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Black man refers to slaves as immigrants. How embarassing.

KLATTU

KLATTU

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Certainly it wasn’t easy for those of African heritage who had not come here voluntarily, and yet in their own way were immigrants themselves. There was discrimination and hardship and poverty. But, like you, they no doubt found inspiration in all those who had come before them. And they were able to muster faith that, here in America, they might build a better life and give their children something more."

11 Times Barack Obama Compared Slaves To Immigrants

and believe me, I remember liberals being OUTRAGED over this!
 
humbolt said:
It has to be. The are any number of causes of forced immigration.
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So, given the extensive qualifications, there was nothing wrong with what Obama said.
 
ecofarm said:
So, given the extensive qualifications, there was nothing wrong with what Obama said.
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Stop embarassing yourself.

He said many things that were identical...


We say it so often, we sometimes forget what it means — we are a nation of immigrants. Unless you are one of the first Americans, a Native American, we are all descended from folks who came from someplace else — whether they arrived on the Mayflower or on a slave ship, whether they came through Ellis Island or crossed the Rio Grande.-Obama

And so what we wanted to do was adapt to the times, adapt to the 21st century, but also remind ourselves that there are some old-fashioned, timeworn values; that whether your forebears landed at Ellis Island or they came here on a slave ship or they crossed the Rio Grande, or however they got here, they typically had a commitment to hard work and a commitment to community and a commitment to family and a willingness to dream big dreams, and a patriotism that was not rooted in ethnicity but was rooted in a creed and a set of ideals and a belief that in America anything was possible.-Obama

"There were other immigrants who came in the bottom of slave ships, who worked even longer, even harder, for less, but they too had a dream that one day their sons, daughters, grandsons, granddaughters, great grandsons, great granddaughters might pursue prosperity and happiness in this land,-Carson
 
KLATTU said:
Certainly it wasn’t easy for those of African heritage who had not come here voluntarily, and yet in their own way were immigrants themselves. There was discrimination and hardship and poverty. But, like you, they no doubt found inspiration in all those who had come before them. And they were able to muster faith that, here in America, they might build a better life and give their children something more."

11 Times Barack Obama Compared Slaves To Immigrants

and believe me, I remember liberals being OUTRAGED over this!
Click to expand...

What makes you think that they weren't immigrants!?
 
KLATTU said:
Stop embarassing yourself.

He said many things that were identical...
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Embarrassing myself? I'm not sure I could on the internet. I've done some pretty outrageous stuff, especially in sub-forums allowing for such. One might even say zany antics. I've posted pics, made fake threads and engaged in outlandish satire that some people didn't get. I'm yet to feel embarrassment.

The other things he said are all couched in context and qualified, explained or noted.

Are well all (except Natives) immigrants? Well, yeah. In a way (if we ignore legal context and merely examine the geographics), so are Natives. The important thing is, whether slaves, Natives or other specific non-voluntary group, we note the subtle and not-so-subtle differences.
 
ecofarm said:
So, given the extensive qualifications, there was nothing wrong with what Obama said.
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Nope, and neither was there anything wrong with what Carson said. I'm not sure the grounds for comparison is all that compelling, but without assigning motives out of hand, I see nothing wrong either way.
 
humbolt said:
Forced immigration is still immigration.
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The phrase "forced immigration" to describe abduction is like phrasing "forced sex" to describe rape -- the kidnap victim isn't "immigrating" and neither is the violently assaulted woman "having sex".

The definition of "immigration" is "the action of coming to live permanently in a foreign country". The word "coming" means the immigrant made a decision to immigrate.

Kidnap victims abducted into slave ships made no such decision -- their abduction, kidnapping and importation was against their will; they were brought to America, they did not come of their own free will. Thus they simply were not immigrants.

They were captives trafficked to America as property. They were never immigrants.

Many died here, never having been immigrants. Those who managed to survive, they had children, and their children had children .. and when they were liberated by the Civil War, they were declared naturalized citizens and those who were abducted and their ancestors were given the freedom to return home.

None of them were ever immigrants.

Obama and Carson and those who spin so egregiously erroneously embarrass themselves greatly but that does not mean they have so sacrificed their integrity to the degree that they get to rewrite the meaning of English words as compensation.
 
Ontologuy said:
The phrase "forced immigration" to describe abduction is like phrasing "forced sex" to describe rape -- the kidnap victim isn't "immigrating" and neither is the violently assaulted woman "having sex".

The definition of "immigration" is "the action of coming to live permanently in a foreign country". The word "coming" means the immigrant made a decision to immigrate.

Kidnap victims abducted into slave ships made no such decision -- their abduction, kidnapping and importation was against their will; they were brought to America, they did not come of their own free will. Thus they simply were not immigrants.

They were captives trafficked to America as property. They were never immigrants.

Many died here, never having been immigrants. Those who managed to survive, they had children, and their children had children .. and when they were liberated by the Civil War, they were declared naturalized citizens and those who were abducted and their ancestors were given the freedom to return home.

None of them were ever immigrants.

Obama and Carson and those who spin so egregiously erroneously embarrass themselves greatly but that does not mean they have so sacrificed their integrity to the degree that they get to rewrite the meaning of English words as compensation.
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I'm out for the day. I'll try to respond later - perhaps this evening.
 
Ontologuy said:
The phrase "forced immigration" to describe abduction is like phrasing "forced sex" to describe rape -- the kidnap victim isn't "immigrating" and neither is the violently assaulted woman "having sex".

The definition of "immigration" is "the action of coming to live permanently in a foreign country". The word "coming" means the immigrant made a decision to immigrate.

Kidnap victims abducted into slave ships made no such decision -- their abduction, kidnapping and importation was against their will; they were brought to America, they did not come of their own free will. Thus they simply were not immigrants.

They were captives trafficked to America as property. They were never immigrants.

Many died here, never having been immigrants. Those who managed to survive, they had children, and their children had children .. and when they were liberated by the Civil War, they were declared naturalized citizens and those who were abducted and their ancestors were given the freedom to return home.

None of them were ever immigrants.

Obama and Carson and those who spin so egregiously erroneously embarrass themselves greatly but that does not mean they have so sacrificed their integrity to the degree that they get to rewrite the meaning of English words as compensation.
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You might be surprised at the various definitions of rape ... forced sex might be one of them and sometimes it doesn't even have to be forced.
But the definition of "immigrant" fits with what how Carson and Obama used it.
But it is interesting to see how easy it is for some to get all gigged up about such things when they know who used the word but then dismiss the significance of it's use by others in the same context.
 
Ontologuy said:
The phrase "forced immigration" to describe abduction is like phrasing "forced sex" to describe rape -- the kidnap victim isn't "immigrating" and neither is the violently assaulted woman "having sex".

The definition of "immigration" is "the action of coming to live permanently in a foreign country". The word "coming" means the immigrant made a decision to immigrate.
n.
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Well that's YOUR definition, ( and I agree with it ) but Ben Carson used a broader definition of the word,( SHAME!) . The fact the he said they came on slave ships kinda gives it way that he wasn't saying they came here voluntarily.
 
KLATTU said:
Certainly it wasn’t easy for those of African heritage who had not come here voluntarily, and yet in their own way were immigrants themselves. There was discrimination and hardship and poverty. But, like you, they no doubt found inspiration in all those who had come before them. And they were able to muster faith that, here in America, they might build a better life and give their children something more."

11 Times Barack Obama Compared Slaves To Immigrants

and believe me, I remember liberals being OUTRAGED over this!
Click to expand...

Good to know this early on that every single action and word compilation from everyone associated with this administration will be judged by "Did Obama do it too? If so, it's okay."

I never knew people admired Obama so much that his behavior became the benchmark for, well, everything.
 
tres borrachos said:
Good to know this early on that every single action and word compilation from everyone associated with this administration will be judged by "Did Obama do it too? If so, it's okay."

I never knew people admired Obama so much that his behavior became the benchmark for, well, everything.
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No, you miss the point, the people criticizing the new admin are doing so with a venom not seen in politics in the last 40 years and they make these big moralizing arguments that are motivated only by the speaker and not the content. Ben Carson is an honorable man his politics notwithstanding and to make such a fake and self serving criticism of him in this way does beg the question, do you really have a problem with what he said? Or is this just Trump Derangement syndrome?
 
EMNofSeattle said:
No, you miss the point, the people criticizing the new admin are doing so with a venom not seen in politics in the last 40 years and they make these big moralizing arguments that are motivated only by the speaker and not the content. Ben Carson is an honorable man his politics notwithstanding and to make such a fake and self serving criticism of him in this way does beg the question, do you really have a problem with what he said? Or is this just Trump Derangement syndrome?
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I already said in the many other threads on this subject that I'm a great admirer of Doctor Carson - always have been and always will be. Of course you wouldn't know that because everything is "You're a big meanie to the great Donald Trump!".

I think this was a very poor choice of words on Doctor Carson's part and apparently he thinks so as well since he spent the next 24 hours trying to clarify and restate and rephrase them. He meant nothing malicious by them in my opinion, and he remains the decent and honorable man I always believed him to be, which I also said repeatedly yesterday.

And "Obama did it too!" is about the weakest argument anyone can make.

But go on playing the victim and Trump protector.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
No, you miss the point, the people criticizing the new admin are doing so with a venom not seen in politics in the last 40 years and they make these big moralizing arguments that are motivated only by the speaker and not the content. Ben Carson is an honorable man his politics notwithstanding and to make such a fake and self serving criticism of him in this way does beg the question, do you really have a problem with what he said? Or is this just Trump Derangement syndrome?
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Oh yes, had Hillary won, Republicans would have joined hands and sung Kumbaya. I guess calling someone the most corrupt bitch in American history is a way of showing your love, not venom. Lol
 
americanwoman said:
Oh yes, had Hillary won, Republicans would have joined hands and sung Kumbaya. I guess calling someone the most corrupt bitch in American history is a way of showing your love, not venom. Lol
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It's what they call "tough love". :)

And yeah, had Hillary won instead, everyone would have held hands, signing as rainbows and sparkles rained down from the sky.
 
americanwoman said:
Oh yes, had Hillary won, Republicans would have joined hands and sung Kumbaya. I guess calling someone the most corrupt bitch in American history is a way of showing your love, not venom. Lol
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Regardless, we're discussing what's happpening now involving Dr Ben Carson, not a hypothetical involving Hillary clinton.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Regardless, we're discussing what's happpening now involving Dr Ben Carson, not a hypothetical involving Hillary clinton.
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You are saying this is a new venom aimed at the current administration, I am only arguing there would still be a lot of venom regardless of the administration.
 
tres borrachos said:
Good to know this early on that every single action and word compilation from everyone associated with this administration will be judged by "Did Obama do it too? If so, it's okay."

I never knew people admired Obama so much that his behavior became the benchmark for, well, everything.
Click to expand...

It's directed at the misguided outrage by liberals. ".... Can you IMAGINE being so stupid as to refer to slaves as immigrants? "
 
KLATTU said:
It's directed at the misguided outrage by liberals. ".... Can you IMAGINE being so stupid as to refer to slaves as immigrants? "
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So was Obama stupid and therefore Carson is too? Or was Obama smart and therefore Carson is too?
 
tres borrachos said:
So was Obama stupid and therefore Carson is too? Or was Obama smart and therefore Carson is too?
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{sigh] . No neither one said anything wrong or stupid . That's the point. People don't always formulate their sentences in perfect ways.
 
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