Honesty Check: President Trump

Honesty Check: President Trump

This thread is for people with uber-strong opinions regarding President Trump.

If you are a die-hard Trump supporter, can you name one significant thing he has done or proposed that you disagree with?

If you are a die-hard Trump detractor, can you name one significant thing he has done or proposed that you agree with?

These questions go back to the beginning of his campaign, and are not limited to only his time in office thus far, and as clearly noted include things he has said / promised / proposed.

No one person and their policies are perfect. Any simple-minded person can be led to believe everything, hook, line and sinker... and any simple-minded person can prattle on about actions being the only important aspect, but actions come from words first... so if you say that literally everything he has said and done is good (or bad), then you are a liar. I will not say, "You, <insert name here>, are a liar.", of course, but it will be clear. If you cannot find something that you honestly like/dislike then you are not even trying to be honest and objective.

Same consideration goes for Obama, Bush II, Clinton, and on back. If you couldn't find something that you liked/disliked then you weren't even trying to be objective.

I will go first...

I, radcen, am an admittedly extreme Trump detractor. It's known, it's obvious, and I am adult enough to admit it. I am adult enough to own it. Knowing that, there are some things he has said/done that I do indeed like and agree with, and I can name more than just one...

1) I agree with his wanting to eliminate baseline budgeting. I don't think it will happen, Congress and both parties love it too much, but I agree with the sentiment and the rationale.

2) I agree with his wanting to deport illegal immigrants. I do not support his dumbass wall thing, however, but deporting those here illegally is long overdue.

3) I fully support his wanting NATO members to pay their "fair share". He doesn't say what that is, but I take it as per the agreement that all involved nations agreed to, 2% of GDP.

There might be even one or two more, that's just what comes to me at the moment.

How about you?

I disagree with Trump's cutting funding to PBS/NPR

I disagree with Trump hiring a military man into the Department of Homeland Security

I disagree with Trump hiring Elaine Chao as Sec of Transpo (this was before her flubbing some responses on Hannity after the SotU speech)

I disagree with Trump refusing to cut Defense Spending.

I agree with two things Trump has proposed.
1- the attempt to save American jobs and punish companies who leave the USA and then want tossed their products back here for sale.
2- Pledging money for infrastructure rebuilding and improvements.... although when he mentions public private partnerships I wonder how that sort of thing rebuilds sewers, roads, bridges, dams and other needed things.

As they always say " The devil is in the details". To date, we have seen very little of those.
In other words, he has some very good ideas, but he has done very little so far in elaborating exactly how he going to accomplish his agenda.

Vetplus40 said:

As they always say " The devil is in the details". To date, we have seen very little of those.
In other words, he has some very good ideas, but he has done very little so far in elaborating exactly how he going to accomplish his agenda.

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Not intending to go far off-topic, but that was a big thing that concerned me about Bernire Sanders during the campaign. He said a lot of good things that appealed to me, but I feared the devil was in the details. And, as the campaign wore on and he revealed some of those details, I was often right.

I don't have an extreme like or dislike of trump... In some ways he's the antithesis of what I believe, in some ways he's exactly what I wanted....

but I do feel constantly motivated to defend him, because in my opinion... there is much more than anti-Donald Trump, there is a significant political and cultural conflict that really matters;there is too much excessive and unwarranted criticism of Donald Trump with little attempt of being objective or balanced. I find that the vast majority of the media has a significant leftist bias, and that worries me, it really does.

I like his stance on Immigration and his general position that we should actually follow laws... and those who do not follow laws, ought to be punished. I wish he does more in this regard actually.

I dislike is personality, but at the same time, I like it. I think he needs to be more strategic in who he criticizes and who he doesn't. I did NOT like the Australia conversation story... that cringed me on the inside. But I love his " I don't give a ****" attitude and tell it how it is way of speaking. It seems like a lot of people would rather a silver tonged liar instead of a guy who speaks his mind informally. I really am done with silver tonged politicians..... people like the OP often state that his supporters are being "played" or manipulated, and the opposition are some kind of objectivists that can see through all the lies lol.... Donald Trump has the worst style possible for manipulating people lol, manipulators are not bombastic or so obvious(he is a manipulator, but a very bad one). People know who Donald Trump is :roll: Not many people know who the real Barrack Obama is.... or the real Hillary Clinton, or George Bush. People believe in Donald Trump because they really have no other option, he's the first politician that is addressing issues too many are scared to touch in any significant way.

I worry his good idea's will be executed poorly.

I dislike the 1 trillion infrastructure spending plan.

I wish he was even harder on China... I overall wish and hope for an Global alliance strategy economically against China and Russia. If that includes befriending Russia to separate China and Russia's bonds and future economic plans, that's great. Break up China's economy by encouraging business's to return manufacturing here OR AT THE VERY LEAST... move manufacturing to Vietnam or any other countries that can provide a economic check to China. If Mexico is useless, lets go ahead and do what we need to do. I want a strategy that makes America and it's Ally's out on top.
^^I don't feel Donald Trump has any sort of vision for any of this, and that's a big deal to me^^

In the end.... is he better than Hillary Clinton? If all he did was sit and watch TV in the Oval office from here until 2024.... yes, he is still better than Hillary.

radcen said:

Not intending to go far off-topic, but that was a big thing that concerned me about Bernire Sanders during the campaign. He said a lot of good things that appealed to me, but I feared the devil was in the details. And, as the campaign wore on and he revealed some of those details, I was often right.

Click to expand...

Exactly. Everybody thinks that an infrastructure plan would be great, but until we see exactly how it is going to be paid for, we wont know for sure.
Same for "The Wall", tax cuts, health care, etc., etc.

radcen said:

Honesty Check: President Trump

This thread is for people with uber-strong opinions regarding President Trump.

If you are a die-hard Trump supporter, can you name one significant thing he has done or proposed that you disagree with?

If you are a die-hard Trump detractor, can you name one significant thing he has done or proposed that you agree with?

These questions go back to the beginning of his campaign, and are not limited to only his time in office thus far, and as clearly noted include things he has said / promised / proposed.

No one person and their policies are perfect. Any simple-minded person can be led to believe everything, hook, line and sinker... and any simple-minded person can prattle on about actions being the only important aspect, but actions come from words first... so if you say that literally everything he has said and done is good (or bad), then you are a liar. I will not say, "You, <insert name here>, are a liar.", of course, but it will be clear. If you cannot find something that you honestly like/dislike then you are not even trying to be honest and objective.

Same consideration goes for Obama, Bush II, Clinton, and on back. If you couldn't find something that you liked/disliked then you weren't even trying to be objective.

I will go first...

I, radcen, am an admittedly extreme Trump detractor. It's known, it's obvious, and I am adult enough to admit it. I am adult enough to own it. Knowing that, there are some things he has said/done that I do indeed like and agree with, and I can name more than just one...

1) I agree with his wanting to eliminate baseline budgeting. I don't think it will happen, Congress and both parties love it too much, but I agree with the sentiment and the rationale.

2) I agree with his wanting to deport illegal immigrants. I do not support his dumbass wall thing, however, but deporting those here illegally is long overdue.

3) I fully support his wanting NATO members to pay their "fair share". He doesn't say what that is, but I take it as per the agreement that all involved nations agreed to, 2% of GDP.

There might be even one or two more, that's just what comes to me at the moment.

How about you?

Click to expand...

I wish he was tweaking Obamacare instead of a full repeal. We KNOW the foibles of what we've got and correcting them piecemeal ought to be possible. Maybe not, but one would think so. I also wish we were at least considering the Medicare model. Medicare insures pre-existing conditions. Not combining with Medicare, mind you, but same model. Premiums that make sense.

celticwar17 said:

I don't have an extreme like or dislike of trump... In some ways he's the antithesis of what I believe, in some ways he's exactly what I wanted....

but I do feel constantly motivated to defend him, because in my opinion... there is much more than anti-Donald Trump, there is a significant political and cultural conflict that really matters;there is too much excessive and unwarranted criticism of Donald Trump with little attempt of being objective or balanced. I find that the vast majority of the media has a significant leftist bias, and that worries me, it really does.

I like his stance on Immigration and his general position that we should actually follow laws... and those who do not follow laws, ought to be punished. I wish he does more in this regard actually.

I dislike is personality, but at the same time, I like it. I think he needs to be more strategic in who he criticizes and who he doesn't. I did NOT like the Australia conversation story... that cringed me on the inside. But I love his " I don't give a ****" attitude and tell it how it is way of speaking. It seems like a lot of people would rather a silver tonged liar instead of a guy who speaks his mind informally. I really am done with silver tonged politicians..... people like the OP often state that his supporters are being "played" or manipulated, and the opposition are some kind of objectivists that can see through all the lies lol.... Donald Trump has the worst style possible for manipulating people lol, manipulators are not bombastic or so obvious(he is a manipulator, but a very bad one). People know who Donald Trump is :roll: Not many people know who the real Barrack Obama is.... or the real Hillary Clinton, or George Bush. People believe in Donald Trump because they really have no other option, he's the first politician that is addressing issues too many are scared to touch in any significant way.

I worry his good idea's will be executed poorly.

I dislike the 1 trillion infrastructure spending plan.

I wish he was even harder on China... I overall wish and hope for an Global alliance strategy economically against China and Russia. If that includes befriending Russia to separate China and Russia's bonds and future economic plans, that's great. Break up China's economy by encouraging business's to return manufacturing here OR AT THE VERY LEAST... move manufacturing to Vietnam or any other countries that can provide a economic check to China. If Mexico is useless, lets go ahead and do what we need to do. I want a strategy that makes America and it's Ally's out on top.
^^I don't feel Donald Trump has any sort of vision for any of this, and that's a big deal to me^^

In the end.... is he better than Hillary Clinton? If all he did was sit and watch TV in the Oval office from here until 2024.... yes, he is still better than Hillary.

Click to expand...

You point out why he is a master manipulator. He's so over-the-top, and as such, he appeals to the inner part of all of us that wants to be like him. We all want to "tell it like it is". We all want to "give the status quo the finger". That's what gets many people. He''s doing what we all would really like to do.

Too many people are enamored with the rebellion over the substance and losing sight of how said rebellion is potentially harmful in the long run.

All the reasons I dislike Donald Trump have nothing to do with his Presidency, those reasons where just solidified just prior and during the Barack Obama Presidency and during The Primaries. At age 70, I no more expect Trump to wake up one morning and be a different person, not more that I would.

... and those people who say give him a chance, I say sure, I'll give him just as much of a chance Barack Obama was given.

MaggieD said:

I wish he was tweaking Obamacare instead of a full repeal. We KNOW the foibles of what we've got and correcting them piecemeal ought to be possible. Maybe not, but one would think so. I also wish we were at least considering the Medicare model. Medicare insures pre-existing conditions. Not combining with Medicare, mind you, but same model. Premiums that make sense.

Click to expand...

I feel like the Reps (not just Trump, and maybe even not really Trump) inadvertently backed themselves into a corner regarding Obamacare. For almost 8 years the mantra was "Repeal Obamacare, Repeal Obamacare, Repeal Obamacare", and then all of a sudden they got put in a place where it's time to put up or shut up and they're all acting light the deer in the headlights not knowing what to do.

I heard on the radio this morning that there are factions within the Rep Party, half want a tweaking, half want full-blown repeal.

radcen said:

You point out why he is a master manipulator. He's so over-the-top, and as such, he appeals to the inner part of all of us that wants to be like him. We all want to "tell it like it is". We all want to "give the status quo the finger". That's what gets many people. He''s doing what we all would really like to do.

Too many people are enamored with the rebellion over the substance and losing sight of how said rebellion is potentially harmful in the long run.

Click to expand...

No one is fooled... we all know. Or at least most do, it's for the very reasons I said. You can't say it's manipulation when people want to back him for what he's "rebeling" against, because they have no other alternative.

Are you being manipulated by the only water salesmen in the desert? He is quite rude after-all....I don't think you should drink it, he's just trying to manipulate you to buy. But the guy over there selling poison... you should drink that instead, he's nice.

celticwar17 said:

No one is fooled... we all know. Or at least most do, it's for the very reasons I said. You can't say it's manipulation when people want to back him for what he's "rebeling" against, because they have no other alternative.

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The qualification at the end, "no other alternative", isn't exactly confidence instilling. If anything, it suggests desperation, not honest agreement or support.

radcen said:

The qualification at the end, "no other alternative", isn't exactly confidence instilling. If anything, it suggests desperation, not honest agreement or support.

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I think that's what everyone has been saying... a lot of American people are in desperation in a lot of ways, because politicians do not represent them. The system doesn't represent them.

Trump is doing some good things.... we still have checks and balances. And he's better than the poison Clinton would have been serving.

radcen said:

The qualification at the end, "no other alternative", isn't exactly confidence instilling. If anything, it suggests desperation, not honest agreement or support.

Click to expand...

Most Trump supporters I have seen are aware of his flaws.... they are bombarded with them every day. I think there is a clear leftist bias in the media that can make people very defensive.

celticwar17 said:

Most Trump supporters I have seen are aware of his flaws.... they are bombarded with them every day. I think there is a clear leftist bias in the media that can make people very defensive.

Click to expand...

That's the problem. Too many on the left feel honor bound to damn President Trump for EVERYTHING whether or not it is something they would have strongly supported had it been proposed by President Obama or Hillary Clinton.

And there are a lot of us on the right who look for ways to defend the President when the left is damning him, even if we wouldn't have approved of something had President Obama or Hillary Clinton done the same thing.

But the President's tone last night was exactly what we all should be shooting for--non partisan, look for solutions to problems, beieve that our problems are fixable if we all pull together. Give credit where credit is due, complain when it is justified, offer constructive criticism where warranted as nobody is going to be right 100% of the time and there is always some trial and error, two steps back now and then when tackling enormous problems.

The extreme partisanship and/or dogmatic ideology accompanied by deliberate toxic vitriol is highly destructive and, IMO, is a huge contributor to many of our national problems.

celticwar17 said:

Most Trump supporters I have seen are aware of his flaws.... they are bombarded with them every day. I think there is a clear leftist bias in the media that can make people very defensive.

Click to expand...

You are probably correct that most are aware, but there are a great many who are loathe to admit a single instance, and they're very vocal about it. I suspect that they fear it will be used against them, but all it really does is make their entire position appear dishonest and poorly thought out, and hence questionable.

radcen said:

Honesty Check: President Trump

This thread is for people with uber-strong opinions regarding President Trump.

If you are a die-hard Trump supporter, can you name one significant thing he has done or proposed that you disagree with?

If you are a die-hard Trump detractor, can you name one significant thing he has done or proposed that you agree with?

These questions go back to the beginning of his campaign, and are not limited to only his time in office thus far, and as clearly noted include things he has said / promised / proposed.

No one person and their policies are perfect. Any simple-minded person can be led to believe everything, hook, line and sinker... and any simple-minded person can prattle on about actions being the only important aspect, but actions come from words first... so if you say that literally everything he has said and done is good (or bad), then you are a liar. I will not say, "You, <insert name here>, are a liar.", of course, but it will be clear. If you cannot find something that you honestly like/dislike then you are not even trying to be honest and objective.

Same consideration goes for Obama, Bush II, Clinton, and on back. If you couldn't find something that you liked/disliked then you weren't even trying to be objective.

Click to expand...

I dispute your contention. I believe it is quite possible to agree totally with what Trump wants to do and it is quite possible to approve of everything he has done to date...without being labeled non-objective or a liar. Now...if you are looking for nitpicky stuff like "I don't like his tweets" or "I don't like his hair", I'd counter with "I don't sweat the small ****." and "I keep the big picture in my focus". If you think that makes one a liar, okay...your opinion...everyone has one. I just disagree with yours.

I will go first...

I, radcen, am an admittedly extreme Trump detractor. It's known, it's obvious, and I am adult enough to admit it. I am adult enough to own it. Knowing that, there are some things he has said/done that I do indeed like and agree with, and I can name more than just one...

1) I agree with his wanting to eliminate baseline budgeting. I don't think it will happen, Congress and both parties love it too much, but I agree with the sentiment and the rationale.

2) I agree with his wanting to deport illegal immigrants. I do not support his dumbass wall thing, however, but deporting those here illegally is long overdue.

3) I fully support his wanting NATO members to pay their "fair share". He doesn't say what that is, but I take it as per the agreement that all involved nations agreed to, 2% of GDP.

There might be even one or two more, that's just what comes to me at the moment.

How about you?

Click to expand...

It goes without saying that I am an adult. I've been one for a long, long time.

Early on, my view of Trump was that he was a lesser evil than Hillary. I knew I would be voting for him long before the election because of that. As I listened to him and read his positions, I found myself agreeing with him so...come voting time...I felt even more justified in making my choice.

Since his inauguration, I've seen him take exactly the actions he said he wanted to do and that he would do...albeit, some were tempered for political purposes. He has NOT given up or gone against anything he campaigned for. So...with the big picture in mind, I can honestly and objectively say that everything he has said he wants to do and everything he has done is good.

Now...if you insist on me being nitpicky about the small ****, there IS something I don't like: He shouldn't have fired Flynn. He should have told the politicians...on both sides..., the media, the talking potato heads, etc, to put up or shut the **** up and go pound sand. However, I recognize that Trump made a political decision about all that and went with the action he chose. So it goes...

I am a supporter of Trump and mainly I am supportive of his shaking the hell out of washington on both sides, to show them how to at least ATTEMPT getting things your constituents want done, DONE.

I am against his justice departments stance on not legalizing marijuana.
I disagree with not wanting to cut defense spending.
if they try to cut Nasa even more , I will be quite upset as I am a strong supporter of all the space initiatives, both public and private.
I am undecided and not on board as yet on a broad ease up on regulatory law and wish he would be more specific. if we need to de-regulate banking and mortgage law to re-instate trust, we need to do it in a smart way that won't allow them to screw over america again. hopefully he has got that in control.
I am also undecided on the Obamacare repeal until they lay out a well planned proposal to replace it.

what I do like is that thus far what he said he would try to do, he has. more politicians could learn from that model , if nothing else.

celticwar17 said:

Trump is doing some good things.... we still have checks and balances. And he's better than the poison Clinton would have been serving.

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Typical useless banter. Void of any substance whatsoever.:roll:

Neither you nor I have ANY idea whether Clinton would have done better at this stage of her presidency than Trump has of his. This is exacty the type of "close-minded" nonsense that has created our divisive political climate.

Vetplus40 said:

Typical useless banter. Void of any substance whatsoever.:roll:

Neither you nor I have ANY idea whether Clinton would have done better at this stage of her presidency than Trump has of his. This is exacty the type of "close-minded" nonsense that has created our divisive political climate.

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I am 100% percent positive... you seem ignorant of the things she supported behind the scenes

celticwar17 said:

I am 100% percent positive... you seem ignorant of the things she supported behind the scenes

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Since you have no crystal ball with which to see the future, your opinions are simple mindless conjecture and nothing more.

Simply put, with an emphasis on "simple:, You have no idea what Clinton might or might not have done. That said, she likely wouldn't have had a MUSLIM ban shoved up her rear end like Trump did...........