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We are not a Christian nation, and not for the reason you think!

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independentusa

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Many people in this country say and think we are a Christian Nation. Others say we aren't because the First Amendment says we can't be. Both are wrong. We aren't a Christian nation because in no way does this country follow the dictates of Jesus Christ. Love your neghbor as yourself, NOT. Help the poor, Not. Do not kill, Not. Almost everything that we are doing presently as a nation violates the dictates of Christ. Just look at the laws that now allow you to kill someone if you just think they are going to harm you. Not exactly turning the other cheek. Cutting spending that helps the poor in this country so that the GOP can cut taxes which will mostly go the the wealthiest of Americans. I sure we can find that somewhere in Christ's teachings. I could go on and on, but you all know what I am talking about. So the next time someone tells you that we are a Christian nation, you can just laugh in their face or agree with them if you can fool yourself into believing that it is true.
 
independentusa said:
Many people in this country say and think we are a Christian Nation. Others say we aren't because the First Amendment says we can't be. Both are wrong. We aren't a Christian nation because in no way does this country follow the dictates of Jesus Christ. Love your neghbor as yourself, NOT. Help the poor, Not. Do not kill, Not. Almost everything that we are doing presently as a nation violates the dictates of Christ. Just look at the laws that now allow you to kill someone if you just think they are going to harm you. Not exactly turning the other cheek. Cutting spending that helps the poor in this country so that the GOP can cut taxes which will mostly go the the wealthiest of Americans. I sure we can find that somewhere in Christ's teachings. I could go on and on, but you all know what I am talking about. So the next time someone tells you that we are a Christian nation, you can just laugh in their face or agree with them if you can fool yourself into believing that it is true.
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We are a "Christian nation" because the majority of our citizens currently identify as a member one or another Christian "sect."

Much like Muslim nations have a majority of citizens who identify as either Sunni or Shia sects of Islam.

That does not make our nation a Theocracy, i.e. religiously governed like Vatican City, or perhaps Iran (although it has a constitutional government the Ayatollah can over-rule it).

As for following the dictates of Jesus Christ?

Few people can truly say they do so, and even then it would be a debate as to the truth of such assertions based on individual interpretations of what does and doe not constitute "following His dictates" means.
 
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independentusa said:
Many people in this country say and think we are a Christian Nation. Others say we aren't because the First Amendment says we can't be. Both are wrong. We aren't a Christian nation because in no way does this country follow the dictates of Jesus Christ. Love your neghbor as yourself, NOT. Help the poor, Not. Do not kill, Not. Almost everything that we are doing presently as a nation violates the dictates of Christ. Just look at the laws that now allow you to kill someone if you just think they are going to harm you. Not exactly turning the other cheek. Cutting spending that helps the poor in this country so that the GOP can cut taxes which will mostly go the the wealthiest of Americans. I sure we can find that somewhere in Christ's teachings. I could go on and on, but you all know what I am talking about. So the next time someone tells you that we are a Christian nation, you can just laugh in their face or agree with them if you can fool yourself into believing that it is true.
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The teachings of Jesus Christ aren't a guide for how a government should run a country. It's about what individual people should do.
 
independentusa said:
Many people in this country say and think we are a Christian Nation. Others say we aren't because the First Amendment says we can't be. Both are wrong. We aren't a Christian nation because in no way does this country follow the dictates of Jesus Christ. Love your neghbor as yourself, NOT. Help the poor, Not. Do not kill, Not. Almost everything that we are doing presently as a nation violates the dictates of Christ. Just look at the laws that now allow you to kill someone if you just think they are going to harm you. Not exactly turning the other cheek. Cutting spending that helps the poor in this country so that the GOP can cut taxes which will mostly go the the wealthiest of Americans. I sure we can find that somewhere in Christ's teachings. I could go on and on, but you all know what I am talking about. So the next time someone tells you that we are a Christian nation, you can just laugh in their face or agree with them if you can fool yourself into believing that it is true.
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Are YOU helping the poor? Do YOU love your neighbor? Do YOU kill? That is all that matters in Christianity. There isn't a collective soul or a collective free ride to the Pearly Gates. You get there through your own merit, your own behavior and your own faith. That you vote in socialist to political power wont help you.
 
independentusa said:
Many people in this country say and think we are a Christian Nation. Others say we aren't because the First Amendment says we can't be. Both are wrong. We aren't a Christian nation because in no way does this country follow the dictates of Jesus Christ. Love your neghbor as yourself, NOT. Help the poor, Not. Do not kill, Not. Almost everything that we are doing presently as a nation violates the dictates of Christ. Just look at the laws that now allow you to kill someone if you just think they are going to harm you. Not exactly turning the other cheek. Cutting spending that helps the poor in this country so that the GOP can cut taxes which will mostly go the the wealthiest of Americans. I sure we can find that somewhere in Christ's teachings. I could go on and on, but you all know what I am talking about. So the next time someone tells you that we are a Christian nation, you can just laugh in their face or agree with them if you can fool yourself into believing that it is true.
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We are about as Christian as latter day Rome, say around the time of Constantine.
 
independentusa said:
Many people in this country say and think we are a Christian Nation. Others say we aren't because the First Amendment says we can't be. Both are wrong. We aren't a Christian nation because in no way does this country follow the dictates of Jesus Christ. Love your neghbor as yourself, NOT. Help the poor, Not. Do not kill, Not. Almost everything that we are doing presently as a nation violates the dictates of Christ. Just look at the laws that now allow you to kill someone if you just think they are going to harm you. Not exactly turning the other cheek. Cutting spending that helps the poor in this country so that the GOP can cut taxes which will mostly go the the wealthiest of Americans. I sure we can find that somewhere in Christ's teachings. I could go on and on, but you all know what I am talking about. So the next time someone tells you that we are a Christian nation, you can just laugh in their face or agree with them if you can fool yourself into believing that it is true.
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"Love your neighbor as yourself" can have many meanings but almost certainly government welfare was not one of them as there is nothing in the words attributed to Jesus that the welfare of the people was the responsibility of government. To "love your neighbor as yourself" can also mean that you forgive your neighbor of his/her transgressions as you forgive yourself or that you allow your neighbor to live and let live (even if he/she is ideologically impure or politically incorrect) as we wish our neighbor to allow us. It can mean that we hold our neighbor to the same standards to love and support their families and be an asset to their communities that we require of ourselves. The interpretations are endless.

As for helping the poor it is mostly Christians who are running relief agencies, soup kitchens, homeless shelters, thrift shops, hiring the handicapped and mentally challenged, ministering in the leper colonies and among some of the world's most poor and hopeless people.

And it is mostly the world's wealthiest who fund the new hospital wings, museums, the arts, the symphonies, and other institutions that benefit and/or enrich our lives. And none of that takes one penny from the poor.

I do agree with you, however, that those who look to government to do what Jesus admonished all of us to do ourselves are not being very Christian.
 
independentusa said:
...the First Amendment says we can't be...
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No it doesn't. This is the text we're talking about:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof... ​

The word "establishment" refers to the bringing forth by law of an institution, like the EPA etc. At the same time the leaders concurred w/ say, Washington in his farewell address:


Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, Religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labour to subvert these great Pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and citizens. The mere Politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them.​



--and the constitution itself was written w/ the assumption the American People were in fact, Christian and accepted Christ as their Lord:

...done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven... ​
 
Yes I help the poor. Yes I love and help my older and even younger neighbors. No I do not kill or even own a weapon to do so. I not only go to church, I am a trustee of the church I belong to. I even donate candy to our local cancer center which they provide to their patients.
 
independentusa said:
Many people in this country say and think we are a Christian Nation. Others say we aren't because the First Amendment says we can't be. Both are wrong. We aren't a Christian nation because in no way does this country follow the dictates of Jesus Christ. Love your neghbor as yourself, NOT. Help the poor, Not. Do not kill, Not. Almost everything that we are doing presently as a nation violates the dictates of Christ. Just look at the laws that now allow you to kill someone if you just think they are going to harm you. Not exactly turning the other cheek. Cutting spending that helps the poor in this country so that the GOP can cut taxes which will mostly go the the wealthiest of Americans. I sure we can find that somewhere in Christ's teachings. I could go on and on, but you all know what I am talking about. So the next time someone tells you that we are a Christian nation, you can just laugh in their face or agree with them if you can fool yourself into believing that it is true.
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Ignorant post.


Americans are highly charitable and giving.... conservatives moreso than liberals, as regards private charity.

Killing someone who is trying to kill you is not forbidden in Christianity. Thou shalt not kill refers to murder and similarly unjustifiable killing.

Many programs to "help the poor" arguably perpetuate poverty as they are not really structured to be a Hand-UP but merely hand-out.


 
You think that in today;'s world just having local charities is enough and that we should instead have our government spend their resources on weapons instead. Yes, very Christian of you.
 
independentusa said:
Many people in this country say and think we are a Christian Nation. Others say we aren't because the First Amendment says we can't be. Both are wrong. We aren't a Christian nation because in no way does this country follow the dictates of Jesus Christ. Love your neghbor as yourself, NOT. Help the poor, Not. Do not kill, Not. Almost everything that we are doing presently as a nation violates the dictates of Christ. Just look at the laws that now allow you to kill someone if you just think they are going to harm you. Not exactly turning the other cheek. Cutting spending that helps the poor in this country so that the GOP can cut taxes which will mostly go the the wealthiest of Americans. I sure we can find that somewhere in Christ's teachings. I could go on and on, but you all know what I am talking about. So the next time someone tells you that we are a Christian nation, you can just laugh in their face or agree with them if you can fool yourself into believing that it is true.
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We are rapidly becoming not a Christian nation, but we still are for the moment.

I do think that Christian funerals are dying fast, people increasingly are doing end of life celebrations instead, which matters.
 
independentusa said:
Many people in this country say and think we are a Christian Nation. Others say we aren't because the First Amendment says we can't be. Both are wrong. We aren't a Christian nation because in no way does this country follow the dictates of Jesus Christ. Love your neghbor as yourself, NOT. Help the poor, Not. Do not kill, Not. Almost everything that we are doing presently as a nation violates the dictates of Christ. Just look at the laws that now allow you to kill someone if you just think they are going to harm you. Not exactly turning the other cheek. Cutting spending that helps the poor in this country so that the GOP can cut taxes which will mostly go the the wealthiest of Americans. I sure we can find that somewhere in Christ's teachings. I could go on and on, but you all know what I am talking about. So the next time someone tells you that we are a Christian nation, you can just laugh in their face or agree with them if you can fool yourself into believing that it is true.
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Actually that's wrong also if we simply use the definitions of words. We have never been a christian nation and we aren't now. We are a nation whose population has a majority of christians in it, including myself but by definition that doesn't make us a christian nation. So the next time somebody tells me that (which I don't think has ever happened in real life) I won't laugh I'll just simply point out the fact that they are wrong by definition. I don;t really find anything funny about that fact it's just a fact.
 
Josie said:
The teachings of Jesus Christ aren't a guide for how a government should run a country. It's about what individual people should do.
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And since the government IS run by individuals, most of which claim to be of the Christian faith, then doing the right thing shouldn't be a problem...........:)
 
Goshin said:
Ignorant post.


Americans are highly charitable and giving.... conservatives moreso than liberals, as regards private charity.

Killing someone who is trying to kill you is not forbidden in Christianity. Thou shalt not kill refers to murder and similarly unjustifiable killing.

Many programs to "help the poor" arguably perpetuate poverty as they are not really structured to be a Hand-UP but merely hand-out.


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A little off topic suggestion:
I used to Mod and Admin a site with 50,000 plus members. As such, I have a high degree of appreciation for what forum Mods do. That said, you might consider refraining from labelling a post as "ignorant". I don't agree with the premise of the text, but I respect the OP for putting it out there for discussion.

In the future, maybe something a little more like, "I have to respectfully disagree" might be more suitable for someone in your position. Just a thought.
 
independentusa said:
Yes I help the poor. Yes I love and help my older and even younger neighbors. No I do not kill or even own a weapon to do so. I not only go to church, I am a trustee of the church I belong to. I even donate candy to our local cancer center which they provide to their patients.
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First, you are to be commended for your charitable work.
Second, you likely do more for others than the majority of the rest of us do.
 
Vetplus40 said:
A little off topic suggestion:
I used to Mod and Admin a site with 50,000 plus members. As such, I have a high degree of appreciation for what forum Mods do. That said, you might consider refraining from labelling a post as "ignorant". I don't agree with the premise of the text, but I respect the OP for putting it out there for discussion.

In the future, maybe something a little more like, "I have to respectfully disagree" might be more suitable for someone in your position. Just a thought.
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Mind your own business and let me worry about mine.


And refrain from commenting on Moderation issues in upstairs threads.... it's against the rules which you might want to read.
 
Captain Adverse is correct in his explanation of why we are considered to be a "Christian based" nation. That said, we have deteriorated significantly from being a "Christian behaving" nation.
 
Vetplus40 said:
No problem. Then please allow me to say that I find BOTH of your responses equally as "ignorant".
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You're entitled to your opinion.


Incidentally, since you apparently don't know the rules very well, it is acceptable to call a post or statement ignorant (in most contexts), but not a member personally (as in a direct insult such as "you are ignorant"). Just a helpful hint for you going forward.
 
independentusa said:
Many people in this country say and think we are a Christian Nation. Others say we aren't because the First Amendment says we can't be. Both are wrong. We aren't a Christian nation because in no way does this country follow the dictates of Jesus Christ. Love your neghbor as yourself, NOT. Help the poor, Not. Do not kill, Not. Almost everything that we are doing presently as a nation violates the dictates of Christ. Just look at the laws that now allow you to kill someone if you just think they are going to harm you. Not exactly turning the other cheek. Cutting spending that helps the poor in this country so that the GOP can cut taxes which will mostly go the the wealthiest of Americans. I sure we can find that somewhere in Christ's teachings. I could go on and on, but you all know what I am talking about. So the next time someone tells you that we are a Christian nation, you can just laugh in their face or agree with them if you can fool yourself into believing that it is true.
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While I do not agree with the premise of your post, I do appreciate your willingness to "throw it out there". That said, pay no attention to those that would "label" your post. Such is merely a posting indication of lack of education, intelligence or possibly both.
 
Goshin said:
You're entitled to your opinion.


Incidentally, since you apparently don't know the rules very well, it is acceptable to call a post or statement ignorant (in most contexts), but not a member personally (as in a direct insult such as "you are ignorant"). Just a helpful hint for you going forward.
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Obviously, you have a much different interpretation of the job "Optics" than do I.
 
Vetplus40 said:
While I do not agree with the premise of your post, I do appreciate your willingness to "throw it out there". That said, pay no attention to those that would "label" your post. Such is merely a posting indication of lack of education, intelligence or possibly both.
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Well now you're trying to get personal. A bit too obvious though.

My official IQ is 125 and I have a college education thanks.


I called it an ignorant post because it is. It ignores private charity (which is huge in this country) in favor of some supposed lack of gov't charity, even though the gov spends around 2 Trillion a year in what could be considered charity. ('Entitlements', SS, welfare, and so on).

It misconstrues a commandment in a way most mainstream Christian denominations do not agree with.

And its most fundamental error is equating a Christian nation with a Christian government, the latter being not only naive and overly optimistic but in fact against almost all Constitutional scholarship... society can be as Christian or whatever as it is, government was structured to be secular in nature from the beginning. As well, the teachings of Christianity are about how one ought to behave as an individual, not a model for a government.


While I can not speak to the thread originator as I don't know him well, most of those who make this argument are not themselves Christian and would argue loudly against any notion of the government being run by Christian principles... thus it is usually presented in a hypocritical manner.
 
Incidentally I am usually one of the most polite posters on this site. Unfortunately the hysteria of the past few months has strained my patience badly, and my ability to suffer foolishness gladly is currently out of whack. :D
 
independentusa said:
Many people in this country say and think we are a Christian Nation. Others say we aren't because the First Amendment says we can't be. Both are wrong. We aren't a Christian nation because in no way does this country follow the dictates of Jesus Christ. Love your neghbor as yourself, NOT. Help the poor, Not. Do not kill, Not. Almost everything that we are doing presently as a nation violates the dictates of Christ. Just look at the laws that now allow you to kill someone if you just think they are going to harm you. Not exactly turning the other cheek. Cutting spending that helps the poor in this country so that the GOP can cut taxes which will mostly go the the wealthiest of Americans. I sure we can find that somewhere in Christ's teachings. I could go on and on, but you all know what I am talking about. So the next time someone tells you that we are a Christian nation, you can just laugh in their face or agree with them if you can fool yourself into believing that it is true.
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*sigh* Yet another atheist who wants to tell Christians what they are supposed to be. :yawn:

Do you really believe government enforced charity is what Jesus had in mind? Perhaps you can quote the chapter and verse that says this.
 
Vetplus40 said:
IQ test scores are one of the most "subjective" and inaccurate score out there. And, as far as college degrees go, lots of us have those too. In fact, my "official" IQ test score is higher than yours, but I would never consider posting it as some "benchmark" for attempting to gain affirmation of an opinion.

That said, there is nothing in the OP that is "ignorant" as Webster defines it.. I merely wanted to tell the OP that some of us do appreciate those that are willing to "open up", despite the criticism that they will likely endure for doing so. If you took it personally, then you simply inferred what you incorrectly thought that I implied.

All of that being conveyed, I do hope that you have a very pleasant evening.
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Well having someone impugn your intelligence and education doesn't bring out the best in people, and don't lie and try to pretend you weren't doing that: you were. You went personal, so that's on you.


I called a POST ignorant, because it is, for reasons I explained rather thoroughly.


And with that I bid you good evening as well sir.
 
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