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Ryan says "fixing" Social Security and Medicare will solve deficit problem!

independentusa

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Paul Ryan on TV says we need to "fix" Social Security and Medicare to solve deficit problem. DO you think he is right? Well, you are wrong. Social Security and Medicare taxes and payments are not part of the general budget. Reducing them might in the long run change how long the programs can operate at no loss, but they will do nothing to solve the present deficit problem. That is unless you roll the present Medicare and Socail Security tax payments into the general revenues and then reduce Medicare and Social Security expenses. The GOP and Dems alike have borrowed money, approximately 2.6 trillion dollars, from the Medicare and Social Security revenues to help balance past budgets. Maybe instead of paying it back they will just say it was always just general tax money and tell all those who paid in to live with it, or really live without it. What I can not really understand is how the people who are asking the questions on thses so called news programs can know so little about what they are asking.
 
I'd start by tightening SS disability, and start re examining cases to see if you can put the under 62 cases back to work. There are too many SSID's out there living on my dime who should be working.
 
SS disability should never have been included in the SS system. SHould have been a system of its own.
 
Paul Ryan on TV says we need to "fix" Social Security and Medicare to solve deficit problem. DO you think he is right? Well, you are wrong. Social Security and Medicare taxes and payments are not part of the general budget. Reducing them might in the long run change how long the programs can operate at no loss, but they will do nothing to solve the present deficit problem. That is unless you roll the present Medicare and Socail Security tax payments into the general revenues and then reduce Medicare and Social Security expenses. The GOP and Dems alike have borrowed money, approximately 2.6 trillion dollars, from the Medicare and Social Security revenues to help balance past budgets. Maybe instead of paying it back they will just say it was always just general tax money and tell all those who paid in to live with it, or really live without it. What I can not really understand is how the people who are asking the questions on thses so called news programs can know so little about what they are asking.

I haven't cranked the numbers, but depending on the solution he is thinking of, it could certainly go a long way in that direction.
 
AARP is Running Full Length Commercials everyday showing Candidate Donald j Trump "promising" his supporters not to touch Medicare and Social Security at his Pep-Rallies.

Brilliant move ...
 
You do realize from whhat I wrote that there is no connection between the SS and Medicare funds and the general budget? So even if you reduced the SS and Medicare payments it would have no effect on the deficit? You do understand right?
 
Writing anything to a man whose whole life is based on lies really does no good. He will do whateveer Bannon tells him to.
 
AARP is Running Full Length Commercials everyday showing Candidate Donald j Trump "promising" his supporters not to touch Medicare and Social Security at his Pep-Rallies.

Brilliant move ...

Yes it is. If he "crawfishes" on those promises, his own words will eat him alive.
 
Yes it is. If he "crawfishes" on those promises, his own words will eat him alive.

Just like Obama said you can Keep your Doctors, then The GOP Torpedoed Insurance Providers mandates
 
Paul Ryan on TV says we need to "fix" Social Security and Medicare to solve deficit problem. DO you think he is right? Well, you are wrong.
A bit disingenuous to ask a question when you already know the answer, isn't it? :mrgreen:

However, Ryan is largely correct. SS and Medicare make up somewhere north of 60% of the budget. Defense is another 15%; interest is 6%; VA is 4%. That is a huge swath of the budget to declare either untouchable, or slotted for an increase.


Social Security and Medicare taxes and payments are not part of the general budget. Reducing them might in the long run change how long the programs can operate at no loss, but they will do nothing to solve the present deficit problem. That is unless you roll the present Medicare and Socail Security tax payments into the general revenues and then reduce Medicare and Social Security expenses.
Segregating payroll taxes from general revenues is essentially meaningless. It's a fig leaf, designed to fool Americans into thinking those programs are not really safety nets.

SS/Medicare are pay-as-you-go, meaning the payments collected this year are spent as benefits in this year. For decades, there was a surplus, and this surplus was by law required to be loaned to the rest of the government. The loans essentially match inflation, and the federal government has NEVER defaulted on those intergovernmental loans.

What's happening is those programs are running a deficit, and are drawing down the Trust Fund. Thus if we don't address that spending now, then by 2032 or so it will be pulling from general revenues. Hence the problem.


The GOP and Dems alike have borrowed money, approximately 2.6 trillion dollars, from the Medicare and Social Security revenues to help balance past budgets.
Incorrect. By law, the Trust Fund was required to be loaned to the rest of the government. Every penny borrowed from the Trust Fund has been repaid on time, with interest. Did I mention that this is basically a figment to fool Americans?


Basically, the REAL issue is that there are too many older people, and fewer younger workers, to support the system the same way it did in the past. That means our options are:

1) We can increase taxes (which Republicans don't want to do)

2) We can cut benefits (which for the most part, Democrats don't want to do)

3) We can switch to a Australian-style annuation system (which will cost far less in the long term, but will be phenomenally expensive to implement)

4) We can bring in a large number of younger immigrants to balance out the demographics and boost the economy (good luck getting that passed)

None of which is pleasant. Which is, of course, why Trump wants to keep kicking the can down the road. Ryan, in contrast, is trying to work on this now -- as it will be much uglier if we wait another 4, 8, or 16 years.


What I can not really understand is how the people who are asking the questions on thses so called news programs can know so little about what they are asking.
They don't always go into depth, but generally speaking they know what they're talking about. In this case, Ryan does as well.
 
Simply put Ryan's math has never worked. You can spin how to add "2+2" all you want. At the end of the day, it will always add up to "4".
 
Okay, if you think that the Medicare and Socail Security taxes are just another part of the general budget it becomes a tax "only" on the middle and lower income tax payers as it stops about 110 thousand. If what you believe is true than we should absolutely put the tax on all income and that certainly would go a long way to closing the deficit gap. And what you say about repayment is bull****e. Yes they pay the debt when it comes due with interest, but it borrows more each time than it pays back, just like the rest of the debt. SO as of now it owes the system about 2.6 trillion dollars.
 
Well, of course we could fix our deficit problem by getting rid of things like SS, Medicare, Medicaid, etc., and maintaining everything else-as is. We'd see huge surpluses at first. However, we'd also have to not give two ****s about all the people suddenly starving and dying from preventable disease, etc., because we pulled the rug out from under them. But we have already been through times without safety nets and decided, as a society, that it rather sucked.


So much for the typical and stupid move of trying to dumb a problem down to a one factor analysis of either "more government" vs. "less government" (not that Ryan's fans recognized the dishonesty and stupidity of such maneuvering).
 
Yes it is. If he "crawfishes" on those promises, his own words will eat him alive.

Let's not underestimate the ability of Trump's supporters to spin, deny, and alter anything Trump has said. If his words haven't "eaten him alive" by now, nothing he says ever will.
 
Well, of course we could fix our deficit problem by getting rid of things like SS, Medicare, Medicaid, etc., and maintaining everything else-as is. We'd see huge surpluses at first. However, we'd also have to not give two ****s about all the people suddenly starving and dying from preventable disease, etc., because we pulled the rug out from under them. But we have already been through times without safety nets and decided, as a society, that it rather sucked.


So much for the typical and stupid move of trying to dumb a problem down to a one factor analysis of either "more government" vs. "less government" (not that Ryan's fans recognized the dishonesty and stupidity of such maneuvering).

They can cut me a check now for all the money I've put in.

Or The Federal Government can simply tell those Millionaire Members in Congress to forgot theirs, along with their Government Backed Healthcare.

That will pay for a lot of people who need it.
 
Paul Ryan on TV says we need to "fix" Social Security and Medicare to solve deficit problem. DO you think he is right? Well, you are wrong. Social Security and Medicare taxes and payments are not part of the general budget. Reducing them might in the long run change how long the programs can operate at no loss, but they will do nothing to solve the present deficit problem. That is unless you roll the present Medicare and Socail Security tax payments into the general revenues and then reduce Medicare and Social Security expenses. The GOP and Dems alike have borrowed money, approximately 2.6 trillion dollars, from the Medicare and Social Security revenues to help balance past budgets. Maybe instead of paying it back they will just say it was always just general tax money and tell all those who paid in to live with it, or really live without it. What I can not really understand is how the people who are asking the questions on thses so called news programs can know so little about what they are asking.

Let's start by paying back the IOU's that make up SS funds. Instead of deducting payroll taxes from the poorest Americans, let's make up the difference by cashing in those treasury notes and paying back the SS funds.

That would be a real reform.
 
Let's not underestimate the ability of Trump's supporters to spin, deny, and alter anything Trump has said. If his words haven't "eaten him alive" by now, nothing he says ever will.

The hard core supporters (what I call the redneck dumba$$ clan) will always support him. Those are the idiots that scream at pro wrestling matches thinking it is real.
However, I do believe that they are a small minority of his supporters. The voters who felt left behind will gradually abandon their support if he cannot deliver what he has promised. POTUS' education into the reality of Washington politics starts tonight.
 
Paul Ryan wants to change Medicare so that it is a "premium support" system. The government would give each person a sum of money say 8500/yr to buy private insurance. The problem with this is that it INCREASES costs instead of decreasing them.

Medicare pays out to providers about 97% of what it takes in, private insurance pays out 80 to 85% under the ACA, this difference is waste to the consumer. Some of the pre ACA plans only paid out 50%!!!! In addition, the fact that there are thousands of private plans creates all kinds of extra work (cost) on the provider end (doctors, hospitals, etc) and the insurer end. Private insurance companies employ thousands of people just to help providers and consumers untangle the mess of figuring out if someone is covered or not, a complete waste of money.

Medicare also gets better rates from providers than many insurance plans.

Bottom line is Ryan's plan will increase costs and dump them on seniors. I don't have the source anymore, but in the past when this was proposed, medicare was paying 8000/yr per senior, the government would provide a premium support payment of 8500/yr and the CBO estimated that to procure identical coverage on the private market would cost seniors 12,000/yr. I haven't seen any proposed numbers on Ryan's new plan yet. In this case why would we want to increase costs from 8000/yr to 12,000/yr unless your motivation is to make insurance companies happy.
 
I say go for it. Ryan can stand up in front of all the retired Trump supporters and preach his "freedom" plan. I bet the same people eating it up when it only impacts the ACA will riot.
 
Ryan says "fixing" Social Security and Medicare will solve deficit problem!

asshole has wanted to privatize these programs for years. it's possible and even likely that those of us under fifty or fifty five will be screwed. they won't screw over senior citizens because they vote, though, so at least current recipients will be ok.
 
The hard core supporters (what I call the redneck dumba$$ clan) will always support him. Those are the idiots that scream at pro wrestling matches thinking it is real.
However, I do believe that they are a small minority of his supporters. The voters who felt left behind will gradually abandon their support if he cannot deliver what he has promised. POTUS' education into the reality of Washington politics starts tonight.

I used to think they were just a small minority of his supporters, but then he won the election. They must have been more numerous than I imagined they were.

But, I hope you're right.
 
I'd start by tightening SS disability, and start re examining cases to see if you can put the under 62 cases back to work. There are too many SSID's out there living on my dime who should be working.

Well some of the self declared mentally disabled ones can now carry guns so lots of job opportunities like security guard may have opened up for them.
 
Paul Ryan on TV says we need to "fix" Social Security and Medicare to solve deficit problem. DO you think he is right? Well, you are wrong. Social Security and Medicare taxes and payments are not part of the general budget. Reducing them might in the long run change how long the programs can operate at no loss, but they will do nothing to solve the present deficit problem. That is unless you roll the present Medicare and Socail Security tax payments into the general revenues and then reduce Medicare and Social Security expenses. The GOP and Dems alike have borrowed money, approximately 2.6 trillion dollars, from the Medicare and Social Security revenues to help balance past budgets. Maybe instead of paying it back they will just say it was always just general tax money and tell all those who paid in to live with it, or really live without it. What I can not really understand is how the people who are asking the questions on thses so called news programs can know so little about what they are asking.

The problem is that you haven't studied the program to understand its problems.

Ryan is wrong, but so are you.

While Social Security is not part of the general budget (HI is), Social Security and Medicare get general fund subsidies. Those add to the deficit. They do not add 500 billion though.

"The GOP and Dems alike have borrowed money, approximately 2.6 trillion dollars, from the Medicare and Social Security revenues to help balance past budgets. "

That is a contradictory statement. If the government is borrowing money, it is not balancing budgets. That is financing the budget gap.

No one is suggesting that the 2.8 trillion in the trust funds will not be repaid. The concern is what happens when the surplus is gone.
 
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