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"If you can't make a deal with a politician, there's something wrong with you."

JumpinJack

JumpinJack

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Words to go down in history. Spoken by Trump, of course.

"I've watched the politicians. I've dealt with 'em all my life. If you can't make a good deal with a politician, there's something wrong with you, you're certainly not very good."

https://youtu.be/oPaC9dbVczI

So...if he is to be believed, then there's something wrong with Trump; he's certainly not very good.

And just a reminder, since Trump is now claiming he never said he'd repeal and replace in 64 days:

On my first day, I'm going to ask Congress to immediately send me a bill to repeal and replace Obamacare." He said similar things to this a number of times...repeal it on Day One, repeal and replace it immediately.

Just a reminder, since he's doing his dance again by trying to rewrite his history of statements and pledges. Some politicians think video doesn't exist, you can claim that those "enemy of the people" news articles are fake in saying he said those things, and that people are stupid and forgetful and won't remember, anyway.
 
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I mentioned that quote in another post. Those words will haunt him before this failure is forgotten......lol
 
JumpinJack said:
Words to go down in history. Spoken by Trump, of course.

"I've watched the politicians. I've dealt with 'em all my life. If you can't make a good deal with a politician, there's something wrong with you, you're certainly not very good."

https://youtu.be/oPaC9dbVczI

So...if he is to be believed, then there's something wrong with Trump; he's certainly not very good.

And just a reminder, since Trump is now claiming he never said he'd repeal and replace in 64 days:

On my first day, I'm going to ask Congress to immediately send me a bill to repeal and replace Obamacare." He said similar things to this a number of times...repeal it on Day One, repeal and replace it immediately.

Just a reminder, since he's doing his dance again by trying to rewrite his history of statements and pledges. Some politicians think video doesn't exist, you can claim that those "enemy of the people" news articles are fake in saying he said those things, and that people are stupid and forgetful and won't remember, anyway.
Click to expand...

He did ask, and they eventually sent him one. :roll:

It was just lousy, as bad (if not worse) as the current ACA in so far as kowtowing to Big Pharma, the AMA, and the Insurance industry.

Mostly because the Republicans in Congress never really had any organized plan to put in effect, since they never thought Hillary was going to lose.

People seem to forget that CONGRESS makes laws. All the President can do is ASK. It is up to his Party in Congress to act on his requests.

I wish people would realize this; that it applies to ALL Presidents, including Obama (as he soon found out when his own Party's congressman crapped all over his original idea in order to keep those Big Three medical industries happy).
 
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Obamacare isn't sustainable. If you calculate the figures, it doesn't add up and is doomed to fail.

The fact that Democrats are celebrating the temporary survival of Obamacare is amazing.

Obama and the Democrats had a chance to reform healthcare and he couldn't get it done. Trump has to clean his mess.
 
The R's were not interested in fixing the ACA while Obama was in the WH. They were more interested in keeping their campaign platform of repealing it.
 
JumpinJack said:
Words to go down in history. Spoken by Trump, of course.

"I've watched the politicians. I've dealt with 'em all my life. If you can't make a good deal with a politician, there's something wrong with you, you're certainly not very good."

https://youtu.be/oPaC9dbVczI

So...if he is to be believed, then there's something wrong with Trump; he's certainly not very good.

And just a reminder, since Trump is now claiming he never said he'd repeal and replace in 64 days:

On my first day, I'm going to ask Congress to immediately send me a bill to repeal and replace Obamacare." He said similar things to this a number of times...repeal it on Day One, repeal and replace it immediately.

Just a reminder, since he's doing his dance again by trying to rewrite his history of statements and pledges. Some politicians think video doesn't exist, you can claim that those "enemy of the people" news articles are fake in saying he said those things, and that people are stupid and forgetful and won't remember, anyway.
Click to expand...

His experience was always with one or a small group of politicians and usually concerning relatively small issues like local zoning etc. That is quite different than the present challenge.

But we knew he was poorly prepared for operating in a large political apparatus. He simply didn’t have the experience. But we either voted for him, didn't vote or didn't mobilise enough votes to stop him.

He is our President and we all "own" him now.
 
JumpinJack said:
Words to go down in history. Spoken by Trump, of course.

"I've watched the politicians. I've dealt with 'em all my life. If you can't make a good deal with a politician, there's something wrong with you, you're certainly not very good."

https://youtu.be/oPaC9dbVczI

So...if he is to be believed, then there's something wrong with Trump; he's certainly not very good.

And just a reminder, since Trump is now claiming he never said he'd repeal and replace in 64 days:

On my first day, I'm going to ask Congress to immediately send me a bill to repeal and replace Obamacare." He said similar things to this a number of times...repeal it on Day One, repeal and replace it immediately.

Just a reminder, since he's doing his dance again by trying to rewrite his history of statements and pledges. Some politicians think video doesn't exist, you can claim that those "enemy of the people" news articles are fake in saying he said those things, and that people are stupid and forgetful and won't remember, anyway.
Click to expand...

I take Trump with a grain of salt. All through the campaign, both primary and general he would say something one day, the complete opposite the next and deny saying anything at all on the third. But I do think the failure of Repeal and Replace actually benefits the Republicans for next years mid terms. At the end of the day, Democrats still own healthcare. If Repeal and Replace had passed, I think there would have been a ton of dissatisfaction with it and like in 2010, that dissatisfaction would have cost the GOP the House in next years midterms. Now all complaints dealing with healthcare can still be laid at the Democrats feet. Watch for the GOP to campaign vigorously against Obamacare next year. This failure just might have saved the house for the Republicans.
 
If Trump wants real reform, then he needs a serious round table made up of doctors, nurses, accountants, lawyers, insurance reps, and hospital managers.

There has to be a away to reduce the cost of a 25 dollar aspirin that is being overlooked with our current system.
 
joG said:
His experience was always with one or a small group of politicians and usually concerning relatively small issues like local zoning etc. That is quite different than the present challenge.

But we knew he was poorly prepared for operating in a large political apparatus. He simply didn’t have the experience. But we either voted for him, didn't vote or didn't mobilise enough votes to stop him.

He is our President and we all "own" him now.
Click to expand...

True statement. Very depressing, but certainly true.
 
Perotista said:
I take Trump with a grain of salt. All through the campaign, both primary and general he would say something one day, the complete opposite the next and deny saying anything at all on the third. But I do think the failure of Repeal and Replace actually benefits the Republicans for next years mid terms. At the end of the day, Democrats still own healthcare. If Repeal and Replace had passed, I think there would have been a ton of dissatisfaction with it and like in 2010, that dissatisfaction would have cost the GOP the House in next years midterms. Now all complaints dealing with healthcare can still be laid at the Democrats feet. Watch for the GOP to campaign vigorously against Obamacare next year. This failure just might have saved the house for the Republicans.
Click to expand...

It would be a farce if the R's try and campaign against something that they cant even manage to repeal......lol
 
Vetplus40 said:
It would be a farce if the R's try and campaign against something that they cant even manage to repeal......lol
Click to expand...

Perhaps, I doubt it. Politics is all about perceptions, how the mass perceive things. With Obamacare, the name itself shouts Democrat. It was passed solely by the Democrats. Democrats still own it with the failure of repeal and replace and will be held responsible for anything that goes bad with it. Truth and facts in politics have very little to do with the public perception of events or legislation, with politics in general. When next year begins, 5 states will have but one insurance company offering health insurance, no choice. 9 states will have but two. Premiums will be going up as deductibles as well. All of this will be blamed on the Democrats. Watch and write down my words.

Perceptions is all important. Obamacare was all Democratic, their idea, they are responsible for it. There no Trump care, Obamacare is still the law of the land, good, bad or indifferent. The vast majority of Americans don't follow politics on a daily basis, most are ignorant to a certain extent as to what goes on in Washington. When they see costs rise, choices eliminated, whom do you think they will blame. Remember, it is Obamacare, not Trump care.

Perceptions matter, not that the GOP could have replaced Obamacare. It will be how Obamacare effects each voter, not what might have been. Watch and see. There is group of Republicans breathing a sigh of relief that repeal and replace failed. To them, that still means Democrats own healthcare. They think the failure may have kept the house Republican next year. They felt if repeal and replace passed, they were sure to lose the house. Time will tell if they are right or wrong. But many Republicans are happy today, even though Trump and Ryan lost. Those Republicans who are happy are those congressmen. They managed to keep the albatross of healthcare, Obamacare around the Democrats neck. Perception.
 
Perotista said:
Perhaps, I doubt it. Politics is all about perceptions, how the mass perceive things. With Obamacare, the name itself shouts Democrat. It was passed solely by the Democrats. Democrats still own it with the failure of repeal and replace and will be held responsible for anything that goes bad with it. Truth and facts in politics have very little to do with the public perception of events or legislation, with politics in general. When next year begins, 5 states will have but one insurance company offering health insurance, no choice. 9 states will have but two. Premiums will be going up as deductibles as well. All of this will be blamed on the Democrats. Watch and write down my words.

Perceptions is all important. Obamacare was all Democratic, their idea, they are responsible for it. There no Trump care, Obamacare is still the law of the land, good, bad or indifferent. The vast majority of Americans don't follow politics on a daily basis, most are ignorant to a certain extent as to what goes on in Washington. When they see costs rise, choices eliminated, whom do you think they will blame. Remember, it is Obamacare, not Trump care.

Perceptions matter, not that the GOP could have replaced Obamacare. It will be how Obamacare effects each voter, not what might have been. Watch and see. There is group of Republicans breathing a sigh of relief that repeal and replace failed. To them, that still means Democrats own healthcare. They think the failure may have kept the house Republican next year. They felt if repeal and replace passed, they were sure to lose the house. Time will tell if they are right or wrong. But many Republicans are happy today, even though Trump and Ryan lost. Those Republicans who are happy are those congressmen. They managed to keep the albatross of healthcare, Obamacare around the Democrats neck. Perception.
Click to expand...

I believe exactly the opposite will happen, but we will see at the mid-terms. The Republicans control the House, Senate and WH and can't get anything done. That will not bode well for them in the next election cycle.
 
Captain Adverse said:
He did ask, and they eventually sent him one. :roll:

It was just lousy, as bad (if not worse) as the current ACA in so far as kowtowing to Big Pharma, the AMA, and the Insurance industry.

Mostly because the Republicans in Congress never really had any organized plan to put in effect, since they never thought Hillary was going to lose.

People seem to forget that CONGRESS makes laws. All the President can do is ASK. It is up to his Party in Congress to act on his requests.

I wish people would realize this; that it applies to ALL Presidents, including Obama (as he soon found out when his own Party's congressman crapped all over his original idea in order to keep those Big Three medical industries happy).
Click to expand...

While it is quite true that the President does not pass laws, he does or should help make them and get them passed to a standard the Executive requires to achieve national goals.
 
JumpinJack said:
Words to go down in history. Spoken by Trump, of course.

"I've watched the politicians. I've dealt with 'em all my life. If you can't make a good deal with a politician, there's something wrong with you, you're certainly not very good."

https://youtu.be/oPaC9dbVczI

So...if he is to be believed, then there's something wrong with Trump; he's certainly not very good.

And just a reminder, since Trump is now claiming he never said he'd repeal and replace in 64 days:

On my first day, I'm going to ask Congress to immediately send me a bill to repeal and replace Obamacare." He said similar things to this a number of times...repeal it on Day One, repeal and replace it immediately.

Just a reminder, since he's doing his dance again by trying to rewrite his history of statements and pledges. Some politicians think video doesn't exist, you can claim that those "enemy of the people" news articles are fake in saying he said those things, and that people are stupid and forgetful and won't remember, anyway.
Click to expand...

Just watch Obamacare blow up and the democrats will whine for Trump to fix it ! What about "if you like your doctor , you can KEEP your doctor , " if you like your plan you can KEEP your plan " ??? What exactly is AFFORDABLE about Obamacare ? $8,000 deductibles means having NO insurance !!! Enjoy the next two years of NO insurance .
 
Perotista said:
I take Trump with a grain of salt. All through the campaign, both primary and general he would say something one day, the complete opposite the next and deny saying anything at all on the third. But I do think the failure of Repeal and Replace actually benefits the Republicans for next years mid terms. At the end of the day, Democrats still own healthcare. If Repeal and Replace had passed, I think there would have been a ton of dissatisfaction with it and like in 2010, that dissatisfaction would have cost the GOP the House in next years midterms. Now all complaints dealing with healthcare can still be laid at the Democrats feet. Watch for the GOP to campaign vigorously against Obamacare next year. This failure just might have saved the house for the Republicans.
Click to expand...

The Dems own the first years of Obamacare.

The Republicans own it now because they have stated they see the problems, but refused to fix it. They have opted instead for people losing healthcare. Make no mistake about it, the Republicans will be blamed, rightly or wrongly. The buck stops with the party in power at the time. The Republicans own two of the three branches of government.

They will try to blame the Democrats, and Trumpers will fall in line with whatever meme Trump tells them to follow. But the people usually decide for themselves at voting time who is to blame. Trump may well be removed from office, though, and Pence may have a claim that he wasn't involved in the mess of healthcare, when the Republicans failed to fix it.
 
Socrates1 said:
Just watch Obamacare blow up and the democrats will whine for Trump to fix it ! What about "if you like your doctor , you can KEEP your doctor , " if you like your plan you can KEEP your plan " ??? What exactly is AFFORDABLE about Obamacare ? $8,000 deductibles means having NO insurance !!! Enjoy the next two years of NO insurance .
Click to expand...

The Democrats will not be going to the Republicans to fix Obamacare. The Republicans don't want to fix Obamacare. They want to return to the free market system that was failing the public.

It's shameful that American citizens have to beg politicians to help provide health care to the citizens. We are the only first world country that has such a situation.

BTW...the GOP bill did nothing to control premiums. Theirs was a giveaway to big insurance cos., including giving them millions in tax cuts. That bill had NOTHING to do with providing health care to the people of the country. It was about taking money from the people that the govt was using for health care and transferring it to the top 2% wealthy and corporations. Blue collar people are voting against their interests if they continue voting for these corporate oligarchy politicians.

The bill was all about special interests...the very thing that Trump said he was against. He made a comment to someone that he would like to take the money out of Obamacare and just give it outright to corporations, but there are rules against that.
 
JumpinJack said:
Words to go down in history. Spoken by Trump, of course.

"I've watched the politicians. I've dealt with 'em all my life. If you can't make a good deal with a politician, there's something wrong with you, you're certainly not very good."

https://youtu.be/oPaC9dbVczI

So...if he is to be believed, then there's something wrong with Trump; he's certainly not very good.

And just a reminder, since Trump is now claiming he never said he'd repeal and replace in 64 days:

On my first day, I'm going to ask Congress to immediately send me a bill to repeal and replace Obamacare." He said similar things to this a number of times...repeal it on Day One, repeal and replace it immediately.

Just a reminder, since he's doing his dance again by trying to rewrite his history of statements and pledges. Some politicians think video doesn't exist, you can claim that those "enemy of the people" news articles are fake in saying he said those things, and that people are stupid and forgetful and won't remember, anyway.
Click to expand...

Well, he identified Ryan pretty well, didn't he?
 
JumpinJack said:
The Dems own the first years of Obamacare.

The Republicans own it now because they have stated they see the problems, but refused to fix it. They have opted instead for people losing healthcare. Make no mistake about it, the Republicans will be blamed, rightly or wrongly. The buck stops with the party in power at the time. The Republicans own two of the three branches of government.

They will try to blame the Democrats, and Trumpers will fall in line with whatever meme Trump tells them to follow. But the people usually decide for themselves at voting time who is to blame. Trump may well be removed from office, though, and Pence may have a claim that he wasn't involved in the mess of healthcare, when the Republicans failed to fix it.
Click to expand...

Define "fix," particularly as it applies to Obamacare.
 
JumpinJack said:
The Dems own the first years of Obamacare.

The Republicans own it now because they have stated they see the problems, but refused to fix it. They have opted instead for people losing healthcare. Make no mistake about it, the Republicans will be blamed, rightly or wrongly. The buck stops with the party in power at the time. The Republicans own two of the three branches of government.

They will try to blame the Democrats, and Trumpers will fall in line with whatever meme Trump tells them to follow. But the people usually decide for themselves at voting time who is to blame. Trump may well be removed from office, though, and Pence may have a claim that he wasn't involved in the mess of healthcare, when the Republicans failed to fix it.
Click to expand...

Well said. The GOP is now in the position of somebody who bought the house from a previous owner and years later still keep calling them about various defects in it despite being in there for years themselves and knowing what the inspection report told them about those same defects when they bought the place.

The Republicans have an obligation to make government work - and that includes the ACA.
 
Vetplus40 said:
I believe exactly the opposite will happen, but we will see at the mid-terms. The Republicans control the House, Senate and WH and can't get anything done. That will not bode well for them in the next election cycle.
Click to expand...

Usually as history have proven, the first mid terms are not nice to the party who controls the white house. That is for sure. Obama lost 63 seats in 2010. Bush actually gained 8 seats in his first midterm, but that was because of 9-11. His first term blues was only postponed to 2006 where he lost 33 seats. So Bush II is an exception to history. Bill Clinton lost 54 seats in 1994, Bush I lost 8, Reagan lost 26 in 1982, Carter lost 15, Nixon lost 12 and so it goes. Ford never had a midterm. Bush II is only exception and were it not for 9-11, 2006 would have occurred 4 years sooner.

What I am saying is I expect the Republicans to lose seats in the house. Only the failed repeal and replace vote might dam the losses some. The GOP can afford to lose 12 seats and still retain control of the house. Can they keep their losses at 12 or below is the question? With Trump as president, I doubt it. But I do expect the republicans to use Obamacare in order to stem their loses, say from 30 down to 12 or below. It might have an effect, like I said come 2018,at the beginning of the year there will be at least five states that have only one insurance company to choose from and 9 with just two. Add the higher premiums and deductibles, Obamacare will be a good issue to campaign on. People hurt by Obamacare aren't going to care that repeal and replaced failed. The perception will be Obamacare has failed them or is making their lives worst.

Will that be enough to save house, I doubt it. Trump is the GOP's worst enemy. When it comes to elections it is how people perceive things. Not necessarily what is true or not. Perception triumphs facts even if the Republicans control the House, Senate and presidency.
 
Captain Adverse said:
He did ask, and they eventually sent him one. :roll:

It was just lousy, as bad (if not worse) as the current ACA in so far as kowtowing to Big Pharma, the AMA, and the Insurance industry.

Mostly because the Republicans in Congress never really had any organized plan to put in effect, since they never thought Hillary was going to lose.

People seem to forget that CONGRESS makes laws. All the President can do is ASK. It is up to his Party in Congress to act on his requests.

I wish people would realize this; that it applies to ALL Presidents, including Obama (as he soon found out when his own Party's congressman crapped all over his original idea in order to keep those Big Three medical industries happy).
Click to expand...
You're partially correct. Only Congress can introduce a bill, but anybody can write it (lobbyists often write bills, for example). He... given his assurances that he knows all and is the best at everything... could have written it for them to submit.
 
JumpinJack said:
The Dems own the first years of Obamacare.

The Republicans own it now because they have stated they see the problems, but refused to fix it. They have opted instead for people losing healthcare. Make no mistake about it, the Republicans will be blamed, rightly or wrongly. The buck stops with the party in power at the time. The Republicans own two of the three branches of government.

They will try to blame the Democrats, and Trumpers will fall in line with whatever meme Trump tells them to follow. But the people usually decide for themselves at voting time who is to blame. Trump may well be removed from office, though, and Pence may have a claim that he wasn't involved in the mess of healthcare, when the Republicans failed to fix it.
Click to expand...

It's not how Republicans or even Democrats see ownership. It is how those independents, the non-affiliated types see it. Those non-affiliated type make up 40% of the electorate. The word Obamacare itself spells out who owns it. Keep in mind independents don't pay much attention at all to the going ons in Washington. I would be surprised if even half of independents know repeal and replace failed. They are too busy trying to make a living, taking care of their lives. They watch their favorite TV shows, follow March Madness, etc. and don't pay attention to politics unless it personally affects them.

It's the name, Obamacare that spells out ownership of it. Nothing more or nothing less. I don't think the Democrats will be successful in trying to convince the public at large that Obamacare is now a Republican program. Do you really think the public, especially independents, the non-affiliate will buy into Obamacare being Republican now?
 
Greenbeard said:
Serious question: how stupid are their voters?
Click to expand...

I will repeat myself, politics is all about perceptions. I seriously doubt the Democrats will be able to persuade those non-affiliated types that Obamacare is now a Republican program because repeal and replace failed. Mention Obamacare and what comes to mind? President Obama and Democrats. If you can or if anyone can convince the voters, stupid or not, that Obamacare is now a Republican program because repeal and replaced failed, more power to you or whomever.

Keep in mind come January of 2018, five states will have only one insurance company, nine others just two and premiums and deductibles are scheduled to rise big time especially in those 14 states and to a lesser extent with the rest. Now if anymore insurance companies pull out of Obamacare this year, you might, just might end up with some states with no health insurance company at all.

Time will tell. The Republicans aren't going to accept ownership of Obamacare. How many Democrats want to give ownership of Obamacare to the Republicans? The Democrats were willing to fight tooth and nail to preserve Obamacare as is, I don't see that happening.

I do think the failure of repeal and Replace might stem the loses the GOP will incur in 2018 midterms. Will it be enough to keep the House, I doubt it. Trump is president after all and the voters will take their wrath out on the house for their dislike of Trump. But the failure may save a few seats for the GOP. Time will tell.
 
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