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Passage of the AHCA all boils down to this:

ataraxia said:
Probably true. Depends on how you look at it. So are, I suppose, things like a police dept, fire dept, a coast guard to help when natural disasters strike, public schools, etc... I guess it comes down to semantics. But I just see these things as just something that competent governments and decent societies which are anything more than barbaric savages really need to provide. I guess it all depends on what kind of country you want to live in.
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Ah, if only we had a competent government.
 
fmw said:
Ah, if only we had a competent government.
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It's not perfect. But that doesn't mean we gut it.

My Chevy is not perfect. But it's better'n nothing. It gets me where I need to go. Just because the brakes squeak once in a while doesn't mean I ditch it and ride a donkey to work every day.
 
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ataraxia said:
It's not perfect. But that doesn't mean we gut it.

My Chevy is not perfect. But it's better'n nothing. It gets me where I need to go. Just because the brakes squeak once in a while doesn't mean I ditch it and ride a donkey to work every day.
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Your Chevy runs and does its job. We've already proven time and again that putting anything related to health care under government management is a disaster. We know government won't do its job.
 
fmw said:
Your Chevy runs and does its job. We've already proven time and again that putting anything related to health care under government management is a disaster. We know government won't do its job.
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Well, I wish that was true. Unfortunately, my Chevy doesn't always run or do its job. But I still appreciate it, though. If it was true that "putting anything related to health care under government management is a disaster", you wouldn't have every single developed and developing economy on the planet adapting a system of universal healthcare. It's a basic human right, as defined by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It's not a BMW, where it's OK if only the wealthy can afford it.

If government interference in healthcare was such a disaster, you wouldn't have all those sophisticated freedom loving Tea Partiers carrying those placards saying "Stop socialized medicine and keep your hands off my Medicare!"... or these proud Trump supporters worrying about losing their Obamacare:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oqnk4kt2Z-c

There's a difference between a government protecting the basic human rights and dignities of its citizens, and commodities left up to the free market. Government may not be perfect, but it is necessary in those situations where you can't just leave things only to the whims of the free market.
 
ataraxia said:
Well, I wish that was true. Unfortunately, my Chevy doesn't always run or do its job. But I still appreciate it, though. If it was true that "putting anything related to health care under government management is a disaster", you wouldn't have every single developed and developing economy on the planet adapting a system of universal healthcare. It's a basic human right, as defined by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It's not a BMW, where it's OK if only the wealthy can afford it.

If government interference in healthcare was such a disaster, you wouldn't have all those sophisticated freedom loving Tea Partiers carrying those placards saying "Stop socialized medicine and keep your hands off my Medicare!"... or these proud Trump supporters worrying about losing their Obamacare:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oqnk4kt2Z-c

There's a difference between a government protecting the basic human rights and dignities of its citizens, and commodities left up to the free market. Government may not be perfect, but it is necessary in those situations where you can't just leave things only to the whims of the free market.
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I'm sorry. I wasn't clear. I was talking about our government, not the rest of the world.
 
Government has done its job on health care fine by me... Medicare seems to have worked fine for me and others for 50 years or so, not bad for a government program. Pre 65' I also benefited from another government program that insured the "uninsurable", due to a chronic disease, allowing me to pay (a lot) for insurance, something like assigned risk auto insurance. Respectfully request you provide "time and time again" examples. I am sure they are out there, but on balance governments have done a good job in countries where it provides health care. There are no moves to "repeal and replace" healthcare in Europe, Canada, etc.
 
fmw said:
I'm sorry. I wasn't clear. I was talking about our government, not the rest of the world.
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The rest of the world has competent government, and that's why they spend less on healthcare and have better public health outcomes for their citizens. They don't just leave everything alone with the ridiculous notion that that always leads to the best results.
 
Nickyjo said:
I am sure they are out there, but on balance governments have done a good job in countries where it provides health care. There are no moves to "repeal and replace" healthcare in Europe, Canada, etc.
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Actually, in England at least, they scare people with the idea of "American Style Healthcare"- it's even worse than talking about "death panels".

Ask a Briton to describe "American-style" healthcare, and you'll hear a catalog of horrors that include grossly expensive and unnecessary medical procedures and a privatized system that favors the rich. For a people accustomed to free healthcare for all, regardless of income, the fact that millions of their cousins across the Atlantic have no insurance and can't afford decent treatment is a farce as well as a tragedy.
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Britain healthcare: British fear 'American-style' healthcare system - latimes
 
Anything? Medicare and at one point Medicaid have done fine by me. I have a chronic, incurable disease and would be dead (broke first) without them. Go back and read what genius Reagan said about Medicare. He has been proven wrong. Very wrong. We just need to bite whatever bullet there is and join the rest of the world. We have a huge advantage going last: we can learn from the mistakes of the rest of the world and create an even better system.
 
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