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I have thought negatively about the right for a long time[W:103]

ataraxia said:
So you are saying that all those Trump supporters who just want their old manufacturing jobs back should stop looking to Trump and his big government tariffs and interventions, and start acting like those hard working work ethic illegal immigrants who Trump says are all criminals and wants to throw out?

Sorry, I am getting very, very confused.
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I suspect your confusion is intentional. Thats probably why you attempted to correlate the two.

Yes...manufacturing jobs have changed and yes we should work to bring back solid middle income wage opportunities. In the meantime, we should also be willing to do what we need to do to thrive. If you werent smart enough to prepare yourself for your future as a teenager (I wasnt) then you better be willing to either work you ass off as an adult t establish a better standard of living for yourself and your family or just roll over on your back and submissively pee yourself while you accept the handouts from the government. Your choice.
 
VanceMack said:
Heres the problem with your graph. It doesnt reflect the level of effort by those in the different groups, nor does it reflect the numbers of new millionaires that leave the 90% income brackets.

You knwo the real problem with 'trickle down economics'? Leftists expect that all they have to do is wait and if the top tier becomes successful, wealth will trickle down to them like magic. What we HAVE seen is those that are willing to bust their ass and work hard can and do change their economic status. Those that arent willing, havent and never will become successful. Those individuals are happy with the 'trickle' they get from the government in handout programs. Its a bit like being grateful someone is peeing on your head.
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Boy if this isn't crap. Are you trying to tell us that the wealthy all of a sudden started to work harder or they became smarter and that all workers became dumber and worked less to explain the increase in the disparity of wealth. Your logic has left the gravitational pull of logic.
 
jbander said:
Boy if this isn't crap. Are you trying to tell us that the wealthy all of a sudden started to work harder or they became smarter and that all workers became dumber and worked less to explain the increase in the disparity of wealth. Your logic has left the gravitational pull of logic.
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Not 'all'. Just 47% or so. You know...those that run to food stamps, welfare, disability...and all the other slop in the government trough.

Leftist should feel shame at the reality that they piss themselves about their own failures and blame everyone BUT themselves...and meanwhile we have illegal immigrants that come here with noting...often less than nothing...and manage to find th life sustaining work that leftists insist dont exist. Leftists SHOULD feel shame. Perhaps the greatest tragedy of all is...they dont.
 
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jbander said:
Hate parties continued 35 years of ignorance about their attempted destruction of American Capitalism and the country itself. just ignore it.
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this is why we ignore liberal rants like yours.
 
jbander said:
Which changes what, that Reagan trickle down wasn't a complete lie.or that all the increased wealth since that time has only gone to the top. Sorry buddy your wrong on both counts. I also have no idea what your wealth increase in the 70's have to do with anything , the trickle down lie started in early 81.
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Anytime you show me a person who is really poor - I will list various reasons (real reasons) why this is. And anytime you show me a person who is really rich, again I will list various reasons why this is. You can't simply say that because the rich get richer it is somehow someone's fault but their own. And the same is true with the poor. I know it isn't a fair statement to say we are all born with the same opportunities. That just is how it is and sorry to hurt your feelings but there is nothing wrong with this. Rich kids born to rich parents have more opportunities to be rich themselves. Same with the poor. Our country is founded on the belief that everyone makes their own opportunities as the grow. I don't subscribe to the same philosophy that you do that the rich don't deserve to be rich or that everyone should earn the same amount. I didn't grow up with a silver spoon, but I did just fine for myself. I'm very proud of my accomplishments and they don't include me being rich. But, I don't hate or begrudge those who are. It's like saying that someone who is taller than I or skinner than I or prettier than I has an unfair advantage. In many ways they do but I'm not asking the fairy god mother to make us all tall, skinny and beautiful for the sake of fairness.
 
KLATTU said:
Hard to say since there is no such thing as trickle down. It's a left wing invention., thus it can be anything you want it to be. For example, if your definition of trickle down is that average income should rise in relation to income of the top 1% ,then there isn't much of a trickle down, is there? Neat trick!Arguing against a position nobody has.

trickle-down economics is a complete caricature of the original arguments supporting economic growth. No economist has ever argued that in order to make a poor person richer you should make a rich person richer first. Economists have, however, argued that economic growth can make us all better off, whether we are rich or poor.

So why has this trickle-down nonsense persisted for so long? Perhaps because it sets the parameters of debate around redistribution, focussing solely on inequalities in wealth, rather than inequalities in capabilities. If wealth is not trickling down naturally through voluntary processes, then it is up to the government to intervene to ensure it does.

However, there is a much better way to deal with inequalities. Instead of trying to correct inequalities through redistribution, we should ensure that everybody has a chance to participate in our growing economy. First and foremost, this means making sure people acquire the right capabilities and education.
The trickle down straw man | Kiwiblog
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Then I assume you are against Trump trying to protect manufacturing and coal jobs through taxes and tariffs and throwing out immigrants?
 
ataraxia said:
Where is the trickle down here? This graph is since the 1980s. It's been a few decades now, so we would be expecting to see SOMETHING:

View attachment 67214688
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Becasue stupid people keep interfering with the process. Also, your graph is DESIGNED to show things as you want them to be seen and not as they are. A accurate (and admittedly nearly impossible to get) representation would be to show what those numbers would look like with and without the impact of putting more money in the hands of the sector. Common sense would say that they'd be FAR worse, but that's my opinion... The point is that just showing what is does not show the impact, since it fails to show the difference between what would have happen with and without.
 
jbander said:
But I honestly never thought that it would be taken over by hate and lies. The President says something ignore it, there is a 90% chance it's a lie. Republican congress members say something, ignore it it is 75% chance that it is a lie. It's simple, everything this party has done and will do in the future is to transfer the new wealth to the top , This wealth has all gone to to top since the trickle down lie 35 years ago. I wonder what people thought was going to happen when people gained massive wealth with a 70% tax rate, that then was dropped by this countries number 1 idiot president Reagan to 28%. And the 15% tax on investments would suggest that investment is more deserving then real work. This idiotic investment tax rate was made for the uber wealthy , in fact over 50% of this tax break goes to 1/10 of 1 % of the population. It's there dream come true.
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You have made no effort to actually understand conservatives, this is why your opinion is so fubar.
 
EvaPeron said:
Anytime you show me a person who is really poor - I will list various reasons (real reasons) why this is. And anytime you show me a person who is really rich, again I will list various reasons why this is. You can't simply say that because the rich get richer it is somehow someone's fault but their own. And the same is true with the poor. I know it isn't a fair statement to say we are all born with the same opportunities. That just is how it is and sorry to hurt your feelings but there is nothing wrong with this. Rich kids born to rich parents have more opportunities to be rich themselves. Same with the poor. Our country is founded on the belief that everyone makes their own opportunities as the grow. I don't subscribe to the same philosophy that you do that the rich don't deserve to be rich or that everyone should earn the same amount. I didn't grow up with a silver spoon, but I did just fine for myself. I'm very proud of my accomplishments and they don't include me being rich. But, I don't hate or begrudge those who are. It's like saying that someone who is taller than I or skinner than I or prettier than I has an unfair advantage. In many ways they do but I'm not asking the fairy god mother to make us all tall, skinny and beautiful for the sake of fairness.
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If wealth were measured by excuses for failure, leftists would all be Bill Gates.
 
jbander said:
First you don't know what your talking about, I don't care what you want ,I only care what the politicians you vote in do. There has never been a time in history,that I can see, that people have voted more against their best interest then the hate party does now. The money in the private sector drives the markets exactly the same as your tax dollars being spent by the government. I'll tell you a secret the dollar in the private sector is worth the same as the dollar spent by government. I know You hate that fact but there is no way to get around it. I know you will try though. But it will be gibberish.
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Being as you seem to be the one in this conversation who's fluent in gibberish, I'll just have to take your word on that...
 
jbander said:
The point is not how the economy is doing, this thread is about the disparity in income. During Obama's presidency we had the highest profits in history, the highest GDP in history and the highest proportion of gross that was profit in history.
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No, this thread is another liberal temper-tantrum.
 
EvaPeron said:
Anytime you show me a person who is really poor - I will list various reasons (real reasons) why this is. And anytime you show me a person who is really rich, again I will list various reasons why this is. You can't simply say that because the rich get richer it is somehow someone's fault but their own. And the same is true with the poor. I know it isn't a fair statement to say we are all born with the same opportunities. That just is how it is and sorry to hurt your feelings but there is nothing wrong with this. Rich kids born to rich parents have more opportunities to be rich themselves.
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People look to government for a sense of justice, or fairness. Out in nature, where everything is left free, there is no fairness. The strong prosper and thrive while the weak and vulnerable are eaten for lunch. That's just the facts of nature and life. It's survival of the fittest- because that's how Darwinism works out in the jungle. But the reason humans created civil societies with a rule of law and systems of justice was because they were not happy with how this worked in nature. They thought they might artificially be able to set up a better system, at least in human societies.

Does this propogate weakness in human civil societies, in a way that Darwinism weeds it out in nature? Maybe what we should be doing is getting rid of all this liberal big government concepts of justice and law and order and fairness altogether?
 
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VanceMack said:
If wealth were measured by excuses for failure, leftists would all be Bill Gates.
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So that means all Trump supporters today are leftists, because they are really the ones left behind in their failure to keep up with modern economies. And now they want The Donald to use his big government muscle to tax and tariff the big bad corporations to protect their worthless jobs and livelihoods.
 
ataraxia said:
Then I assume you are against Trump trying to protect manufacturing and coal jobs through taxes and tariffs and throwing out immigrants?
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Tariffs should only be imposed on products from nations that impose unequal trade relationships or on products produced out of the country by US businesses.

As for the 'immigrants'...no one is opposed to legal immigrants. No one is trying to oust legal immigrants. Therefore your argument makes zero sense. BUT...if we are talking about the 20-30 million illegal immigrants here just working their ass off and trying to provide for their families? I'll keep all 20-30 million of them if we can send 20-30 million lazy worthless crippled and dependent pets to that socialist utopia south o the border in a fair trade.
 
faithful_servant said:
Becasue stupid people keep interfering with the process. Also, your graph is DESIGNED to show things as you want them to be seen and not as they are. A accurate (and admittedly nearly impossible to get) representation would be to show what those numbers would look like with and without the impact of putting more money in the hands of the sector. Common sense would say that they'd be FAR worse, but that's my opinion... The point is that just showing what is does not show the impact, since it fails to show the difference between what would have happen with and without.
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I have no idea what you just said. I am just a stupid liberal. You are going to have to dumb it down for me a little more. Putting more money in the hands of WHAT sector? The fact is that the disparity is starting around 1980. And I am being told here that it's because 90% of the population got more lazy and stupid after 1980, not because of anything Reagan did or said.

Is that inaccurate?
 
VanceMack said:
Tariffs should only be imposed on products from nations that impose unequal trade relationships or on products produced out of the country by US businesses.

As for the 'immigrants'...no one is opposed to legal immigrants. No one is trying to oust legal immigrants. Therefore your argument makes zero sense. BUT...if we are talking about the 20-30 million illegal immigrants here just working their ass off and trying to provide for their families? I'll keep all 20-30 million of them if we can send 20-30 million lazy worthless crippled and dependent pets to that socialist utopia south o the border in a fair trade.
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There are no unequal tariffs from Mexico. I am afraid you have been misinformed. Do you watch Fox News or something?
 
ataraxia said:
So that means all Trump supporters today are leftists, because they are really the ones left behind in their failure to keep up with modern economies. And now they want The Donald to use his big government muscle to tax and tariff the big bad corporations to protect their worthless jobs and livelihoods.
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Anyone that lays around spewing excuses for their failures (Trump supporters or no) are just as culpable for their own failures. Yes. No one is excluded. But you have this weird and pathetic need to try to paint Trumps attempts at bringing back manufacturing jobs...and those that support those efforts...as being somehow corrupt, or evil...or... dont know...maybe you just cant get your rhetoric out of the way of your partisanship. Or your partisanship out of the way of your rhetoric. Either way....
 
And the endless lies just keep on coming, U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions was asked during his confirmation if he had been in contact with anyone in Russia , he said absolutely not. He talked to them twice last year alone under the table. A government and party of lies.
 
ataraxia said:
There are no unequal tariffs from Mexico. I am afraid you have been misinformed. Do you watch Fox News or something?
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Did you see me include mejico in my comment?
 
VanceMack said:
Anyone that lays around spewing excuses for their failures (Trump supporters or no) are just as culpable for their own failures. Yes. No one is excluded. But you have this weird and pathetic need to try to paint Trumps attempts at bringing back manufacturing jobs...and those that support those efforts...as being somehow corrupt, or evil...or... dont know...maybe you just cant get your rhetoric out of the way of your partisanship. Or your partisanship out of the way of your rhetoric. Either way....
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No the trouble is it is just bull****. The idea is great him doing it won't be. It's called lip service that he will lie ,lie ,lie about.
 
jbander said:
But I honestly never thought that it would be taken over by hate and lies. The President says something ignore it, there is a 90% chance it's a lie. Republican congress members say something, ignore it it is 75% chance that it is a lie. It's simple, everything this party has done and will do in the future is to transfer the new wealth to the top , This wealth has all gone to to top since the trickle down lie 35 years ago. I wonder what people thought was going to happen when people gained massive wealth with a 70% tax rate, that then was dropped by this countries number 1 idiot president Reagan to 28%. And the 15% tax on investments would suggest that investment is more deserving then real work. This idiotic investment tax rate was made for the uber wealthy , in fact over 50% of this tax break goes to 1/10 of 1 % of the population. It's there dream come true.
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All parties lie. The GOP is just covering it's ass right now with one set of lies. Once they see voters shifting away from them, they'll suddenly tell a new set of lies.

The D would be doing the same thing if their ass was on fire too. They are just lucky enough not to have this Putin thing hanging on them right now.
 
VanceMack said:
Not 'all'. Just 47% or so. You know...those that run to food stamps, welfare, disability...and all the other slop in the government trough.
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Fundamental. Attribution. Error.
 
jbander said:
No the trouble is it is just bull****. The idea is great him doing it won't be. It's called lip service that he will lie ,lie ,lie about.
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Yes....your blind partisanship has been well noted. Carry on.
 
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