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Honest Question about (immigration) Assimilation

E

Exactice

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Hey Gang, I have a serious question/concern. Regarding, immigration and intent of them to assimilate to our countries belief? (I am educating myself and also trying to understand the situation more)

with that I may have a bias view so please help educate me and reason with me.


With respect to our constitution and regards to our religion. I feel many recent conflicts have been more and more about religious disagreements. What I mean is, Immigration is a common place thing and I am going to use specific races as examples.

Asians, Immigrate often, while likely there are criminals within immigrants. Do we see terrorist threat from Asians or a concern of terrorism from Asians? If we do in what way and why. If we dont, then Why not? They are immigrants, why are they not a terrorist threat?

What about Europeans, British, Swedish, whatever....

What about, Australians or Canadians.....


Now we have the bias, of Muslims, are they any different from Asians, Europeans, Canadians? NO they are human beings that want a better life? The difference is culture and Religious beliefs right? Muslims themselves are NOT bad people.


The point of this, is, Muslims that want to immigrate or leave their country of oppression, is not an issue. To me the issue is their cultural beliefs that interject with our nations religious laws and assimilation, more so our society of acceptance. Are they willing to accept our Nation of laws and assimilate to our nation of multi cultural beliefs and how we have become tolerant of each religion and beliefs.


To me what I see is that, even though these people immigrate to American, legally, illegally, they chose to bring their country/societies beliefs to American. They feel they can engage in their societies beliefs and must force others to follow their beliefs, because America is tolerant of religious freedoms. Which to me is incorrect.

You are free to choose whatever religion you choose, You are free to practice whatever religion you choose. But you are not able to force your religious beliefs on others. The issue I see with the specified religions is that, if you dont agree with them, you are wrong, and then conflict begins. This is not assimilation to American Culture, this is bringing their Society, their culture and forcing on American traditions.


This is my concern of immigration. I am all for it, legally and more so explaining to the legal immigrants, If you come into this country, You are coming in with regards to assimilate to the American Culture. You can practice your religion and your beliefs. But this is not your country of origins and to expect Americans to assimilate to you/their country of origins and social belief's is not going to happen. If you are not willing to follow the laws of the land, and you are coming in to change the American Society. Then please feel free to find another country that is safe but practices your social and religious beliefs.


Thoughts, is this fair? Is this a concern, am I being unfair, or socially bias?
 
Last edited:
Eh?

I dunno.

The only requirement to be an American is fidelity to the Constitution.

There's nothing about culture or beliefs there. All those crying about "American Culture" are full of it, IMO. It's a charade.

Come here through legal channels, swear your oath and do your best to uphold it. Everything else is optional. That's what freedom means. Anything else is less than free.
 
Chomsky said:
Eh?

I dunno.

The only requirement to be an American is fidelity to the Constitution.

There's nothing about culture or beliefs there. All those crying about "American Culture" are full of it, IMO. It's a charade.

Come here through legal channels, swear your oath and do your best to uphold it. Everything else is optional. That's what freedom means. Anything else is less than free.
Click to expand...


Thats true, So that is my questions, where is the line, What I am concerned about is, 2 warring religions, migrate to the same city.... half of one religion on oneside, and half on the other, and their social beliefs no spill on to American Soil. At what point is the line drawn, where sure your egregious beliefs are totally ok, but when you start conflict, its not.


Or are we tolerant to allow these types of religious conflicts within our cities?
 
Chomsky said:
Eh?

I dunno.

The only requirement to be an American is fidelity to the Constitution.

There's nothing about culture or beliefs there. All those crying about "American Culture" are full of it, IMO. It's a charade.

Come here through legal channels, swear your oath and do your best to uphold it. Everything else is optional. That's what freedom means. Anything else is less than free.
Click to expand...



Sorry also to clarify, there is just a little more to that than, just swear and oath, and best to uphold it,.

Below is what I believe to be American Culture, Not Kardashians, the Hills, or 90201. what the USCIS puts out and any legal applicant is expected to follow, BUT that also means and legal CITIZEN, naturally born is to follow as well.

https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship/learners/citizenship-rights-and-responsibilities


Responsibilities


Support and defend the Constitution.

Stay informed of the issues affecting your community.

Participate in the democratic process.

Respect and obey federal, state, and local laws.

Respect the rights, beliefs, and opinions of others.

Participate in your local community.

Pay income and other taxes honestly, and on time, to federal, state, and local authorities.

Serve on a jury when called upon.

Defend the country if the need should arise.
 
Last edited:
Maybe it is semantics, but the first half of the OP confused me. We do know that most Muslims are Asian, right? There seems to be a distinction made between Asians and Muslims. like they cannot be one in the same. Or is the first half treating Muslims as if they are a race instead of a religion? Confused.....
 
natsb said:
Maybe it is semantics, but the first half of the OP confused me. We do know that most Muslims are Asian, right? There seems to be a distinction made between Asians and Muslims. like they cannot be one in the same. Or is the first half treating Muslims as if they are a race instead of a religion? Confused.....
Click to expand...

Sorry.... re reading it you are absolutely correct. That was my opint I was trying to convey

Let me try to clarify....

A race is just a race, are religious belief, regardless of race is of concern. You are right you caught my point, but I articulated it wrong.

Meaning exactly that, a Muslim by race, may be a christian by religion, An Asian can be a muslim as by religion.

While again this is my ignorant bias, a specific religion seems to be a concern as it does go against "western" religion, and a source of conflict. Point being, when ANYONE immigrates to American, While we are not to discriminate, against religion, when does it become a point where it is of concern for, conflict, due to religion or social beliefs.
 
Exactice said:
Hey Gang, I have a serious question/concern. Regarding, immigration and intent of them to assimilate to our countries belief? (I am educating myself and also trying to understand the situation more)

with that I may have a bias view so please help educate me and reason with me.


With respect to our constitution and regards to our religion. I feel many recent conflicts have been more and more about religious disagreements. What I mean is, Immigration is a common place thing and I am going to use specific races as examples.

Asians, Immigrate often, while likely there are criminals within immigrants. Do we see terrorist threat from Asians or a concern of terrorism from Asians? If we do in what way and why. If we dont, then Why not? They are immigrants, why are they not a terrorist threat?

What about Europeans, British, Swedish, whatever....

What about, Australians or Canadians.....


Now we have the bias, of Muslims, are they any different from Asians, Europeans, Canadians? NO they are human beings that want a better life? The difference is culture and Religious beliefs right? Muslims themselves are NOT bad people.


The point of this, is, Muslims that want to immigrate or leave their country of oppression, is not an issue. To me the issue is their cultural beliefs that interject with our nations religious laws and assimilation, more so our society of acceptance. Are they willing to accept our Nation of laws and assimilate to our nation of multi cultural beliefs and how we have become tolerant of each religion and beliefs.


To me what I see is that, even though these people immigrate to American, legally, illegally, they chose to bring their country/societies beliefs to American. They feel they can engage in their societies beliefs and must force others to follow their beliefs, because America is tolerant of religious freedoms. Which to me is incorrect.

You are free to choose whatever religion you choose, You are free to practice whatever religion you choose. But you are not able to force your religious beliefs on others. The issue I see with the specified religions is that, if you dont agree with them, you are wrong, and then conflict begins. This is not assimilation to American Culture, this is bringing their Society, their culture and forcing on American traditions.


This is my concern of immigration. I am all for it, legally and more so explaining to the legal immigrants, If you come into this country, You are coming in with regards to assimilate to the American Culture. You can practice your religion and your beliefs. But this is not your country of origins and to expect Americans to assimilate to you/their country of origins and social belief's is not going to happen. If you are not willing to follow the laws of the land, and you are coming in to change the American Society. Then please feel free to find another country that is safe but practices your social and religious beliefs.


Thoughts, is this fair? Is this a concern, am I being unfair, or socially bias?
Click to expand...


Exactice; “…we see terrorist threat from Asians…”

Asians are near bottom of the list of terrorist threat.

Exactice: “What about Europeans, British, Swedish, whatever....”

People coming from Euro countries are more likely terrorists than those coming from the 7 countries Trump wants to ban.

Exactive: “What about, Australians or Canadians.....”

In the near future, terrorists may use Canada and Australia as a way to enter the US. Then we deal with that, as always with everything we have in our history.

Exactice: “Now we have the bias, of Muslims, are they any different from Asians, Europeans, Canadians? NO they are human beings that want a better life?”

Just to add, what Asians, Europeans and Canadiens are emigrating to the US because they are being killed in their own country?

Exactice: “Are they willing to accept our Nation of laws and assimilate”

By my observation, they are more than willing to accept as you say. Show me otherwise.

Exactice: “They feel they can engage in their societies beliefs and must force others to follow their beliefs…”

Give me example.

Exactice: “You are free to choose whatever religion you choose, etc…

Yup.

“to expect Americans to assimilate to you/their country of origins and social belief's is not going to happen.”

Prove that it has not happened already. It’s your claim, back it up. I’m not talking about a false binary. Please elucidate.

“Thoughts, is this fair? Is this a concern, am I being unfair, or socially bias?”

No, not fair. Yes, a concern. I don’t know if you’re being unfair. Yes, socially bias (not a big deal).
 
Exactice said:
Hey Gang, I have a serious question/concern. Regarding, immigration and intent of them to assimilate to our countries belief? (I am educating myself and also trying to understand the situation more)

with that I may have a bias view so please help educate me and reason with me.


With respect to our constitution and regards to our religion. I feel many recent conflicts have been more and more about religious disagreements. What I mean is, Immigration is a common place thing and I am going to use specific races as examples.

Asians, Immigrate often, while likely there are criminals within immigrants. Do we see terrorist threat from Asians or a concern of terrorism from Asians? If we do in what way and why. If we dont, then Why not? They are immigrants, why are they not a terrorist threat?

What about Europeans, British, Swedish, whatever....

What about, Australians or Canadians.....


Now we have the bias, of Muslims, are they any different from Asians, Europeans, Canadians? NO they are human beings that want a better life? The difference is culture and Religious beliefs right? Muslims themselves are NOT bad people.


The point of this, is, Muslims that want to immigrate or leave their country of oppression, is not an issue. To me the issue is their cultural beliefs that interject with our nations religious laws and assimilation, more so our society of acceptance. Are they willing to accept our Nation of laws and assimilate to our nation of multi cultural beliefs and how we have become tolerant of each religion and beliefs.


To me what I see is that, even though these people immigrate to American, legally, illegally, they chose to bring their country/societies beliefs to American. They feel they can engage in their societies beliefs and must force others to follow their beliefs, because America is tolerant of religious freedoms. Which to me is incorrect.

You are free to choose whatever religion you choose, You are free to practice whatever religion you choose. But you are not able to force your religious beliefs on others. The issue I see with the specified religions is that, if you dont agree with them, you are wrong, and then conflict begins. This is not assimilation to American Culture, this is bringing their Society, their culture and forcing on American traditions.


This is my concern of immigration. I am all for it, legally and more so explaining to the legal immigrants, If you come into this country, You are coming in with regards to assimilate to the American Culture. You can practice your religion and your beliefs. But this is not your country of origins and to expect Americans to assimilate to you/their country of origins and social belief's is not going to happen. If you are not willing to follow the laws of the land, and you are coming in to change the American Society. Then please feel free to find another country that is safe but practices your social and religious beliefs.


Thoughts, is this fair? Is this a concern, am I being unfair, or socially bias?
Click to expand...

What is the countries beliefs that they are assimilating to and since when did the USA have a religion for them to convert to?
 
bluesmoke said:
Exactice; “…we see terrorist threat from Asians…”

Asians are near bottom of the list of terrorist threat.

Exactice: “What about Europeans, British, Swedish, whatever....”

People coming from Euro countries are more likely terrorists than those coming from the 7 countries Trump wants to ban.

Exactive: “What about, Australians or Canadians.....”

In the near future, terrorists may use Canada and Australia as a way to enter the US. Then we deal with that, as always with everything we have in our history.

Exactice: “Now we have the bias, of Muslims, are they any different from Asians, Europeans, Canadians? NO they are human beings that want a better life?”

Just to add, what Asians, Europeans and Canadiens are emigrating to the US because they are being killed in their own country?

Exactice: “Are they willing to accept our Nation of laws and assimilate”

By my observation, they are more than willing to accept as you say. Show me otherwise.

Exactice: “They feel they can engage in their societies beliefs and must force others to follow their beliefs…”

Give me example.

Exactice: “You are free to choose whatever religion you choose, etc…

Yup.

“to expect Americans to assimilate to you/their country of origins and social belief's is not going to happen.”

Prove that it has not happened already. It’s your claim, back it up. I’m not talking about a false binary. Please elucidate.

“Thoughts, is this fair? Is this a concern, am I being unfair, or socially bias?”

No, not fair. Yes, a concern. I don’t know if you’re being unfair. Yes, socially bias (not a big deal).
Click to expand...


I made a mistake in my initial post, and did not clarify, my apologies, the intent was to prove a nationality was not the cause of threat, but the religious fanatics was. Again, asians being at the bottom, but what about a religious fanatic Asian,

Is a Muslim, a threat? No but a religious fanatic, might be.


With that being, said. To concur with you response, YOU are right, Muslims are NOT necessarily, not complying with our American culture. THIS is 100% fact and this is my point. Its those that follow a strict social structure that they are use to, those that follow a strict religion that they are use to. NOT the actual person or country, just because they come from that country.

If those that come from those countries are true in the fact the they will escape their country of danger to live among fellow US citizens, and become a citizen. Then I see no problem. The issue I see is those that again bring their beliefs and force their beliefs on others, OR and this to me is a bigger one, they continue their fight in our country that they were fleeing because of the same disagreements they had in their own country.
 
Quag said:
What is the countries beliefs that they are assimilating to and since when did the USA have a religion for them to convert to?
Click to expand...

Whoops that was meant to say, "our acceptance of all religions" sorry... it was NOT meant to mean a single US religion, my error.

Basically meaning, within our constitution we are tolerant and accepting of all religions as long as you do not force your beliefs on others and you respect others beliefs.
 
Exactice said:
Sorry also to clarify, there is just a little more to that than, just swear and oath, and best to uphold it,.

Below is what I believe to be American Culture, Not Kardashians, the Hills, or 90201. what the USCIS puts out and any legal applicant is expected to follow, BUT that also means and legal CITIZEN, naturally born is to follow as well.

https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship/learners/citizenship-rights-and-responsibilities


Responsibilities


Support and defend the Constitution.

Stay informed of the issues affecting your community.

Participate in the democratic process.

Respect and obey federal, state, and local laws.

Respect the rights, beliefs, and opinions of others.

Participate in your local community.

Pay income and other taxes honestly, and on time, to federal, state, and local authorities.

Serve on a jury when called upon.

Defend the country if the need should arise.
Click to expand...

I don't believe that means much to people coming here anymore, especially the middle east. They don't care about our constitution, or assimilating, they just want to get our of their countries and we are one of the easiest to get into. I don't care if people keep their culture, they should! Just don't push it on me.
 
Exactice said:
Hey Gang, I have a serious question/concern. Regarding, immigration and intent of them to assimilate to our countries belief? (I am educating myself and also trying to understand the situation more)

with that I may have a bias view so please help educate me and reason with me.


With respect to our constitution and regards to our religion. I feel many recent conflicts have been more and more about religious disagreements. What I mean is, Immigration is a common place thing and I am going to use specific races as examples.

Asians, Immigrate often, while likely there are criminals within immigrants. Do we see terrorist threat from Asians or a concern of terrorism from Asians? If we do in what way and why. If we dont, then Why not? They are immigrants, why are they not a terrorist threat?

What about Europeans, British, Swedish, whatever....

What about, Australians or Canadians.....


Now we have the bias, of Muslims, are they any different from Asians, Europeans, Canadians? NO they are human beings that want a better life? The difference is culture and Religious beliefs right? Muslims themselves are NOT bad people.


The point of this, is, Muslims that want to immigrate or leave their country of oppression, is not an issue. To me the issue is their cultural beliefs that interject with our nations religious laws and assimilation, more so our society of acceptance. Are they willing to accept our Nation of laws and assimilate to our nation of multi cultural beliefs and how we have become tolerant of each religion and beliefs.


To me what I see is that, even though these people immigrate to American, legally, illegally, they chose to bring their country/societies beliefs to American. They feel they can engage in their societies beliefs and must force others to follow their beliefs, because America is tolerant of religious freedoms. Which to me is incorrect.

You are free to choose whatever religion you choose, You are free to practice whatever religion you choose. But you are not able to force your religious beliefs on others. The issue I see with the specified religions is that, if you dont agree with them, you are wrong, and then conflict begins. This is not assimilation to American Culture, this is bringing their Society, their culture and forcing on American traditions.


This is my concern of immigration. I am all for it, legally and more so explaining to the legal immigrants, If you come into this country, You are coming in with regards to assimilate to the American Culture. You can practice your religion and your beliefs. But this is not your country of origins and to expect Americans to assimilate to you/their country of origins and social belief's is not going to happen. If you are not willing to follow the laws of the land, and you are coming in to change the American Society. Then please feel free to find another country that is safe but practices your social and religious beliefs.


Thoughts, is this fair? Is this a concern, am I being unfair, or socially bias?
Click to expand...

You're correct.

That's why we will implement Trump's "Extreme Vetting."

Only a few of the most highly qualified immigrants will be allowed in.

"Assimilation Potential" will be one of the most important benchmarks and lie detector tests will be used on those suspected of harboring problematic beliefs, aggression, hostility, extreme religious beliefs, etc.

For the few that are allowed in......."Extreme Surveillance" will follow them to make sure we have chosen correctly.

Your concerns are valid and will be addressed as the U.S. moves into better days after the Supreme Court is fully staffed again.

:2usflag:
 
Exactice said:
Whoops that was meant to say, "our acceptance of all religions" sorry... it was NOT meant to mean a single US religion, my error.

Basically meaning, within our constitution we are tolerant and accepting of all religions as long as you do not force your beliefs on others and you respect others beliefs.
Click to expand...

OK that works
 
Exactice said:
Sorry also to clarify, there is just a little more to that than, just swear and oath, and best to uphold it,.

Below is what I believe to be American Culture, Not Kardashians, the Hills, or 90201. what the USCIS puts out and any legal applicant is expected to follow, BUT that also means and legal CITIZEN, naturally born is to follow as well.

https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship/learners/citizenship-rights-and-responsibilities


Responsibilities


Support and defend the Constitution.

Stay informed of the issues affecting your community.

Participate in the democratic process.

Respect and obey federal, state, and local laws.

Respect the rights, beliefs, and opinions of others.

Participate in your local community.

Pay income and other taxes honestly, and on time, to federal, state, and local authorities.

Serve on a jury when called upon.

Defend the country if the need should arise.
Click to expand...

Obama did all that and he was still accused of being an outsider. So if a President of the US that was born and raised here and did everything he was supposed to can still be accused of not assimilating then what hope do Muslims or any people of color, including those born and raised or brought here as refugees, have?
 
holbritter said:
I don't believe that means much to people coming here anymore, especially the middle east. They don't care about our constitution, or assimilating, they just want to get our of their countries and we are one of the easiest to get into. I don't care if people keep their culture, they should! Just don't push it on me.
Click to expand...

This is exactly my point, Sure they want to get out of their war torn country. One that may be oppressive. But they also dont care about the country they are coming to or even willing to assimilate to it. They want it to be exactly like their home country, just without the war.... They act and treat others like they did in their country, Some of which IS NOT similar to the American Values or belief systems we have in place. Believe in who you believe, but dont start your conflicts in our country, if you want to fight go back to your country that fights.

Moot said:
Obama did all that and he was still accused of being an outsider. So if a President of the US that was born and raised here and did everything he was supposed to can still be accused of not assimilating then what hope do Muslims or any people of color, including those born and raised or brought here as refugees, have?
Click to expand...

Politics claimed him an outsider, Lot the nation. They elected him as POTUS, that speaks volumes. What hope? thats a good questions, Why choose America in the first place. IF YOU CHOOSE to leave your home origin, would you not do your homework and understand and accept the surroundings?


Think of it this way, You live on the North Side of town, but you want to move, the east side of town is extremely CHEAP and easy to get to, The south side is the farthest and most expensive. Do you move to the east side just because, or do you look at homes there, and see if they meet your need, Do you visit schools and shopping centers and do your research about the location before you pick up and move your whole life to that new area. While this is not nearly the same as a refugee moving. They still have options for countries that best fit their needs. US is not the catch all country and to expect it to be.... is unrealistic.
 
Exactice said:
I made a mistake in my initial post, and did not clarify, my apologies, the intent was to prove a nationality was not the cause of threat, but the religious fanatics was. Again, asians being at the bottom, but what about a religious fanatic Asian,

Is a Muslim, a threat? No but a religious fanatic, might be.


With that being, said. To concur with you response, YOU are right, Muslims are NOT necessarily, not complying with our American culture. THIS is 100% fact and this is my point. Its those that follow a strict social structure that they are use to, those that follow a strict religion that they are use to. NOT the actual person or country, just because they come from that country.

If those that come from those countries are true in the fact the they will escape their country of danger to live among fellow US citizens, and become a citizen. Then I see no problem. The issue I see is those that again bring their beliefs and force their beliefs on others, OR and this to me is a bigger one, they continue their fight in our country that they were fleeing because of the same disagreements they had in their own country.
Click to expand...


There are Muslims who are strict followers of Islam as a cultural combination of social structure and religion as Sharia along in respect to US civil code and law. Just as do Jews and Christians, whom have strict practitioners that dislike many of our laws and at times confront those laws. All three religions have tribunals.

I also disagree with those who have been here for generations that try to impose their beliefs on others.

In what way are others continuing their fight here? What fight? Examples would help.
 
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