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Kucinich voices support for Trump wire tapping claim.

Fishking

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...because it happened to him. Point in order, I've seen a not insignificant number of people on the left who have said they would have voted for Kucinich over Hillary so he's not some "far-right wacko".



So what we have is an instance where it has happened, so it's not impossible. We also know that the same type of thing happened to at least one person that was part of the Trump team (i.e. Flynn).

Add this in with all the other leaks that have come out and it seems that there is a growing case that there was some kind of surveillance happening.
 
Kucinich was considered pretty far left when he was relevant. The left had plenty of opportunity to nominate him....but didn't.

I remember back during the 2004 primaries when Moveon.org held a vote for its membership to nominate the candidate they most wanted the organization to support...and out of eight or nine candidates, Kucinich won by a wide margin. But that wasn't who the leaders of MoveOn wanted to win so they ignored the vote and threw their support behind Kerry. I think they might've lost a lot of progressive members over that.
 
Kucinich was considered pretty far left when he was relevant. The left had plenty of opportunity to nominate him....but didn't.

I remember back during the 2004 primaries when Moveon.org held a vote for its membership to nominate the candidate they most wanted the organization to support...and out of eight or nine candidates, Kucinich won by a wide margin. But that wasn't who the leaders of MoveOn wanted to win so they ignored the vote and threw their support behind Kerry. I think they might've lost a lot of progressive members over that.

Kucinich is one of my favorite politicians. He was the one who fought for the public option in the ACA, and Joe Lieberman and Obama went on a crusade against him. Ironically, if they would've listened to him they might not of lost to Donny the Welcher Trump. The public option would've neutralized a lot of Republican talking points about the ACA, securing Democratic votes. Unfortunately, the Democrats carry water for the insurance companies and big pharma too. So, Kucinich is labeled as unviable. When that's simply not true. He's unviable to Democratic donors, but his positions are massively popular with the people and would win elections.
 
Kucinich is one of my favorite politicians. He was the one who fought for the public option in the ACA, and Joe Lieberman and Obama went on a crusade against him. Ironically, if they would've listened to him they might not of lost to Donny the Welcher Trump. The public option would've neutralized a lot of Republican talking points about the ACA, securing Democratic votes. Unfortunately, the Democrats carry water for the insurance companies and big pharma too. So, Kucinich is labeled as unviable. When that's simply not true. He's unviable to Democratic donors, but his positions are massively popular with the people and would win elections.

I liked him once, too.

I forget, was Kucinich willing to compromise on the public option to get a health insurance bill passed? If not, then perhaps his hard-line is why he became nonviable.
 
I liked him once, too.

I forget, was Kucinich willing to compromise on the public option to get a health insurance bill passed? If not, then perhaps his hard-line is why he became nonviable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Dennis_Kucinich

On November 7, 2009, Kucinich voted with 38 other Democrats (mostly Blue Dogs) and 176 Republicans against the Affordable Healthcare for America Act because he believed the bill "incentivizes the perpetuation, indeed the strengthening, of the for-profit health insurance industry, the very source of the problem."[36] In his press release for why he voted as he had, Kucinich continues, "In H.R. 3962, the government is requiring at least 21 million Americans to buy private health insurance from the very industry that causes costs to be so high, which will result in at least $70 billion in new annual revenue, much of which is coming from taxpayers. This inevitably will lead to even more costs, more subsidies, and higher profits for insurance companies — a bailout under a blue cross.... The 'robust public option' which would have offered a modicum of competition to a monopolistic industry was whittled down from an initial potential enrollment of 129 million Americans to 6 million. An amendment which would have protected the rights of states to pursue single-payer health care was stripped from the bill at the request of the Administration.... America will someday come to recognize the broad social and economic benefits of a not-for-profit, single-payer health care system, which is good for the American people and good for America’s businesses, with of course the notable exceptions being insurance and pharmaceuticals.”[36] Unlike many, if not all, of his fellow democrats who voted against the bill, Kucinich has not been the target of scorn from liberal media outlets, but has instead been well received as being a man of conviction to his goal of a single-payer system.[37] When the bill comes out of conference committee, Kucinich will have the opportunity to vote for final passage of the bill, or vote 'no' as he previously had. The bill has been differed from conference committee due to a perceived time constraint, so the House and Senate are now playing political ping-pong to create the final bill.[38] However, he changed his vote to a yes in March 2010.[39]
 
Kucinich was considered pretty far left when he was relevant. The left had plenty of opportunity to nominate him....but didn't.

I remember back during the 2004 primaries when Moveon.org held a vote for its membership to nominate the candidate they most wanted the organization to support...and out of eight or nine candidates, Kucinich won by a wide margin. But that wasn't who the leaders of MoveOn wanted to win so they ignored the vote and threw their support behind Kerry. I think they might've lost a lot of progressive members over that.

I was just pointing out that this voice of support wasn't coming from some right-winger, to waylay the auto-dismiss reaction that happens. He says this type of thing definitely is a possibility.
 

Yeah, that's what I thought. Kucinich's constituents wanted the ACA....but he didn't...and that's why he lost his seat. But he was still very popular with far left progressives.

Unfortunately, Kucinich got very bitter towards Obama...and by the looks of it, he still is. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he voted for Trump just to spite Obama. So I'd take anything he says about Obama with a grain of salt.
 
I was just pointing out that this voice of support wasn't coming from some right-winger, to waylay the auto-dismiss reaction that happens. He says this type of thing definitely is a possibility.

Kucinich said that in 2015, the Washington Times let him hear a tape of a 2011 conversation that he had with a foreign leader.

Most likely it was the foreign leader that was being tapped and any call he made to Kuchnich would've been caught on tape, too. And too, without knowing who did the wiretap...who is to say it wasn't the Russians? Anyway, I highly doubt that Kuchnich was wiretapped unless he was talking to a foreign leader who was.

So where did the WT get the tape...four years after the fact?
 
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Kucinich said that in 2015, the Washington Times let him hear a tape of a 2011 conversation that he had with a foreign leader.

Most likely it was the foreign leader that was being tapped and any call he made to Kuchnich would've been caught on tape, too. And too, without knowing who did the wiretap...who is to say it wasn't the Russians? Anyway, I highly doubt that Kuchnich was wiretapped unless he was talking to a foreign leader who was.

So where did the WT get the tape...four years after the fact?

It doesn't matter if they were tapping that guy. They are supposed to delete it when they find out that the person on the other side is a U.S. citizen, or at least sanitize everything about him out. The only thing keeping that from happening is if there is implication of some wrongdoing on the part of Kucinich.

That the WT had the recording shows that not only was his part not sanitized out but then it was leaked. Further, if it wasn't from our people then they could just say so to his FOIA request, instead of stonewalling him.
 
It doesn't matter if they were tapping that guy. They are supposed to delete it when they find out that the person on the other side is a U.S. citizen, or at least sanitize everything about him out. The only thing keeping that from happening is if there is implication of some wrongdoing on the part of Kucinich.

That the WT had the recording shows that not only was his part not sanitized out but then it was leaked. Further, if it wasn't from our people then they could just say so to his FOIA request, instead of stonewalling him.

What law or rule says they were supposed to delete or sanitize it? Because the NSA just built a massive compound in Utah to store all their gathered data....so clearly, they're not deleting it.

So who leaked the tape and why did they leak it to the WT...instead of the NYT? Inquiring minds want to know.
 
...because it happened to him. Point in order, I've seen a not insignificant number of people on the left who have said they would have voted for Kucinich over Hillary so he's not some "far-right wacko".



So what we have is an instance where it has happened, so it's not impossible. We also know that the same type of thing happened to at least one person that was part of the Trump team (i.e. Flynn).

Add this in with all the other leaks that have come out and it seems that there is a growing case that there was some kind of surveillance happening.


Nobody doubts that it's possible. What people want is the evidence that Trump had in his hands when he said Obama did it. Unless Kucinich has been given the evidence, this isn't relevant and doesn't help Trump answer the repeated, and subsequently ignored, demands for the proof.
 
I was just pointing out that this voice of support wasn't coming from some right-winger, to waylay the auto-dismiss reaction that happens. He says this type of thing definitely is a possibility.

The debate(s) are not about whether or not it is possible in some existential sense for Trump to be wiretapped. Don't try to move the goalpost over there. That's silly.



The debate(s) surround Trump's repeated claims that Obama wire-tapped him. (Twice in quotes, twice without quotes, if that matters to people). The fact that a thing is possible in some general sense is no reason to assert that a specific person in fact did that specific thing to another specific person, at a specific time.

That remains true regardless of how many people we can videotape saying that it is possible for the government to wiretap people. (We kind of already knew that anyway).




If I really must waste time on an analogy, here goes.

Murder is possible.

That does not provide me with a basis to assert that bob murdered joe.

That remains true no matter how many prosecutors we have on tape explaining that it is possible to murder a person.
 
Wasnt Kucenich also anally probed by aliens? maybe not the best source...
 
The debate(s) are not about whether or not it is possible in some existential sense for Trump to be wiretapped. Don't try to move the goalpost over there. That's silly.

The debate(s) surround Trump's repeated claims that Obama wire-tapped him. (Twice in quotes, twice without quotes, if that matters to people). The fact that a thing is possible in some general sense is no reason to assert that a specific person in fact did that specific thing to another specific person, at a specific time.

That remains true regardless of how many people we can videotape saying that it is possible for the government to wiretap people. (We kind of already knew that anyway).

If I really must waste time on an analogy, here goes.

Murder is possible.

That does not provide me with a basis to assert that bob murdered joe.

That remains true no matter how many prosecutors we have on tape explaining that it is possible to murder a person.

And I also pointed out that it's obvious that people that were part of his campaign were being surveilled. We already have evidence of that. How many members of his team need to be under surveillance before it counts?
 
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