• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

We are not a Christian nation, and not for the reason you think!

Goshin said:
Incidentally I am usually one of the most polite posters on this site. Unfortunately the hysteria of the past few months has strained my patience badly, and my ability to suffer foolishness gladly is currently out of whack. :D
Click to expand...

I both understand and can appreciate that. Such is why I would not be able to moderate on a site like this.
 
independentusa said:
Many people in this country say and think we are a Christian Nation. Others say we aren't because the First Amendment says we can't be. Both are wrong. We aren't a Christian nation because in no way does this country follow the dictates of Jesus Christ. Love your neghbor as yourself, NOT. Help the poor, Not. Do not kill, Not. Almost everything that we are doing presently as a nation violates the dictates of Christ. Just look at the laws that now allow you to kill someone if you just think they are going to harm you. Not exactly turning the other cheek. Cutting spending that helps the poor in this country so that the GOP can cut taxes which will mostly go the the wealthiest of Americans. I sure we can find that somewhere in Christ's teachings. I could go on and on, but you all know what I am talking about. So the next time someone tells you that we are a Christian nation, you can just laugh in their face or agree with them if you can fool yourself into believing that it is true.
Click to expand...

We are increasingly a relativistic nation with all the questions that poses.
 
independentusa said:
Many people in this country say and think we are a Christian Nation. Others say we aren't because the First Amendment says we can't be. Both are wrong. We aren't a Christian nation because in no way does this country follow the dictates of Jesus Christ. Love your neghbor as yourself, NOT. Help the poor, Not. Do not kill, Not. Almost everything that we are doing presently as a nation violates the dictates of Christ. Just look at the laws that now allow you to kill someone if you just think they are going to harm you. Not exactly turning the other cheek. Cutting spending that helps the poor in this country so that the GOP can cut taxes which will mostly go the the wealthiest of Americans. I sure we can find that somewhere in Christ's teachings. I could go on and on, but you all know what I am talking about. So the next time someone tells you that we are a Christian nation, you can just laugh in their face or agree with them if you can fool yourself into believing that it is true.
Click to expand...

Google the amount of money that Christians donate every year.

You cannot be that daft to not realize that there is a difference between the individual and the gov't.
 
Vetplus40 said:
And since the government IS run by individuals, most of which claim to be of the Christian faith, then doing the right thing shouldn't be a problem...........:)
Click to expand...

I see -- so you want Congress to use the Bible as their basis for legislation?
 
Goshin said:
Well having someone impugn your intelligence and education doesn't bring out the best in people, and don't lie and try to pretend you weren't doing that: you were. You went personal, so that's on you.


I called a POST ignorant, because it is, for reasons I explained rather thoroughly.


And with that I bid you good evening as well sir.
Click to expand...

Obviously, you read the post before I was able to delete it. In retrospect, I shouldn't have posted it.

That said, my OP response was not aimed at you in an "inclusive" context, but an "editorial" one. I have no need to "lie" about anything to you or anyone else on this site.
 
Josie said:
I see -- so you want Congress to use the Bible as their basis for legislation?
Click to expand...

That isn't what I said. What I said was that Christian values should reside in the very individuals that comprise the Government. Do you feel as though that is an unrealistic expectation?
 
Last edited:
countryboy said:
*sigh* Yet another atheist who wants to tell Christians what they are supposed to be. :yawn:
Do you really believe government enforced charity is what Jesus had in mind? Perhaps you can quote the chapter and verse that says this.[/QUOTE

As someone who holds a degree from a religious institution, I am most curious as to what in the OP indicates that the poster is either an atheist or agnostic?
Click to expand...
 
Vetplus40 said:
That isn't what I said. What I said was that Christian values should reside in the very individuals that comprise the Government. Do you feel as though that is an unrealistic expectation.
Click to expand...

Again - Christian values are for the individual, not for a government. It's not the government's job to uphold Christian values, is it? And if it is, which ones and why?
 
Vetplus40 said:
Obviously, you read the post before I was able to delete it. In retrospect, I shouldn't have posted it.

That said, my OP response was not aimed at you in an "inclusive" context, but an "editorial" one. I have no need to "lie" about anything to you or anyone else on this site.
Click to expand...



As you say then.


As I said, dealing with months of political hysteria here has left me more irritable than the norm, and some of my replies were less than temperate and less polite than is my custom.
 
Josie said:
Again - Christian values are for the individual, not for a government. It's not the government's job to uphold Christian values, is it? And if it is, which ones and why?
Click to expand...

Again, that is not what I am saying. You seem to think that the government is some faceless entity, like the infamous "they" that people so often talk about. In fact, the government is a collection of individuals putting forth measures by which to govern by.

I think that we are each talking about different things here..............:)
 
Vetplus40 said:
countryboy said:
*sigh* Yet another atheist who wants to tell Christians what they are supposed to be. :yawn:
Do you really believe government enforced charity is what Jesus had in mind? Perhaps you can quote the chapter and verse that says this.
Click to expand...

As someone who holds a degree from a religious institution, I am most curious as to what in the OP indicates that the poster is either an atheist or agnostic?
Click to expand...



What you may not know, being relatively new, is this thread is not a new concept at DP. We see it every few weeks, usually posted by a non-Christian with no more than a shallow understanding of Christianity (if that)..... thus, some assume it is more of the same.
 
Incidentally is anyone else seeing glitches when using the "quote" function?
 
Goshin said:
As you say then.


As I said, dealing with months of political hysteria here has left me more irritable than the norm, and some of my replies were less than temperate and less polite than is my custom.
Click to expand...

Regardless of the forum rules, I should not have commented on your post publicly. For that, I owe you a very sincere apology.
 
Vetplus40 said:
Again, that is not what I am saying. You seem to think that the government is some faceless entity, like the infamous "they" that people so often talk about. In fact, the government is a collection of individuals putting forth measures by which to govern by.

I think that we are each talking about different things here..............:)
Click to expand...

No, we aren't.

Josie said:
The teachings of Jesus Christ aren't a guide for how a government should run a country. It's about what individual people should do.
Click to expand...

Vetplus40 said:
And since the government IS run by individuals, most of which claim to be of the Christian faith, then doing the right thing shouldn't be a problem...........:)
Click to expand...

You believe that since most of the government is run by people of the Christian faith, they should govern (i.e. make laws) based on those values. Correct?
 
Vetplus40 said:
Regardless of the forum rules, I should not have commented on your post publicly. For that, I owe you a very sincere apology.
Click to expand...


And my apologies in return, for my irritable response.
 
Vetplus40 said:
That isn't what I said. What I said was that Christian values should reside in the very individuals that comprise the Government. Do you feel as though that is an unrealistic expectation?
Click to expand...



Ideally, one would hope.

However I have grave doubt that many in Congress or the WH are genuinely sincere believers and practitioners of Christianity. Most merely give it lip service as the large majority of their constituents are Christian. IMO.


Whether the same principles/ideals valued for relations between individuals is also applicable to the governance of a nation is a very old dichotomy or dispute as well.
 
Vetplus40 said:
Yes, sometimes the quotes show without the highlight box.
Click to expand...

You need to proofread your posts, you may have accidentally deleted the last part of the QUOTE tag. Easy to fix.
 
Josie said:
No, we aren't.





You believe that since most of the government is run by people of the Christian faith, they should govern (i.e. make laws) based on those values. Correct?
Click to expand...



What we're running into here is an old question...

As above, so below?


Should government operate on the same ideals that are supposed to regulate how individuals treat each other? Is it even feasible?
 
independentusa said:
Many people in this country say and think we are a Christian Nation. Others say we aren't because the First Amendment says we can't be. Both are wrong. We aren't a Christian nation because in no way does this country follow the dictates of Jesus Christ. Love your neghbor as yourself, NOT. Help the poor, Not. Do not kill, Not. Almost everything that we are doing presently as a nation violates the dictates of Christ. Just look at the laws that now allow you to kill someone if you just think they are going to harm you. Not exactly turning the other cheek. Cutting spending that helps the poor in this country so that the GOP can cut taxes which will mostly go the the wealthiest of Americans. I sure we can find that somewhere in Christ's teachings. I could go on and on, but you all know what I am talking about. So the next time someone tells you that we are a Christian nation, you can just laugh in their face or agree with them if you can fool yourself into believing that it is true.
Click to expand...

The USA has a welfare system, and many Americans will tell you that they vote for this because they feel it is their Christian duty to help the poor.

We have laws against murder and prosecute murderers.

The Biblical admonition not to kill is not absolute. You are allowed to kill in self defense. "Turning the other cheek" doesn't apply to someone who's trying to kill you.

Charity is sinful if it hurts you or your loved ones to provide it. The poor will always be with us, and reasonable limits have to be placed on efforts to help the poor if we are not going to hurt our economy.

People who are not Christian make a hash out of it when they try to interpret scripture.
 
Captain Adverse said:
We are a "Christian nation" because the majority of our citizens currently identify as a member one or another Christian "sect."

Much like Muslim nations have a majority of citizens who identify as either Sunni or Shia sects of Islam.

That does not make our nation a Theocracy, i.e. religiously governed like Vatican City, or perhaps Iran (although it has a constitutional government the Ayatollah can over-rule it).

As for following the dictates of Jesus Christ?

Few people can truly say they do so, and even then it would be a debate as to the truth of such assertions based on individual interpretations of what does and doe not constitute "following His dictates" means.
Click to expand...

^^^ This^^^
 
Fletch said:
Are YOU helping the poor? Do YOU love your neighbor? Do YOU kill? That is all that matters in Christianity. There isn't a collective soul or a collective free ride to the Pearly Gates. You get there through your own merit, your own behavior and your own faith. That you vote in socialist to political power wont help you.
Click to expand...

Non Christian and agnostics to atheists can do all of the above. Politics and how you vote can be seen as how you look at societies responsibilities to the points made.
 
Beaudreaux said:
Depending on the data you look at, between 70.6% and 75% of the American population identifies themselves as Christians.
Click to expand...

90% believe in a God, 70% believe in Heaven, 60% in Hell.

But how often does this add up to meaning anything in their lives?

Less and less all the time I think.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom