have established that transsexuality, in and of itself is not a choice and is not defined by whether or not one has surgery or takes hormones. Is taking hormones or having surgery a choice? Yes. Here's the problem with the argument, though. It is identical to the one about homosexuality. Is being homosexual a choice? No. Is ACTING on being homosexual a choice? Yes. Now, we have a core difference. For the most part, acting on being homosexual is not public, whereas acting on being transsexual can be. The issue is, though, is the individual, at their essence, defined by those definitions? The answer is yes. Therefore, whether or not one acts on being transsexual, anti-discrimination laws apply, similar to homosexuals.
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And yet in neither case should they. If anti-discrimination laws exist they should only apply to things people can't control, not things people decided to do. If I discriminate against you because of a choice you made, but have no problem with who you are then it is inaccurate to say I discriminated against you because of who you are.
 
Re: Trump's Anti-LGBTQ Civil Rights Pick

CaptainCourtesy said:
Access to areas that they could not go due to the conflict between their presented and identified gender. Not that I would agree with a non-transitioning transsexual doing so, but it's an issue nonetheless.

Also, if someone discovers that the individual DOES identify as transsexual.
Click to expand...

So bathrooms in general discriminate against transsexuals?
 
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