Trump wants the Dems to come to him on healthcare.

Fletch said:

No, you are wrong. Trump is a deal maker not an ideologue. The country can actually get a lot of things done under this guy. That includes democrats. If Shumer and Pelosi went to the White House with the outlines of a plan to fix Obamacare that could get X amount of democrat support, Trump would listen. The left is so filled with hatred for the guy they aren't thinking straight. Trump has been a democrat his entire life. If there was a bipartisan bill that Trump thought would pass, he would throw his weight behind it in a heartbeat.

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Nope. It's possible that this person has committed treasonous acts and will be removed from office. That is his focus. He's sweating it, as is his inner circle.

He has never shown an ability to negotiate well, except when he holds the cards and tries to bully someone. Case in point: When he wanted land next to his hotel so he could turn it into a parking lot for himself, but a little old lady lived on that property. When she had the audacity not to sell to him, he sued her on the basis of the ridiculous claim of "eminent domain." He lost, of course. In Scotland for his new resort & golf course, he was unable to work with the local residents to get their approval. He bullied his way through the process, trying to oust people from their homes.

No...he is not a deal maker. He's a bully. He didn't write the book "The Art of the Deal." That's a hoax.

He has been unable to get a legal travel ban passed because of his inability to get counsel and work out a deal that is legal. He sought to bully his way through, with his inner circle reps stating "We will not be questioned!"

He was unable to get a healthcare bill passed, despite having a large majority in both houses of Congress and having the Executive Branch, and according to him, a mandate. He refused to negotiate. Again, he threatened the politicians with "there will be consequences" if you don't vote my way.

When police reported that a senator commented on some law that was not in their favor, Trump wanted to know the senator's name so that he could "ruin his career."

No, Trump doesn't negotiate He bullies people. He's always been the owner of an organization, where he barks orders and people hop to it, or he fires them or tries to ruin their careers by public personal denigration. When a beauty queen doesn't look the way he wants, he publicly denigrates her by calling her derogatory names like "Miss Piggy" and "Miss Housekeeping" (because she was hispanic).

He seems to have no people skills whatsoever, and therefore, is not a negotiator. You've been sold by an expert con artist. He's not even a good businessman. If he had put his millions in an index fund 30 years ago, he'd have more money than he has now. That's how bad a businessman he is...he LOST profits through the years. And filed for bankruptcy six times, stiffing his creditors, even the small guys.

A small time painter had to sue one of his resorts and start foreclosure proceedings, when Trump didn't pay the full bill. Trump didn't negotiate. He sought to bully the guy.."We've paid enough." To Trump's surprise, the guy was able to set the whole resort on the auction block, unless Trump paid his little invoice. Trump didn't negotiate. He sought to bully his small creditor, using his position as the one with greater power. (Trump had to pay the invoice to stop the foreclosure.)

You've been sold a bill of goods by a very good con artist.

I said health care planning not Medicare is what he did away with.

RetiredUSN said:

Meanwhile, the current system is killing the middle class while the political hacks on here continue waving their liberal & conservative flags.

Sure, we have more people insured under the ACA, but we also have just as many people who cannot afford their ACA plans because they have to chose between the rent, food, or getting to a doctor. What good is a healthcare plan to anyone who cannot afford to use it?

Can anyone explain this?

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Not just the political hacks on here, but the political hacks in Washington as well. It seems that our federal government has descended into mindless partisanship that is keeping it from addressing the very real problems we have with health care, as well as with a lot of other issues.

If "Obamacare" actually implodes, what a victory for the Republicans! If the Republicans don't have a plan, what a victory for the Democrats! The problem is, the losers in that silly battle are the citizens of this nation.

Trump wants the Dems to come to him on healthcare

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ok. then i'd advise the Democrats to come up with the most appealing and unassailable version of Medicare for all that they can. use the failures and successes of other first world nations to craft the best version of single payer possible. next, sell it to employers and to the general public with an extensive advertising campaign. then give Trump the bill so that he can push it. i'm sure that he'd love the idea of having the system that we're eventually heading towards anyway referred to as "Trumpcare," even though it isn't.

Dittohead not! said:

Not just the political hacks on here, but the political hacks in Washington as well. It seems that our federal government has descended into mindless partisanship that is keeping it from addressing the very real problems we have with health care, as well as with a lot of other issues.

If "Obamacare" actually implodes, what a victory for the Republicans! If the Republicans don't have a plan, what a victory for the Democrats! The problem is, the losers in that silly battle are the citizens of this nation.

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Myself, I don't care which party gets the credit for healthcare.

I just do not want to see a 1/2 million people dumped overnight by some insurance company that decides to fold up the tent.

SenorXm/Sirius said:

LOL. You mean like when the POTUS, Mr. Trump said yesterday "The best thing politically is to let Obamacare explode."!!!!!!!

For the sake of 'politics' he wants to let it explode which would hurt millions and cause immense harm to the country and millions of people. That kind of mature? And how does that show he cares at ALL about the little guy? Trump suppose to be an anti-elitist, a populist. How is hoping ACA 'explodes' good for the millions of people on it?

So you are criticizing me, but have you criticize the leader of our country? if you have please post a link.

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As usual, you miss the point. All you are arguing is that since Trump is immature, you are going to show him by being even more immature yourself. That is a good strategy for the kindergarten sandbox, but that is about it. If your objective is nothing more than a race to see which party can be more childish, you are on the right path. If your objective is to actually win back congress and make substantive changes to America, you need to change course dramatically. You wanna know how democrats can win back the power they crave? By being the mature party; by proposing mature and substantive initiatives. The GOP just failed miserably on fixing healthcare. How do democrats respond? With a "Ha Ha." That should translate into votes in 2018 :roll:

JumpinJack said:

Nope. It's possible that this person has committed treasonous acts and will be removed from office.

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That is just dumb. So dumb, in fact, that I am not going to waste my time reading anything else you wrote.

Fletch said:

How do democrats respond? With a "Ha Ha." That should translate into votes in 2018 :roll:

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Absolutely. it worked BIG TIME for the GOP for the past 6-7 years.

Of all the things that have me shaking my head at Trump winning the WH, I think the thing that confuses me the most is after 8 years of vile, vicious hate directed at Obama. Directed at everything he did, and these haters never ONCE gave him or the Presidency 1 ounce of credit, these same haters now want the Dems to 'play fair', and to give Trump 'a chance'.

Are you kidding? The Republicans in the House voted 60+ times to defund ACA. They didn't want to 'fix it', they didn't want to work with anyone. They used ACA as a political tool to beat the Dems over the head with, and IT WORKED!! Now you seem surprised and angry if the Dems return the favor?

Unbelievable.

SenorXm/Sirius said:

Absolutely. it worked BIG TIME for the GOP for the past 6-7 years.

Of all the things that have me shaking my head at Trump winning the WH, I think the thing that confuses me the most is after 8 years of vile, vicious hate directed at Obama. Directed at everything he did, and these haters never ONCE gave him or the Presidency 1 ounce of credit, these same haters now want the Dems to 'play fair', and to give Trump 'a chance'.

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I see. So now you are going to demonstrate to the world that you are every bit as vile as those GOP haters that you hate. Good approach.

Are you kidding? The Republicans in the House voted 60+ times to defund ACA. They didn't want to 'fix it', they didn't want to work with anyone. They used ACA as a political tool to beat the Dems over the head with, and IT WORKED!! Now you seem surprised and angry if the Dems return the favor?

Unbelievable.

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Wrong again. I am neither surprised or angry. (The one filled with anger and hatred here is you btw). I am simply pointing out that you are becoming everything you claimed to disapprove of. The GOP was childish so you are going to be childish; the GOP was hateful so you are going to be hateful; the GOP was obstructionist so you are going to be obstructionist. See a pattern here? Hopefully you will also see that you are no different than those you revile.

SenorXm/Sirius said:

Absolutely. it worked BIG TIME for the GOP for the past 6-7 years.

Of all the things that have me shaking my head at Trump winning the WH, I think the thing that confuses me the most is after 8 years of vile, vicious hate directed at Obama. Directed at everything he did, and these haters never ONCE gave him or the Presidency 1 ounce of credit, these same haters now want the Dems to 'play fair', and to give Trump 'a chance'.

Are you kidding? The Republicans in the House voted 60+ times to defund ACA. They didn't want to 'fix it', they didn't want to work with anyone. They used ACA as a political tool to beat the Dems over the head with, and IT WORKED!! Now you seem surprised and angry if the Dems return the favor?

Unbelievable.

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They should balance co-operation and retaliation, co-operate if this is what is needed or retaliate when appropriate.

Say, "This is your own energy returning to you."

If they co-operate then in the 2018 Congressional races, we can just vote our preference like we always do. Then there doesn't have to be any big theme or movement to defeat either Party since the Republicans were punished for their treatment of Obama by Trump.

Fletch said:

I see. So now you are going to demonstrate to the world that you are every bit as vile as those GOP haters that you hate. Good approach.

Wrong again. I am neither surprised or angry. (The one filled with anger and hatred here is you btw). I am simply pointing out that you are becoming everything you claimed to disapprove of. The GOP was childish so you are going to be childish; the GOP was hateful so you are going to be hateful; the GOP was obstructionist so you are going to be obstructionist. See a pattern here? Hopefully you will also see that you are no different than those you revile.

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Yep. Those GOP haters huh? Yeah, look in the mirror.

Anyway Trump said the same thing I said, and my words mean NOTHING. But being Trump is POTUS his words carry a lot of weight.

Yet here you are post after post criticizing me for my meaningless words on a forum, but you still haven't said Boo about Trump saying he hopes for political reasons ACA explodes. Which would be devastating for MILLIONS of Americans.

Don't you dare point to me about ANYTHING. You refusing to blame your boy speaks volumes about you. And your feelings towards your fellow Americans. Your a typical hypocritical conservative.

Fletch said:

I see. So now you are going to demonstrate to the world that you are every bit as vile as those GOP haters that you hate. Good approach. Wrong again. I am neither surprised or angry. (The one filled with anger and hatred here is you btw). I am simply pointing out that you are becoming everything you claimed to disapprove of. The GOP was childish so you are going to be childish; the GOP was hateful so you are going to be hateful; the GOP was obstructionist so you are going to be obstructionist. See a pattern here? Hopefully you will also see that you are no different than those you revile.

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How easy it is for you to point the childish finger at Democrats for "threatening" to do what GOPs "actually" did the last 8 years.

As long as GOPs don't want to discuss eliminating the Hastert Rule, we know they're not serious in working with DEMs .

SenorXm/Sirius said:

Yep. Those GOP haters huh? Yeah, look in the mirror.

Anyway Trump said the same thing I said, and my words mean NOTHING. But being Trump is POTUS his words carry a lot of weight.

Yet here you are post after post criticizing me for my meaningless words on a forum, but you still haven't said Boo about Trump saying he hopes for political reasons ACA explodes. Which would be devastating for MILLIONS of Americans.

Don't you dare point to me about ANYTHING. You refusing to blame your boy speaks volumes about you. And your feelings towards your fellow Americans. Your a typical hypocritical conservative.

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The election facts are that the 4 vacant GOP house seats and one vacant DEM seat will be filled by June.

Ryan is pouring millions into the Georgia CD-6 of Price to smear a very strong Democrat, Ossoff.

DEMs also have a very strong candidate in MT, Quist. The DEM seat is safe in CA. KS-4 and SC-5 will be much tougher .

SenorXm/Sirius said:

Dems should do EXACTLY what the GOP did to the Dems and Obama did for 7 years. Tell the GOP to f'off.

The GOP used the ACA for political gains, nothing more. They never gave a rats ass about fixing it. Now they have to govern instead of just saying 'no' all the time. They're finding governing is a lot harder. There's no way the Dems should lift a finger to help them fix or repeal ACA.

Pay back is a bitch.

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I have to disagree. Both the GOP and the Dems have been "hired" to work for the American people. Millions of Americans will be severely hurt if the ACA bill implodes, and the parts that need fixing aren't fixed. So hell yes, the damned GOP has to move past being the Party of Obstructionism and learn how to do what's right for the country instead of themselves. They're in charge now, but if the Dems decide to become the new Party of Obstructionism on serious matters that affect the American people in a partisan weenie-wagging contest, then this country is truly screwed, because nobody in either the WH or the congress gives a crap about any of us.

Charles Schumer has said the democrats want to work with republicans on bi-partisan health care issues. So let's see which party is willing to do their ****ing jobs... because it's clear by now that the WH only cares about itself, so congress is literally on its own.

JumpinJack said:

Not gonna happen with this administration and with this House of Representatives. The Tea Party is in control of the House (or at least has enough of them to block), and Trump doesn't negotiate with enemies, like Hillary lubbers.

Trump operates more on the basis of instilling fear through lawsuits and threats. Look at hte scowl on his face almost always. He is not a negotiator, which requires give and take, and pulling together a consensus. He was a boss of a business. You bark orders, and if they are done, okay. If not, you're fired. If you send me an invoice, I pay only what I want, and then I file bankruptcy so I don't have to pay you the rest. That's as far removed from governing as you can get. (I think it's called being raised a spoiled rich kid.)

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All true. However, the Tea Party/"Freedom Caucus" cannot take on GOP moderates/non-insane members AND the Democrats as a voting block. So those republicans who honestly want to do the people's work (and frankly there are a lot of them) need to work with the democrats on that terrible "c-word"... compromise.

DiAnna said:

All true. However, the Tea Party/"Freedom Caucus" cannot take on GOP moderates/non-insane members AND the Democrats as a voting block. So those republicans who honestly want to do the people's work (and frankly there are a lot of them) need to work with the democrats on that terrible "c-word"... compromise.

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If the GOP would just stop requiring all 218 votes to come from their caucus, the 'Hastert Rule' from the mid 1990s; while at the same time working with at least moderate DEMs; the 37-member freedom caucus would be neutered with as few as 14 DEMs;

Instead of the majority of the majority, the 'Hastert Rule' allows a minority caucus in the majority to derail any legislation, such as the grand bargain in 2011 which caused the credit downgrade by this very same TEA/HFC.

Conservative GOPs simply won't address this 'Hastert Rule',; except for one who calls it informal. No rule is informal if it's lasted 22 years and is used every time.

Btw, Boehner got run out of DC by this freedom caucus because he actually used DEM help on critical budget issues. Boehner is now having the last laugh, having predicted this GOP mess a month ago .

CBO estimated that if the AHCA passed, it would have reduced the deficit by $340 billion over 10 years.

If your problem with Ocare was its cost, you should be really mad at the repubs for passing the medicare modernization act in 2003, which cost the govt. over $500 billion for 10 years. Premiums cover about 20% of the cost of the program, the rest, about $50 billion a year, was put on the deficit with no tax to pay for it. That is a rip off.

The Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act,[SUP][1][/SUP] also called the Medicare Modernization Act or MMA, is a federal law of the United States, enacted in 2003.[SUP][2][/SUP] It produced the largest overhaul of Medicare in the public health program's 38-year history.
The MMA was signed by President George W. Bush on December 8, 2003, after passing in Congress by a close margin.
[h=2]Costs[/h]Initially, the net cost of the program was projected at $400 billion for the ten-year period between 2004 and 2013. Administration official Thomas Scully instructed analyst Richard Foster not to tell Congress of Foster's finding that the cost would actually be over $500 billion. One month after passage, the administration estimated that the net cost of the program over the period between 2006 (the first year the program started paying benefits) and 2015 would be $534 billion.[SUP][14][/SUP] As of February 2009, the projected net cost of the program over the 2006 to 2015 period was $549.2 billion.[SUP][15][/SUP]
[h=2]Negotiating of prescription drug prices[/h]Since the enactment of Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act in 2003, only insurance companies administering Medicare prescription drug program, not Medicare, have the legal right to negotiate drug prices directly from drug manufacturers. The Medicare Prescription Drug act expressly prohibited Medicare from negotiating bulk prescription drug prices.[SUP][16][/SUP][SUP]:117[/SUP][SUP][17][/SUP] On January 31, 2017, President Trump, following his meeting with CEOs of pharmaceutical firms and the chairmen of the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America,[SUP][18][/SUP] who had promised to let "Medicare negotiate bulk discounts in the price it pays for prescription drugs," abandoned his pledge.[SUP][19]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_Prescription_Drug,_Improvement,_and_Modernization_Act[/SUP]

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DiAnna said:

I have to disagree. Both the GOP and the Dems have been "hired" to work for the American people. Millions of Americans will be severely hurt if the ACA bill implodes, and the parts that need fixing aren't fixed. So hell yes, the damned GOP has to move past being the Party of Obstructionism and learn how to do what's right for the country instead of themselves. They're in charge now, but if the Dems decide to become the new Party of Obstructionism on serious matters that affect the American people in a partisan weenie-wagging contest, then this country is truly screwed, because nobody in either the WH or the congress gives a crap about any of us.

Charles Schumer has said the democrats want to work with republicans on bi-partisan health care issues. So let's see which party is willing to do their ****ing jobs... because it's clear by now that the WH only cares about itself, so congress is literally on its own.

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I would LOVE to see both parties work together, especially concerning Health Care. Let's face it, HC in this country is broken. Every year good affordable HC it's becoming more and more out of reach for working Americans.

But I also seen what went on for the past 8 years, and I also seen the current POTUS say for political reason he hopes ACA explodes.

That tells me the GOP has NO intention of working with anyone on fixing HC. So the Dems might as well take advantage of the GOP stubbornness and dysfunction, just like the GOP took advantage for 8 years.

Trump shows how short of the job he is.

Republican sources close to the White House, aides inside the Trump administration, and GOP congressional staff involved in the health care process appear to agree on one thing: President Donald Trump has received a stinging lesson on dealmaking in Washington.

"He didn't care or particularly know about health care," a key GOP congressional aide said about Trump following the stunning defeat of the Republican health care plan Friday.
"If you are going to be a great negotiator, you have to know about the subject matter," the aide said, adding that overhauling health care is far different from building a golf course.

Sources: Trump learned a lesson on dealmaking - CNNPolitics.com

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Ignorance, combined with bluster, a terrible combination. Trump lied during the campaign, saying he would cover everyone, then the first bill he supports would take health insurance away from 24 million people over 10 years. That's pathetic.

SenorXm/Sirius said:

Anyway Trump said the same thing I said,

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That's my point. You have become the person you revile.

finebead said:

Trump shows how short of the job he is.



Ignorance, combined with bluster, a terrible combination. Trump lied during the campaign, saying he would cover everyone, then the first bill he supports would take health insurance away from 24 million people over 10 years. That's pathetic.

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And you, like everyone else on the left, continue to miss out on what a golden opportunity it is for you to have Trump in there. Pelosi, rather than mock Trump, should take him a proposal that could get bipartisan support and pass the House. I assume that Pelosi wants to be Speaker again some day, perhaps rather than standing in the corner laughing, she might actually lead. Trump is a deal maker not an ideologue. Take him a deal and see what happens.

DiAnna said:

All true. However, the Tea Party/"Freedom Caucus" cannot take on GOP moderates/non-insane members AND the Democrats as a voting block. So those republicans who honestly want to do the people's work (and frankly there are a lot of them) need to work with the democrats on that terrible "c-word"... compromise.

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The Republicans belief system is that they believe in the free market. Period. Even for health care. By definition, then, Republicans want a return to the free market health care system (which wasn't working). There are a FEW Republicans whose constituents are demanding some assistance with health care, and some protections. A FEW Republicans who don't want to be saddled with the meme that they kicked millions off health care, which resulted in people suffering and dying.

The Tea Party has a large enough block to block any Republican agenda bill. The Republicans, even the moderate ones, will never agree just to tweak Obamacare to make it work better. That's against their party platform and their ideology. That is the only thing that Democrats will agree to: tweaking Obamacare. The Dems are not going to come to the table to dismantle Obamacare. They come out ahead politically by not doing anything, because Obamacare will continue to exist, unless the Republicans can pass something else.

The Democrats, after having faced eight years of almost total obstruction by the Republicans, are not eager to start "compromising" with the Party of No.

In the meantime, the Republicans are going to actively work to defund Obamacare and change provisions, to ensure it collapses. They will do that before they "compromise." Compromise is a dirty word to most of the Republicans, now, except the old guys who are of the old normal Republican ideology.

Republican lawmakers are expected to use the budget process, which is limited to provisions that affect federal revenues and spending and requires only a simple majority to pass. It would enable Congress to repeal the Obamacare mandates that individuals have coverage and that companies with 50 or more employees provide workers with affordable insurance. Also, it can do away with the federal subsidies, eliminate funding for Medicaid expansion and cancel a multitude of Obamacare-related taxes.

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Republicans take first step to repeal Obamacare - CNNPolitics.com

House and Senate Pass FY 2017 Budget Resolution to Set into Motion the Repeal of Obamacare

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House, Senate Pass Budget Resolution in First Step Toward Repealing Obamacare | The National Law Review

All Republicans in the House, except Rand Paul, voted for the budget resolution to repeal Obamacare through the federal budget. The only issue the moderates have with the Tea Party is that the Tea Party doesn't want a replacement, while some moderates do. But the moderates can live with no replacement, as long as they aren't blamed for it, obviously, since they have already voted to repeal Obamacare.

Fletch said:

And you, like everyone else on the left, continue to miss out on what a golden opportunity it is for you to have Trump in there. Pelosi, rather than mock Trump, should take him a proposal that could get bipartisan support and pass the House. I assume that Pelosi wants to be Speaker again some day, perhaps rather than standing in the corner laughing, she might actually lead. Trump is a deal maker not an ideologue. Take him a deal and see what happens.

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You should not ASSUME that you know the totality of someones position because you have seen a part of it, and that they must think what you assume they all think.

To some extent, I agree with your position. It is stupid of Trump to try and blame dems for not supporting the Ryan plan to gut Ocare and throw 24 million people off of health insurance. Worth saying again, that's just sheer stupidity.

But, you are correct, Pelosi has an opportunity. I don't give it very good odds, but its an opening. I would go in with fixes to Ocare, let's say we limit the lifetime max to $5 million, but the govt. steps in after that, sort of a super high risk pool, or re-insurance if you will, and they take care of the few extreme cases with top flight health care. I am ok with greater flexibility for the insurance companies, within limits.

Then I would tell Trump that we won't support tax reform or anything else, until we fix healthcare. Trump put it first, we agree, and we are not moving on other bills until healthcare is fixed. And by fixing it, we do NOT mean kicking poor older folks off of insurance. Doing that would require bi-partisan support, and we would probably get a better system that way, maybe.

But at that point, if Ocare failed in 2 years, and Trump and the repub in congress failed to lift a finger to fix it, then it is on the repubs, not the dems, because we tried to put together a bi-partisan plan to fix it, see, here's our plan, and the repubs just said NO, like the last 8 years.

Edit: if the plan does not address the drug companies and their abuse of the patent system to charge obnoxious prices for new drugs, reform will probably fail. It is NOT just about who has insurance or a subsidy, it is also about how much we pay for drugs, medicare fraud (like the oxygen equipment a small provider left at my parents house for 3 months despite repeated calls to come get it as it was no longer necessary), medical appliances like artificial knees that can be bought in Europe for a small fraction of the price in the US. Conservatives only blame Ocare, when we let the industry rip us off with support from the congress, the FDA erecting barriers to entry and keeping prices high. Ocare is NOT the only problem out there, and it all needs to be fixed, or healthcare will cost too much. Read about Harvoni costing $80,000 in the USA, and the same costs $900 in India. That is why the drug companies (and congress) are against re-importation of drugs. The drug companies are ripping off the people in the US, with the help of the obnoxiously lobbied congress (both dem and repub). There is too much money in politics and lobbying, and the people suffer with high prices.