• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Conservatives, why aren't you libertarian?

Skeptic Bob

Skeptic Bob

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 6, 2014
Messages
16,626
Reaction score
19,488
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
This is a question for those of you who consider yourselves "conservative". Why are you conservative instead of libertarian? What aspects of libertarianism do you most disagree with?

For the purpose of this thread I am referring to the lowercase, common vernacular, modern American use of the word "libertarian". Not the more global original definition. Not the political party and not oddball hyphenated leans like myself. ;)
 
Skeptic Bob said:
This is a question for those of you who consider yourselves "conservative". Why are you conservative instead of libertarian? What aspects of libertarianism do you most disagree with?

For the purpose of this thread I am referring to the lowercase, common vernacular, modern American use of the word "libertarian". Not the more global original definition. Not the political party and not oddball hyphenated leans like myself. ;)
Click to expand...

Who is conservative and not libertarian?
 
Skeptic Bob said:
This is a question for those of you who consider yourselves "conservative". Why are you conservative instead of libertarian? What aspects of libertarianism do you most disagree with?

For the purpose of this thread I am referring to the lowercase, common vernacular, modern American use of the word "libertarian". Not the more global original definition. Not the political party and not oddball hyphenated leans like myself. ;)
Click to expand...

One difference may be one's stance on elective abortion.
 
joG said:
Who is conservative and not libertarian?
Click to expand...

Those that are:

  • Anti-abortion
  • Anti-SSM
  • Anti-immigration
  • Economically protectionist
  • Against legalising dope
  • Pro-blasphemy laws

...just for starters.
 
I don't think pro-life conflicts with libertarianism as part of the premises is the NAP, and abortion clearly does harm to the life of the unborn child.
 
I hesitate to use any labels but I support conservatives in so far as fiscal conservatism and environmental conservatism and legal conservatism. Conservatives seem to have, oddly, picked up the standard of classical liberalism (such as freedom of speech) with concerns about the rights of individuals which "liberals" discarded on their way to progressivism and/or fascism. I suspect that I would disagree with libertarians in that I believe that there is a strong role for government in providing for the greatest good for the greatest numbers for the longest period of time so I support government support of education to educate the citizens and help make them productive, health to keep them productive, good infrastructure to improve commerce, etc. And I believe that the richer countries have a role in assisting less developed countries, believing that we all benefit when more people enter into middle class and above. Do not believe that government should waste resources on those who seem unable or unwilling to even try to be productive.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
This is a question for those of you who consider yourselves "conservative". Why are you conservative instead of libertarian? What aspects of libertarianism do you most disagree with?

For the purpose of this thread I am referring to the lowercase, common vernacular, modern American use of the word "libertarian". Not the more global original definition. Not the political party and not oddball hyphenated leans like myself. ;)
Click to expand...

I can agree with parts of the conservative hive mind way more than I can with the libertarian Hive Mind. This is the number one reason for me sticking with the party rather than going my own way. I know as soon as I don't I will be linked to libertarians and I don't want to be. I am not a libertarian!!!! According to many Trumpkins on this site, I am hardly a conservative. Even though liberals constantly accuse me of being some sort of corporate lobbyist. (I work in IT) I am in every sense of the word a Nixonian Republican, a George W. Bush fan, a Blue Dog Democrat. Part of the establishment... I'm also more of a policy wonk, and not an activist. I am a traditionalist who favors country over party, especially in this new administration. Someone who upholds the ideals of the fairness doctrine and fights against radical movements that I see as dangerous to this country. No political ideology has been spared by this.

Libertarians are part of that agenda, but as well as the following groups, as my profile has stated ever since I joined this site:

Trumpkins, Paulbots, Libertarians, Conspiracy Theorists, Privacy Activists, Global Warming Eco Freaks, People who act like Vegan is a religion, The Tea Party, Constitutionalists, Atheism Crusaders,political grammar nazis (who cares about the difference between big L and little l.) and people who rally against old laws that are already implemented like Roe V Wade, Citizens United, and the legality of the Supreme Court.
Click to expand...
So see, the sum of your post really agitates me. Not just because it assumes that conservatives or Republicans would fall for inane libertarian ideas. Their stated goals and ideals don't make much sense and back when they mattered more, they couldn't even agree on what some of those were! I don't like how they hijacked the Republican Platform instead of trying to make a third party (which is what half of their complaining boils down to). Their attitudes are some of the worst condescending political voices I have ever encountered online. And they act like spoiled children when they don't get their way. "You must believe in this conspiracy theory or you are not one of us!!!!" Republicans have never said that, we always welcomed people with different views into the big tent.

What's the point of being a part of a small but disorganized group of political outcasts that don't share my worldview or optimistic outlook? Now I seem to be making fun of myself here, since there are hardly any political moderates anymore, yes even those that say that they are, suspect. I can name maybe 7-9 people on this whole site who are pretty moderate in their tone and stances. Tone is a big part of it, too. I can like some of Trump's policies (as he is as close to Libertarian President as one could get), but not in the way, or manner he is doing it! It's being dishonest and misleading. The various national libertarian entities or public figures are either downright crazy, corrupt w/ties to Russia, or just too small to matter. As an establishment type it's not worth it to give up something so big for something so small that says that they are better yet can't even agree on why, and can't win any elections with their official title!
 
Last edited:
Skeptic Bob said:
This is a question for those of you who consider yourselves "conservative". Why are you conservative instead of libertarian? What aspects of libertarianism do you most disagree with?

For the purpose of this thread I am referring to the lowercase, common vernacular, modern American use of the word "libertarian". Not the more global original definition. Not the political party and not oddball hyphenated leans like myself. ;)
Click to expand...

Drugs, Isolationist policies of stick head in sand and pretend that's a valid foreign policy plan...
 
Andalublue said:
Perhaps you can tell us how blasphemy laws do not undermine individual freedom of expression.
Click to expand...

Which side of the political spectrum has strict speech codes where they have control? And pray tell, please show this push for blasphemy laws from Conservatives, names and links please.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
This is a question for those of you who consider yourselves "conservative". Why are you conservative instead of libertarian? What aspects of libertarianism do you most disagree with?

For the purpose of this thread I am referring to the lowercase, common vernacular, modern American use of the word "libertarian". Not the more global original definition. Not the political party and not oddball hyphenated leans like myself. ;)
Click to expand...

I am libertarian (small "L") or classical liberal close to the ideology of the Founders. I choose that label for my personal ideology because I need more flexibility that the average conservative will allow me on matters such as abortion or parental rights, adoption, et al but also allow for personal preferences when it comes to limitations on certain speech, dress codes, exercise of religion, etc. that the Libertarians (capital L) would allow. I would have fit right in with the classical liberals of the Founders' time.
 
Andalublue said:
[*]Anti-abortion
[*]Anti-SSM
[*]Anti-immigration
[*]Economically protectionist
[*]Against legalising dope
[*]Pro-blasphemy laws
[*]
[/LIST]

...just for starters.
Click to expand...

Disagree on the bolded.

Abortion....depends ENTIRELY on the reasoning and logic behind their opposition. Let me ask you, are child protection laws incompatible with libertarian thinking.

SSM...again, disagree. It's entirely possible to be ANTI SSM and be libertarian in thinking. To do so, you'd need to believe that marriage, as a whole, doesn't belong in the hands of the federal government. Thus you would be against the expansion of it, and likely in favor of an abolishment of it, which can still be viewed as being anti SSM.

immigration - libertarian belief does not require one to be an abject open boarder mentality. Establishing a national boarder and overseeing nationalization processes are legitimate actions of a limited federal government. This category is FAR to broad to simply label in such a large fashion.
 
matchlight said:
It is clear to me that author is not arguing FOR blasphemy laws, but rather AGAINST them.
Click to expand...
"Still, in principle, I support the idea of a blasphemy law in the Russian context." Clearly, not opposed to blasphemy laws in principle.
 
Andalublue said:
"Still, in principle, I support the idea of a blasphemy law in the Russian context." Clearly, not opposed to blasphemy laws in principle.
Click to expand...

I don't think that single quotation reflects the thrust of the article at all. The author obviously dislikes efforts by proponents of the homosexual agenda, for example, to use government to prevent churches from discriminating against homosexuals in any way. He also speaks about how so-called liberals have a secular religion, in which, although they would like to deny it, "hate speech" laws are their anti-blasphemy laws.
 
AlbqOwl said:
I am libertarian (small "L") or classical liberal close to the ideology of the Founders. I choose that label for my personal ideology because I need more flexibility that the average conservative will allow me on matters such as abortion or parental rights, adoption, et al but also allow for personal preferences when it comes to limitations on certain speech, dress codes, exercise of religion, etc. that the Libertarians (capital L) would allow. I would have fit right in with the classical liberals of the Founders' time.
Click to expand...

I listed myself as Libertarian because that was the closest thing to Classical Liberal. It would be nice if they added Classical Liberal to the list to choose from.
 
Fishking said:
I don't think pro-life conflicts with libertarianism as part of the premises is the NAP, and abortion clearly does harm to the life of the unborn child.
Click to expand...

Yup. Abortion is one of those issues that are not so easy to determine when it comes to the NAP.
 
Conservatives typically desire to enslave all others & they typically hate liberty unless it is liberty for themselves .........
 
Skeptic Bob said:
This is a question for those of you who consider yourselves "conservative". Why are you conservative instead of libertarian? What aspects of libertarianism do you most disagree with?

For the purpose of this thread I am referring to the lowercase, common vernacular, modern American use of the word "libertarian". Not the more global original definition. Not the political party and not oddball hyphenated leans like myself. ;)
Click to expand...

I used to consider myself Conservative but as the Republican party began to move more to Authoritarian rather than small government, I started to trend to Libertarian. The more I read though it seems like I am more of a Classical Liberal.
 
Nap said:
I listed myself as Libertarian because that was the closest thing to Classical Liberal. It would be nice if they added Classical Liberal to the list to choose from.
Click to expand...

I agree. I do not wish to associate myself with the Libertarian party which is what the capital L says to me, so I am stuck with "other". If they would give us a libertarian (little "L") or classical liberal, I would use that designation.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
This is a question for those of you who consider yourselves "conservative". Why are you conservative instead of libertarian? What aspects of libertarianism do you most disagree with?

For the purpose of this thread I am referring to the lowercase, common vernacular, modern American use of the word "libertarian". Not the more global original definition. Not the political party and not oddball hyphenated leans like myself. ;)
Click to expand...

Most folks that identify as conservatives are more authoritarian than folks that identify as libertarians. A modern day conservative identifies with anti-abortion, BIG government militarism and anti-gay marriage. Libertarians, (small l), identify with minding one's own business as long as nobody's rights to life, liberty and property are being violated and enough military to protect and defend America and not the entire world.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom