AHCA noose hanging around Ryan's neck.

haymarket · Mar 23, 2017

Re: AHCA noose hanging on Ryn's neck.

Moot said:
They were still conservatives....the tea party didn't just come out of nowhere.

Agreed. Moot - its just a pet peeve of mine when people talk about the Tea Party when there was no such thing that ever ran anybody for office on that party.

Moot · Mar 23, 2017

Re: AHCA noose hanging on Ryn's neck.

haymarket said:
Agreed. Moot - its just a pet peeve of mine when people talk about the Tea Party when there was no such thing that ever ran anybody for office on that party.

The tea party aka Freedom Caucus is a faction within the GOP....just like the Blue Dogs are faction of the Democrat party.

To my knowledge the NeoCons never ran anyone for office, either.

Moot · Mar 23, 2017

Re: AHCA noose hanging on Ryn's neck.

Hawkeye10 said:
It is the Corporate Class who corrupted government, dont want it to work well, both parties (Obama never gave two ****s about good government, and a lot of people dont care, they loved on him anyways), The TeaParty was a rebellion against that.

Plus if Ryan could not figure out A.T. that Washington needs to work, that the people are demanding that it start to work again, that would not shock me, cause he sucks.

The tea party rose up not because they wanted good government, but because they wanted no [federal] government. Frankly, I don't know why they even bother even calling themselves Americans.

Boehner and Obama had the same problem that Ryan now has to deal with....the Freedom Caucus.

In spite of the obstructionism....Obama left the government much better off than the one he inherited. I seriously doubt that Trump will be able to say the same when he leaves office.

chromium · Mar 23, 2017

Re: AHCA noose hanging on Ryn's neck.

Hawkeye10 said:
Ryan sucked both Before Trump and After Trump.

ARGUMENT REJECTED

Ryan isn't the only one to blame for this, far from it

Really how can you deny Trump's complicity in this? He could've told Ryan to "**** off i'm gonna veto it" and come up with his own plan, but too much work or whatever

chromium · Mar 23, 2017

Re: AHCA noose hanging on Ryn's neck.

Moot said:
The tea party rose up not because they wanted good government, but because they wanted no [federal] government. Frankly, I don't know why they even bother even calling themselves Americans.

Boehner and Obama had the same problem that Ryan now has to deal with....the Freedom Caucus.

In spite of the obstructionism....Obama left the government much better off than the one he inherited. I seriously doubt that Trump will be able to say the same when he leaves office.

Really they're just libertarians who for some reason the republican party allowed to run in elections. And now it's biting them in the ass

haymarket · Mar 23, 2017

Re: AHCA noose hanging on Ryn's neck.

Moot said:
The tea party aka Freedom Caucus is a faction within the GOP....just like the Blue Dogs are faction of the Democrat party.

To my knowledge the NeoCons never ran anyone for office, either.

I understand. I really do. And I am not taking issue with you - just their name and the fundamental dishonesty of it.

So do NOT call yourself a PARTY in your own label when you are laboring in the political arena if you are not a PARTY.

Moot · Mar 23, 2017

Re: AHCA noose hanging on Ryn's neck.

chromium said:
Really they're just libertarians who for some reason the republican party allowed to run in elections. And now it's biting them in the ass

Because they're libertarian-right...and that brand of the GOP has been there since the 30's and 40s. IE: Birchers, Von Mises, Rothbard, Skousen, etc.. Beck was pushing their philosphies pretty hard on FoxNews.

Moot · Mar 23, 2017

Re: AHCA noose hanging on Ryn's neck.

haymarket said:
I understand. I really do. And I am not taking issue with you - just their name and the fundamental dishonesty of it.

So do NOT call yourself a PARTY in your own label when you are laboring in the political arena if you are not a PARTY.

Oh I see what you mean. But I think the name was taken from the Boston Tea Party which wasn't a real political party, either. I think most people get that...or at least I thought they did.

ataraxia · Mar 23, 2017

Re: AHCA noose hanging on Ryn's neck.

Moot said:
Ryan and the Freedom Caucus were voted into office to repeal ACA. If they fail they will cease to be relevant.

Yes. And what's funny is that if they DO manage to repeal ACA, they will still cease to be relevant. If the repeal passes and their voters start realizing they themselves were the "Cadillac driving welfare queens" they had railing against all these years, they are going to rip Ryan, and Trump, and the "Freedom" Caucus a new one. Remember, it's only big government tyranny if they think the government is helping someone else.

Dismayed Trump Voters Tweet About What Losing ACA Means To Them – GOPocalypse

VanceMack · Mar 23, 2017

Re: AHCA noose hanging on Ryn's neck.

if he was smart (if) he would say that he is shelving votes for now because it is obvious that the proposed legislation doesnt work for at least 3 groups and they will seek bipartisan support in addressing the needed changes and in the MEANTIME...they will let the ACA be the stellar product everyone knows and loves. Within 6 months, the left may very well be screaming for a new health care plan.
Right now...they just look bad.

chromium · Mar 23, 2017

Re: AHCA noose hanging on Ryn's neck.

haymarket said:
I understand. I really do. And I am not taking issue with you - just their name and the fundamental dishonesty of it.

So do NOT call yourself a PARTY in your own label when you are laboring in the political arena if you are not a PARTY.

It's just about brand recognition really, drastically increasing the chances of one's own grasp for privilege and power by attaching (R) or (D) next to the name on the ballot. Even though it's preposterous on the face of it for so many congressmen from such disparate parts of the country to all agree, until people wake up and realize this and vote for the individual and not the party, they'll keep pretending

chromium · Mar 23, 2017

Re: AHCA noose hanging on Ryn's neck.

ataraxia said:
Yes. And what's funny is that if they DO manage to repeal ACA, they will still cease to be relevant. If the repeal passes and their voters start realizing they themselves were the "Cadillac driving welfare queens" they had railing against all these years, they are going to rip Ryan, and Trump, and the "Freedom" Caucus a new one. Remember, it's only big government tyranny if they think the government is helping someone else.

Dismayed Trump Voters Tweet About What Losing ACA Means To Them – GOPocalypse

I was reading something like 90% are against this and the floodgates of angry calls and demonstrations have taken. Reminds me of SOPA

There's a reason the ACA was debated for months in town halls, summits, and address to congress, while this monstrosity is being rushed. One was an improvement on existing system that voters needed educating on, while the other is undeniably utter **** with no redeeming qualities

Moot · Mar 23, 2017

Re: AHCA noose hanging on Ryn's neck.

ataraxia said:
Yes. And what's funny is that if they DO manage to repeal ACA, they will still cease to be relevant. If the repeal passes and their voters start realizing they themselves were the "Cadillac driving welfare queens" they had railing against all these years, they are going to rip Ryan, and Trump, and their "Freedom" Caucus, a new one. Remember, it's only big government tyranny if they think the government is helping someone else.

Dismayed Trump Voters Tweet About What Losing ACA Means To Them – GOPocalypse

Either way, the GOP is vulnerable. hehehe.

The beauty if the AHCA fails...it will never be introduced again. And for that I suppose we can thank Trump for finally putting an end to using 'ACA repeal' as a political wedge to win elections.

But if it passes...the GOP could and should lose seats in congress for insulting and not listening to their constituents.

chromium · Mar 23, 2017

Re: AHCA noose hanging on Ryn's neck.

Moot said:
Because they're libertarian-right...and that brand of the GOP has been there since the 30's and 40s. IE: Birchers, Von Mises, Rothbard, Skousen, etc.. Beck was pushing their philosphies pretty hard on FoxNews.

Yeah but has it ever infected 20% of the party? I know republicans are proudly anti-intellectual and anti many things except wealth, but it definitely seems like the "destroy government and let the poor starve, but we personally get to keep our high paying tax funded positions and top notch health care" brand of GOP has taken off like never before. And at a time when 50% are living paycheck to paycheck, it seems like madness

To think the poor may get to keep their health care because depriving them of it isn't cutthroat enough for 20% of republicans...

Moot · Mar 23, 2017

Re: AHCA noose hanging on Ryn's neck.

chromium said:
Yeah but has it ever infected 20% of the party? I know republicans are proudly anti-intellectual and anti many things except wealth, but it definitely seems like the "destroy government and let the poor starve, but we personally get to keep our high paying tax funded positions and top notch health care" brand of GOP has taken off like never before. And at a time when 50% are living paycheck to paycheck, it seems like madness

To think the poor may get to keep their health care because depriving them of it isn't cutthroat enough for 20% of republicans...

They infected the GOP in 1964...and contributed to Goldwater's defeat. But they never really went away.

I know...it's good that the 20% are helping defeat the ACHA...but their reasons for doing it are definitely not altruistic, that's for sure.

Vetplus40 · Mar 23, 2017

Re: AHCA noose hanging on Ryn's neck.

chromium said:
Ryan isn't the only one to blame for this, far from it

Really how can you deny Trump's complicity in this? He could've told Ryan to "**** off i'm gonna veto it" and come up with his own plan, but too much work or whatever

Trump's fingerprints are all over the AHCA, but I bet he throws Ryan under the bus if it doesn't pass.

haymarket · Mar 23, 2017

Re: AHCA noose hanging on Ryn's neck.

Moot said:
Oh I see what you mean. But I think the name was taken from the Boston Tea Party which wasn't a real political party, either. I think most people get that...or at least I thought they did.

When a group of people are organized in politics and try to win elections and support candidates and they call themselves a PARTY - they better damn well be a party. That is my objection to the name and always was.

ps - I would LOVE for the Tea part folks to actually have run as the TEA PARTY on the ballot. Then we could have flushed them in one election cycle and be done with them.

chromium · Mar 23, 2017

Re: AHCA noose hanging on Ryn's neck.

Vetplus40 said:
Trump's fingerprints are all over the AHCA, but I bet he throws Ryan under the bus if it doesn't pass.

He'll have a hard time getting anything passed if he does, but he's too used to getting his way all the time not to

chromium · Mar 23, 2017

Re: AHCA noose hanging on Ryn's neck.

haymarket said:
When a group of people are organized in politics and try to win elections and support candidates and they call themselves a PARTY - they better damn well be a party. That is my objection to the name and always was.

ps - I would LOVE for the Tea part folks to actually have run as the TEA PARTY on the ballot. Then we could have flushed them in one election cycle and be done with them.

It's ultimately up to the voters to recognize the difference. And let's just say there are a ton of stupid ass voters

I would take a benevolent dictator over this insanity for sure, especially as the electoral college and redistricting already has me feeling disenfranchised

haymarket · Mar 23, 2017

Re: AHCA noose hanging on Ryn's neck.

chromium said:
It's ultimately up to the voters to recognize the difference. And let's just say there are a ton of stupid ass voters

I would take a benevolent dictator over this insanity for sure, especially as the electoral college and redistricting already has me feeling disenfranchised

I thought the Trump candidacy in 2016 would be just enema to purge the GOP of the crap that had infected it and tried to take it over with the tea party nonsense. Then Trump won. Maybe he will be the enema the party needs but just had to win to do it?

chromium · Mar 23, 2017

Re: AHCA noose hanging on Ryn's neck.

haymarket said:
I thought the Trump candidacy in 2016 would be just enema to purge the GOP of the crap that had infected it and tried to take it over with the tea party nonsense. Then Trump won. Maybe he will be the enema the party needs but just had to win to do it?

You mean like never paying taxes in 20 years? Seems to embody the tea party well. If there is a purge from within, i think it will be directed at the moderates and already Ryan has said he'll without support (whatever that means) from a moderates' campaign for a district Hillary nearly won, because he's voting no on Ryancare. And if there is a purge of the 'no government at all except for us' hardliners, it will be totally coincidental. None were predicting this

haymarket · Mar 23, 2017

Re: AHCA noose hanging on Ryn's neck.

chromium said:
You mean like never paying taxes in 20 years? Seems to embody the tea party well. If there is a purge from within, i think it will be directed at the moderates and already Ryan has said he'll without support (whatever that means) from a moderates' campaign for a district Hillary nearly won, because he's voting no on Ryancare. And if there is a purge of the 'no government at all except for us' hardliners, it will be totally coincidental. None were predicting this

Its going to be interesting. I suspect that one way or the other, they will get their House vote before all is said and done but are DOA in the Senate and will not get that august body to walk that same plank.

chromium · Mar 23, 2017

Re: AHCA noose hanging on Ryn's neck.

haymarket said:
Its going to be interesting. I suspect that one way or the other, they will get their House vote before all is said and done but are DOA in the Senate and will not get that august body to walk that same plank.

yeah, DOA in senate, only needs 3 repubs to refuse and the redistricting isn't so ****ed that they can't easily be voted out for screwing 25 million

ataraxia · Mar 30, 2017

Vetplus40 said:
Thread: AHCA noose hanging around Ryan's neck.

.... AAAAAaaaand, the stool was just kicked out from under his feet....

AHCA noose hanging around Ryan's neck.

Less like the tiger...more like the lion.