• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

We are not a Christian nation, and not for the reason you think!

poweRob said:
I've seen churches do good things. I've also seen them enrich their pastors ridiculously and do absolutely nothing and call it charity... because their "charity" was "saving souls".
Click to expand...



Some.


Some people think the TV megachurches are an example of the whole. They aren't. Most churches are less than 200 people and very involved in the community. Most pastors are poor as dirt.
 
Matthew 6:1
 
Serenity said:
Matthew 6:1
Click to expand...

Mathew, Mark and Luke seem to have fallen out of favor as John was given the ball, and the people proudly and loudly began cheering their team on.
 
Timely:


Why So Many Conservative Christians Feel Like a Persecuted Minority

Is America a post-Christian nation? For many true believers, it certainly feels that way.
.
.
.
During the Obama years, the religious right began to suspect that it had decisively lost the culture war. Secular liberal elites had finally succeeded in stripping the public square of religiously grounded moral arguments — and their victory was accomplished not by thwarting democracy but by riding it to power. The moral majority had become a moral minority, with devoutly religious voters hemmed in on all sides, immersed in an increasingly hostile secular culture and incapable of mustering the votes to fight back at the national level. If the U.S. wasn't a secular society in 1984, in 2017 it apparently is.
.
.
.
Nothing in the surprise election of President Trump, who was strongly supported by the remnants of the religious right, changes this doleful situation. In Dreher's view, Trump's victory "has at best given us a bit more time to prepare for the inevitable." That's because "secular nihilism has won the day." And its triumph isn't a product of a liberal elite imposing it on the country so much as it is a consequence of the fact that "the American people, either actively or passively, approve."
Click to expand...
Why so many conservative Christians feel like a persecuted minority


Sounds Right.
 
Goshin said:
Some.


Some people think the TV megachurches are an example of the whole. They aren't. Most churches are less than 200 people and very involved in the community. Most pastors are poor as dirt.
Click to expand...

This is truth.
 
poweRob said:
Some do... many don't. And the richest country in the history of the planet shouldn't be forced to rely on charity from churches as if we were third world.
Click to expand...

What should we rely on?
 
poweRob said:
Some do... many don't. And the richest country in the history of the planet shouldn't be forced to rely on charity from churches as if we were third world.
Click to expand...

Many don't? Evidence?
 
poweRob said:
Social programs. Hence a society takes care of itself.
Click to expand...

That's not "society taking care of itself". That's forcing society to take care of people whether they wish to or not. I prefer liberty over tyranny. Evidently you do not. Shocker. :roll:

BTW, still waiting for your evidence that "most churches" don't do charitable works. Got anything yet?
 
countryboy said:
Many don't? Evidence?
Click to expand...

Prove a negative huh? It was your contention:

countryboy said:
And you realize that churches do a great deal of charitable work for the needy here and abroad, right?
Click to expand...

Just prove the ones you claimed do and deduct the rest.
 
poweRob said:
Prove a negative huh? It was your contention:



Just prove the ones you claimed do and deduct the rest.
Click to expand...

You are the one who made the claim. Moving the goal posts and deflecting don't change that. I knew you had nothing, but thanks for confirming it. :)
 
countryboy said:
That's not "society taking care of itself".
Click to expand...

Yes it is.

countryboy said:
That's forcing society to take care of people whether they wish to or not. I prefer liberty over tyranny. Evidently you do not. Shocker. :roll:
Click to expand...

No, that's reaffirming an admission that you don't believe you live within a society.
 
countryboy said:
You are the one who made the claim. Moving the goal posts and deflecting don't change that. I knew you had nothing, but thanks for confirming it. :)
Click to expand...

BS... you made the claim that they do and never backed it up.
 
countryboy said:
You realize churches are required by law to provide details of what their money is spent on, right? And you realize many churches as a matter of course make this information publicly available, right? And you realize that churches do a great deal of charitable work for the needy here and abroad, right? Of course you do. And yet, you feel the need to spread disinformation. Why?
Click to expand...

poweRob said:
Some do... many don't.
Click to expand...

I've been a part of many denominations and I honestly can't think of one that doesn't do charity work in the US or abroad. I've been in tiny churches of less than 50 members and huge churches of 1,000 or more. They all work with food pantries, help families out at holiday time with food and gifts, help out a random person they know who can't afford their bills, fund missionaries abroad, invite strangers in for potlucks, etc.

Can you provide some information about a few churches who do ZERO charitable work so we can avoid them?
 
independentusa said:
Many people in this country say and think we are a Christian Nation. Others say we aren't because the First Amendment says we can't be. Both are wrong. We aren't a Christian nation because in no way does this country follow the dictates of Jesus Christ. Love your neghbor as yourself, NOT. Help the poor, Not. Do not kill, Not. Almost everything that we are doing presently as a nation violates the dictates of Christ. Just look at the laws that now allow you to kill someone if you just think they are going to harm you. Not exactly turning the other cheek. Cutting spending that helps the poor in this country so that the GOP can cut taxes which will mostly go the the wealthiest of Americans. I sure we can find that somewhere in Christ's teachings. I could go on and on, but you all know what I am talking about. So the next time someone tells you that we are a Christian nation, you can just laugh in their face or agree with them if you can fool yourself into believing that it is true.
Click to expand...

Actually, those would all be arguments that we're not a Christian Government, not that we're not a Christian Nation

Sorry, yet another "Christian Nation" thread so I had to put my standard "obnoxious political science major desperate to make some use out of his ****ty degree" hat on :)
 
Josie said:
I've been a part of many denominations and I honestly can't think of one that doesn't do charity work in the US or abroad. I've been in tiny churches of less than 50 members and huge churches of 1,000 or more. They all work with food pantries, help families out at holiday time with food and gifts, help out a random person they know who can't afford their bills, fund missionaries abroad, invite strangers in for potlucks, etc.

Can you provide some information about a few churches who do ZERO charitable work so we can avoid them?
Click to expand...
Haven't you heard? He says he can't prove a negative. It's up to us to refute his bogus claims, because libs just know they're right. They don't have to actually prove anything they say, because EVERYONE knows they're right. :rolleyes:
 
AlbqOwl said:
Ask persons anywhere to list the Christian nations of the world, the USA would surely be included on every list. We are a Christian nation because it was people seeking freedom to practice their Christian faith who came as the first settlers in what would become the United States of America. Even the Spanish conquistadors made spread of the Catholic faith a priority as they sought to conquer Mexico and the Southwest. The Founders intended us to be a Christian nation even setting aside Adams' politically expedient denial to get agreement for the Treaty of Tripoli.

Because the USA made freedom of religion the First Amendment, the Founders, who believed the Constitution would work only for a moral and religious Christian people, offered sanctuary, protection, safe haven for all religions that arrived here. Because Christians were intended to be able to exercise their religion without interference from the federal government, all religions were included in the blessings of liberty.
Click to expand...

Peoples wrong opinions don't interest me. I'll simply be going but the definitions of the two words and the fact is we are not. We are simply a country with a majority of christians in it like myself. By definition USA has never been a christian nation and it isn't now.
 
LaylaWindu said:
Peoples wrong opinions don't interest me. I'll simply be going but the definitions of the two words and the fact is we are not. We are simply a country with a majority of christians in it like myself. By definition USA has never been a christian nation and it isn't now.
Click to expand...

How about opinions based on actual fact? The first settlers in the New World came here in search of religious liberty that they were unable to obtain under the authority of the Archbishop of Canterbury and state ordered religion in England or the Catholic pope who held authority in most of western Europe.

At least nine of the original 13 colonies were established via specific established churches/Christian sects/denominations and required office holders to be confessed Christians loyal to those sects/denominations. A belief in Jesus Christ was mandatory.

(Subsequently 49 of the 50 states address their constitutional preambles to God/Creator or a similar term and the 50th makes reference to God in the body of its constitution.)

John Locke's two treatises of government were profoundly influential on the early culture of America and the Constitution it ultimately developed, and these were based on the concept of God given/natural law that is the very foundation of what the Constitution was intended to protect.

The Founders themselves were almost to a man devout Christians and even the very few 'deists' among them embraced and endorsed Christian principles, the Bible upon which Christian principles are based, and the ethics and morality promoted by the Christian religion.

Ultimately they gave us a 'secular' government so that no predominant Christian group or any other religion would be able to lord it over any others--no monarch, pope, or archbishop would have authority over the laws and governance of the people who would themselves ordain and establish a government that would allow them to govern themselves.

But it was a government based on Christian values established by Christians for a nation of almost all Christian citizens at the time.

We were and are a Christian nation, and because we are, people of all faiths have found equality, security, and peace here.
 
poweRob said:
Social programs. Hence a society takes care of itself.
Click to expand...

Josie said:
Are members of churches not society?
Click to expand...

Josie said:
I've been a part of many denominations and I honestly can't think of one that doesn't do charity work in the US or abroad. I've been in tiny churches of less than 50 members and huge churches of 1,000 or more. They all work with food pantries, help families out at holiday time with food and gifts, help out a random person they know who can't afford their bills, fund missionaries abroad, invite strangers in for potlucks, etc.

Can you provide some information about a few churches who do ZERO charitable work so we can avoid them?
Click to expand...

.....................
 
AlbqOwl said:
How about opinions based on actual fact? The first settlers in the New World came here in search of religious liberty that they were unable to obtain under the authority of the Archbishop of Canterbury and state ordered religion in England or the Catholic pope who held authority in most of western Europe.

At least nine of the original 13 colonies were established via specific established churches/Christian sects/denominations and required office holders to be confessed Christians loyal to those sects/denominations. A belief in Jesus Christ was mandatory.

(Subsequently 49 of the 50 states address their constitutional preambles to God/Creator or a similar term and the 50th makes reference to God in the body of its constitution.)

John Locke's two treatises of government were profoundly influential on the early culture of America and the Constitution it ultimately developed, and these were based on the concept of God given/natural law that is the very foundation of what the Constitution was intended to protect.

The Founders themselves were almost to a man devout Christians and even the very few 'deists' among them embraced and endorsed Christian principles, the Bible upon which Christian principles are based, and the ethics and morality promoted by the Christian religion.

Ultimately they gave us a 'secular' government so that no predominant Christian group or any other religion would be able to lord it over any others--no monarch, pope, or archbishop would have authority over the laws and governance of the people who would themselves ordain and establish a government that would allow them to govern themselves.

But it was a government based on Christian values established by Christians for a nation of almost all Christian citizens at the time.

We were and are a Christian nation, and because we are, people of all faiths have found equality, security, and peace here.
Click to expand...

Thanks but nothing you said changes the facts that we were never a christian nation and still aren't. All you did is state some facts that you base your OPINIONS on but nothing you stated makes your opinion true or this country a christian country. My post stands please let us know when you have something that changes it in any way. Thank you.

"Peoples wrong opinions don't interest me. I'll simply be going but the definitions of the two words and the fact is we are not. We are simply a country with a majority of christians in it like myself. By definition USA has never been a christian nation and it isn't now."
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom