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Being a non-liberal in Hollywood is like being in 1930s Germany

Highly debatable.

True...if you're in the military there are limits to such things. If you're a civilian, you just might lose your job but it's not illegal. The KKK can even have marches and rallies.
 
You had written:
Fine example of someone disconnected with reality. Thanks for that.

I wrote:
Have you found Obama's real Kenyan birth certificate and his wiretaps at Trump tower yet?

And you wrote:
Not sure what you're talking about.

You still don't see it, do you? The irony of your not seeing that you are doing 10 times worse everything that you are accusing those evil "leftists" of doing?
 
They tolerate those things within their own ranks. The idea that these are attributes of conservatives is so completely wrong and reflects a level of chauvinism and bigotry that this nation hasn't seen in decades. Tolerance?? Disagree with a conservative and we'll sit down and explain to you why we believe what we believe. Disagree with a liberal they'll tell you why you are wrong. Racism? There's more racism on the left than the right by a margin so wide that it demands a willing ignorance to call conservatives racist. Bigotry? Far more on the left these days than we've seen in decades. Proud? That picture of Nancy Pelosi walking with her giant gavel shows the real heart of pridefulness, the "we won, get over it" mentality of the Dems. for most of Pres. Obama's first term shows it even more. Willful?? Can we point to he riots that the Left carried out?? Stubborn ignorance?? How about unquestioning obedience??

Liberals want to be thought of as "tolerant". But what makes it really difficult is how much intolerance we can tolerate. I think you can see how that really throws us for a logical loop. We're still trying to figure that one out ourselves.
 
You still don't see it, do you? The irony of your not seeing that you are doing 10 times worse everything that you are accusing those evil "leftists" of doing?

Don't know what fantasy you're having but I've not pushed the birther thing. It's dumb to begin with, due to a flawed premise. His mother is a citizen so he could have been born anywhere in the world and it wouldn't matter so the whole thing was stupid.

Keep up with the deflections and strawmen fallacies, though. That oft used strategy of repeating something enough times people will believe it might work out for you.
 
The whiner in this case is Tim Allen. Snowflake.

All Hollywood are snowflakes and they have shown their rampant insanity ever since November 8th. Now we have Chelsea Handler making fun of Trump's family just for having a baby. It doesn't get much lower than that.
 
Liberals want to be thought of as "tolerant". But what makes it really difficult is how much intolerance we can tolerate. I think you can see how that really throws us for a logical loop. We're still trying to figure that one out ourselves.

The problem is that intolerance you are supposedly intolerant of exists only in your mind. The asinine claims from liberals about how intolerant conservatives are is purely a liberal fabrication. We really don't give a rat's ass if you're black, white, homosexual, Muslim or a friggin' space vampire. We care about what kind of person you are. If you're douchebag, we don't like you. If you're criminal, we don't like you. We look at people based on the kind of person they are, not on what identity they claim or have projected on them. Liberals get all tied up in people's identities and think that those identities define them (that's called "bigotry" if you didn't know).
 
1930's Germany? LOLZ.

Exaggerate much, Tim Allen?
It is an exaggeration, you bet, but he does hit on a valid point. Many conservatives have said before that they had to hide their true leaning and it wasn't until after they got to a certain level of fame and popularity that they could "come out", so to speak. Kelsey Grammer and Tom Selleck being a couple examples.
 
IMO, it is a good word/position. But it doesn't fit what people consider "Liberals" today. As evidenced with everything going on, they are far from those definitions. There is absolutely no tolerance for anything said that might in any way support Trump, even if it's to support his policies alone.

I feel like I can't speak my mind anymore, which is one reason I came to these boards, only to realize it's as bad here. And it's not just difference of opinions or different stands being taken, it's the constant "Trumpertors, Trumpaneeze, Cheeto follower, xenophobia, idiots, uneducated, etc....labels that are thrown at you if you dare speak kindly on anything Trump related.

I'm all for reasonable disagreement of views....that makes you think critically, even when you come away with "hey, that's a good point, never thought of it that way". I don't see it happening anywhere.

Well, there is some of what you're talking about here and elsewhere, but it's no different in kind or magnitude that I've seen than the insults etc. thrown at Democrats or Obama supporters for the previous 8 years. We're just divided and a lot of it is tribalism that has little to do with policy. I'm entrenched in deep red territory and have to be VERY careful with whom I talk politics if I don't want to offend someone or get into a heated argument that won't end well. That means most social settings, like dinner parties, clients, even some professionals I work with, although for the most part I can have good debates with them because we respect each other's opinions.

But I've found here that anyone on DP who wants to do so actually can have substantive debates on the issues, or not - lots of flamethrowing too, and I'd be lying if I claimed never to have done the latter. It's part of it and hard not to get caught up in the moment sometimes.
 
While comparisons to Nazi Germany are usually (but not always) stupid, Allen is right -- if you don't toe the hardcore-"progressive" political line in the industry, it's best to keep your mouth shut, or things don't go well for you. (Unless you've already got clout.)

You should have quit while you were ahead - a comparison to Nazi Germany is stupid.

Hell, Tim Allen is making these comments on Jimmy Kimmel live, which is one of the go to shows for Hollywood elites, the studio for that show is on Hollywood Blvd, in LA, and he is right now, as we speak, still the star in a long running sitcom on ABC. So he's been given privileged access to an audience of millions to express his political views, and playing the victim here - this marginally talented guy with a long and successful career in Hollywood that continues today and has made him a very wealthy man is suffering like the Jews and others did in Nazi f'ing Germany?

You have to spectacularly divorced from reality and be one helluva completely tone deaf moron to make that kind of claim. I mean, of course Hollywood is liberal and of course if you're a Trump supporting conservative that's not going to sit well with most of them. Gosh, no liberal has to endure the same kind of Nazi like oppression in their workplace, except anyone in country music, for example (remember the Dixie Chicks?), or ordinary employees in tens of thousands of businesses across the country where people who aren't worth $80 million are afraid to speak up (on liberal or conservative causes) for fear of losing their job and NOT having a truckload of money and a mansion to soothe their hurt. It will come as a shock to NO ONE with a job that bucking the prevailing political views of those at the top in a public way is bad for your career.

Boo f'ing hoo Tim. We're feeling your oppression as you cash your latest check from the Nazi's in Hollywood that are STILL employing you and making you a fabulously wealthy man.
 
You should have quit while you were ahead - a comparison to Nazi Germany is stupid.

:shrug: The rest of it is entirely true, whether or not you wish to believe it. So no, I shouldn't have.
 
:shrug: The rest of it is entirely true, whether or not you wish to believe it. So no, I shouldn't have.

The 'rest of it' is just what amounts to office politics for the proles in this country. Yes, if you want to give yourself the best chance to succeed at a company, it's bad form and inadvisable to publicly get crossways with the guys writing checks on ANY issue important to them, and politics is one of those issues. Do you think it's fundamentally different in 10s of thousands of businesses all over the country? What do you think happens to, e.g., outed gays who might bring their gay partner to an office party here in my area? Do you think they get the same chances as a good Christian with a wife and kids who goes to church with the boss every Sunday? What's the difference between that and Tim Allen's horrible Nazi-like oppression in Hollywood, as he makes $235k/week in Hollywood, and appears on Hollywood talk shows so he can whinge about that oppression by Hollywood?

Bottom line is you might need to read a bit of history of Nazi Germany. Maybe you can start here and point out the parallels between what Tim Allen is suffering through - poor guy - and the life of a Jew in Nazi Germany:

https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005686

Nazi Germany 1933-1939: Early Stages of Persecution - My Jewish Learning
 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...eing-in-1930s-germany/?utm_term=.ef65509c3925

Hollywood has been accused of letting its old McCarthyism shame creep back into the 21st century: driving conservatives into hiding and professional exile, like it once blacklisted communists.
“You gotta be real careful around here,” actor Tim Allen said on “Jimmy Kimmel Live,” after stuttering through a confession that he attended President Trump’s inauguration. “You get beat up if you don’t believe what everybody else believes. This is like ’30s Germany.”



Liberal as defined by Oxford dictionary

1 Willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas.

1.1 Favourable to or respectful of individual rights and freedoms.

1.2 (in a political context) favouring individual liberty, free trade, and moderate political and social reform.
‘a liberal democratic state’


It seems the exact opposite of what "Liberal" meant years ago. Why the change? It didn't suddenly happen with the election of Trump. It's been going on for a while, which has slowly pushed me out of being defined as a Liberal.

I've never met a Liberal from upstate NY.
 
The 'rest of it' is just what amounts to office politics for the proles in this country. Yes, if you want to give yourself the best chance to succeed at a company, it's bad form and inadvisable to publicly get crossways with the guys writing checks on ANY issue important to them, and politics is one of those issues. Do you think it's fundamentally different in 10s of thousands of businesses all over the country? What do you think happens to, e.g., outed gays who might bring their gay partner to an office party here in my area? Do you think they get the same chances as a good Christian with a wife and kids who goes to church with the boss every Sunday? What's the difference between that and Tim Allen's horrible Nazi-like oppression in Hollywood, as he makes $235k/week in Hollywood, and appears on Hollywood talk shows so he can whinge about that oppression by Hollywood?

Calm yourself. You are far too agitated, for reasons which are not at all clear, to discuss this rationally.

As such:

Bottom line is you might need to read a bit of history of Nazi Germany. Maybe you can start here and point out the parallels between what Tim Allen is suffering through - poor guy - and the life of a Jew in Nazi Germany:

https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005686

Nazi Germany 1933-1939: Early Stages of Persecution - My Jewish Learning

You entirely forgot that the very first thing I said was that comparisons to Nazi Germany are (almost always) stupid.

Take a breather, dude. Find a beach.
 
The problem is that intolerance you are supposedly intolerant of exists only in your mind. The asinine claims from liberals about how intolerant conservatives are is purely a liberal fabrication. We really don't give a rat's ass if you're black, white, homosexual, Muslim or a friggin' space vampire.
Oh come on. Please. You wouldn't kid a kid, would you? Or you are just gaslighting? We just fought you tooth and nail to get some civil rights for gays. And you just finished cheering for a presidential candidate pushing for a "Muslim ban". Come on now!


"It seems to me that the regulative idea that we – we wet liberals, we heirs of the Enlightenment, we Socratists – most frequently use to criticize the conduct of various conversational partners is that of ‘needing education in order to outgrow their primitive fear, hatreds, and superstitions’. This is the concept the victorious Allied armies used when they set about re-educating the citizens of occupied Germany and Japan. It is also the one which was used by American schoolteachers who had read Dewey and were concerned to get students to think ‘scientifically’ and ‘rationally’ about such matters as the origin of the species and sexual behavior. It is a concept which I, like most Americans who teach humanities or social science in colleges and universities, invoke when we try to arrange things so that students who enter as bigoted, homophobic, religious fundamentalists will leave college with views more like our own.

[…] The fundamentalist parents of our fundamentalist students think that the entire ‘American liberal establishment’ is engaged in a conspiracy...
The parents have a point. Their point is that we liberal teachers no more feel in a symmetrical communication situation when we talk with bigots than do kindergarten teachers talking with their students. […] When we American college teachers encounter religious fundamentalists, we do not consider the possibility of reformulating our own practices of justification so as to give more weight to the authority of the Christian scriptures. Instead, we do our best to convince these students of the benefits of secularization. We assign first-person accounts of growing up homosexual to our homophobic students for the same reasons that German schoolteachers in the postwar period assigned The Diary of Anne Frank. The racist or fundamentalist parents of our students[…] will protest that these books are being jammed down their children’s throats. I cannot see how to reply to their charges without saying something like “There are credentials for admission to our democratic society […]. You have to be educated in order to be … a participant in our conversation … So we are going to go right on trying to discredit you in the eyes of your children, trying to strip your fundamentalist religious community of dignity, trying to make your views seem silly rather than discussable. We are not so inclusivist as to tolerate intolerance such as yours.”
-Richard Rorty, late professor emeritus of philosophy and humanities at Stanford, and former chair of the American Philosophical Association
 
Calm yourself. You are far too agitated, for reasons which are not at all clear, to discuss this rationally.

As such:

You entirely forgot that the very first thing I said was that comparisons to Nazi Germany are (almost always) stupid.

Take a breather, dude. Find a beach.

Yes, you said they are almost always stupid, but that Tim "Allen is right" to use the analogy. He's only 'right' if oppression means "slight inconvenience on your way to a multi-million payday from your oppressors."

And I'm basically having fun but I do get awfully tired of people who suffer 1/1,000th of the actual hardships faced by 10s of millions of Americans in their daily lives whining about the awful oppression they're facing because they can't express their opinions without making someone mad. They guy makes $235,000 a week IN HOLLYWOOD. It takes a special kind of privileged and self entitled asshole to claim that at the same time Hollywood is oppressing his right to express his political opinions.
 
Yes, you said they are almost always stupid, but that Tim "Allen is right" to use the analogy.

No, I didn't. Learn to read. Here's what I said:

While comparisons to Nazi Germany are usually (but not always) stupid, Allen is right -- if you don't toe the hardcore-"progressive" political line in the industry, it's best to keep your mouth shut, or things don't go well for you. (Unless you've already got clout.)

You misread me. You. I didn't misstate it. You misread it.

And I'm basically having fun

If having your knickers in a bunch is "fun" for you, I guess.

but I do get awfully tired of people who suffer 1/1,000th of the actual hardships faced by 10s of millions of Americans in their daily lives whining about the awful oppression they're facing because they can't express their opinions without making someone mad. They guy makes $235,000 a week IN HOLLYWOOD. It takes a special kind of privileged and self entitled asshole to claim that at the same time Hollywood is oppressing his right to express his political opinions.

Sure, for Allen, who's already made it. How about all those people you've never heard of, way down below the line, whose jobs you couldn't even name, let alone say what they do, who don't make gobs of money, but may be shunned and unable to work because they hold unpopular views? Do you think that everyone who works on a set, or in the industry, is rich?

Didn't even occur to you, did it? :roll:

Aren't political blacklists bad? Especially Hollywood political blacklists? I'm seem to recall some ado about that.
 
No, I didn't. Learn to read. Here's what I said:

You misread me. You. I didn't misstate it. You misread it.

Sheesh, "While X is usually wrong, in this case X 'is right'" is what you said. The "while" is relevant to the conclusion.

Sure, for Allen, who's already made it. How about all those people you've never heard of, way down below the line, whose jobs you couldn't even name, let alone say what they do, who don't make gobs of money, but may be shunned and unable to work because they hold unpopular views? Do you think that everyone who works on a set, or in the industry, is rich?

I addressed that already but much broader than just Hollywood - you ignored it before so I'll repeat myself:

"The 'rest of it' is just what amounts to office politics for the proles in this country. Yes, if you want to give yourself the best chance to succeed at a company, it's bad form and inadvisable to publicly get crossways with the guys writing checks on ANY issue important to them, and politics is one of those issues. Do you think it's fundamentally different in 10s of thousands of businesses all over the country? What do you think happens to, e.g., outed gays who might bring their gay partner to an office party here in my area? Do you think they get the same chances as a good Christian with a wife and kids who goes to church with the boss every Sunday? What's the difference between that and Tim Allen's horrible Nazi-like oppression in Hollywood, as he makes $235k/week in Hollywood, and appears on Hollywood talk shows so he can whinge about that oppression by Hollywood? "

Didn't even occur to you, did it? :roll:

If by not occurring to me you mean explicitly addressed low level grunts all across this country, then that's right.

Aren't political blacklists bad? Especially Hollywood political blacklists? I'm seem to recall some ado about that.

Why should I care more about Hollywood actors than some gay person in a small accounting firm in rural Alabama?
 
Sheesh, "While X is usually wrong, in this case X 'is right'" is what you said. The "while" is relevant to the conclusion.

:shrug: I guess you're going to have to live with your reading impediment. That isn't what I said, and you can't even figure it out after it was diagrammed for you.


I addressed that already but much broader than just Hollywood - you ignored it before so I'll repeat myself:

"The 'rest of it' is just what amounts to office politics for the proles in this country. Yes, if you want to give yourself the best chance to succeed at a company, it's bad form and inadvisable to publicly get crossways with the guys writing checks on ANY issue important to them, and politics is one of those issues. Do you think it's fundamentally different in 10s of thousands of businesses all over the country? What do you think happens to, e.g., outed gays who might bring their gay partner to an office party here in my area? Do you think they get the same chances as a good Christian with a wife and kids who goes to church with the boss every Sunday? What's the difference between that and Tim Allen's horrible Nazi-like oppression in Hollywood, as he makes $235k/week in Hollywood, and appears on Hollywood talk shows so he can whinge about that oppression by Hollywood? "

Yes, I saw these histrionics the first time, which amount to nothing more than Whataboutism. "Whataboutthishuhuhuhuh?????"

Similar things which may happen in other industries don't make the point invalid. What YOU'D rather talk about it irrelevant. Start a new topic.


If by not occurring to me you mean explicitly addressed low level grunts all across this country, then that's right.

Of course it didn't. You think it's only about highly-paid actors:


Why should I care more about Hollywood actors than some gay person in a small accounting firm in rural Alabama?

And you won't consider anything else, or anyONE else, even after it's pointed out to you.

As such, you render discussing this with you entirely pointless. :roll: Oh, well; I tried. Bye, now.
 
:shrug: I guess you're going to have to live with your reading impediment. That isn't what I said, and you can't even figure it out after it was diagrammed for you.

Not a whole lot of diagramming needed - "While comparisons to Nazi Germany are usually (but not always) stupid, Allen is right - ......"

Yes, I saw these histrionics the first time, which amount to nothing more than Whataboutism. "Whataboutthishuhuhuhuh?????"

No the response was to recognize the reality that the same kind of Nazi-like oppression Allen is whining about is otherwise known as office politics by the rest of the country, and what ordinary people deal with on a daily basis without comparing their fate to Jews in Nazi Germany. Water is wet and you don't get crossways with the guy with the checkbook if you want to advance your career. If the boss is head of the local GOP, every worker in America recognizes that wearing your "I'm with HILLARY!" button to meet with the boss could be career limiting.

Similar things which may happen in other industries don't make the point invalid. What YOU'D rather talk about it irrelevant. Start a new topic.

The invalid point is that the kind of oppression of Tim Allen in Hollywood, described on a Hollywood based talk show, by the same Hollywood that pays him $4.2 million per year is very similar to how the Jews were treated in Nazi Germany in the 1930s.

Of course it didn't. You think it's only about highly-paid actors:

And you won't consider anything else, or anyONE else, even after it's pointed out to you.

I did consider others - very explicitly. What it comes down to is incredibly rich white man making $4 million per year from his oppressors is oppressed like the Jews in Germany because he can't express his support for Trump without being criticized about it. Well boo f'ing hoo. Put yourself in the shoes of a gay black woman in East Tennessee or lower Alabama and see how ACTUAL discrimination feels.
 
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