Analysis: Trayvon Martin’s Death Still Fuels a Movement Five Years Later

Praxas said:

And with that, they take a risk of a Trayvon situation happening. Just because it hasn't happened to someone doesn't mean the risk isn't there.

Click to expand...

Especially if they are following a bad guy who will fight rather than talk. I did service work for a lot of wealthy people and have been confronted many times for being on someones property and even in their house by concerned neighbors, neighborhood watch, security and the police. A lot of times the people confronted me with guns. This was in Texas yet where you do not have to be the homeowner. There was never an incident because I was not guilty of anything and I did not do anything stupid like fight with the person confronting me. I have set off alarms and had people confront me with guns because the homeowner did not set the security code properly for me. Again no problem because I didn't turn it into a problem.

The day it becomes illegal or wrong for We the People to protect ourselves or our neighborhoods is the day I need to find another country to live in.

Tettsuo said:

Those are all assumptions based on nothing but your bias. Zimmerman getting his ass kicked could simply be an asshole that couldn't fight, but still started one. I'm asking what was Martin doing at that time requiring Zimmerman to follow him.

Click to expand...

If Martin wanted to fight he would not have called the police. I have been a police officer and also around trouble makers who start fights. They do not call the police. Get real.

blackjack50 said:

Analysis: Trayvon Martin'''s Death Still Fuels a Movement Five Years Later - NBC News

Well it seems to me the that NBC is still trying to stir the pot with racial tension. I get the idea behind being upset about the Trayvon incident. But does anyone feel it is a bit...inappropriate to mention him in the same breath as Emit Till? Or Michael Brown?

This article wants us to understand that there is underlying racial tensions in America. You think we don't see it? Of course we do. How can we not? But you want us to ignore the set of personal responsibility as well? We can't do that.

We have to ask ourselves why are blacks so disproportionately represented in the crime and murder statistics? What places them there year in and out? And how much control do they have as a group? What can "they" do? And what exactly are people proposing "we" do? Do they just want us to give more handouts in the form of welfare? Are we supposed to ignore a crime committed by a black kid? Or an adult? Does any of that just breed more success? True success?

So I will leave it at that for the sake of open ended discussions.

Ps

Stand your ground law was never used to defend Zimmerman. Its place within the context of that court room drama is only due to an ignorant media who blared it at every turn to sway a case whose decision they had already decided the outcome on.

Pps

I will add that this above article is from the news agency that brought to you edited audio from the Zimmerman 911 call. Editing that clearly had 1 purpose.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

I don't pretend to know all the dynamics at play, but I can see it in only one way:

Slavery ended more than 150 years ago. Segregation ended more than 60 years ago. Virtually 100% of the young black thugs and hoodlums--these are a small minority among all but they get almost all of the press--rioting, looting, burning, destroying, committing assault and battery were born into an era without discrimination and full of promise and opportunity for all.

But unlike their peers who do what is necessary for anybody to succeed and therefore do succeed and achieve significant goals, the thugs and hoodlums buy into the dogma of the race baiters, both black and white, who promote racism for fun and profit. They are angry, full of a sense of entitlement and privilege that they feel is being denied to them, and they don't need much of a push to justify responding with violence.

The race baiters, for whatever motive but mostly for self serving reasons, are more than happy to provide that push.

So we will have the misconceptions about Trayvon, Cambridge, Ferguson etc. etc. etc. brought up again and again and again by the race baiters who intend to keep the race war going as long as they can.

Mason66 said:

You don't need training to follow somebody.

It is good that Martin knew Zimmerman was following him. That made sure Martin did not break into a house.

Click to expand...

It was very close to going the other way and Zimmerman being shot with his own gun. That is apparent from his testimony. Training while not required is usually important even handling power tools unless you are stupid.

Mason66 said:

Kicking you ass and trying to kill you are two different things.

Click to expand...

NONSENSE! How do you, the person getting his ass kicked, know the difference?!

And, you didn't answer the question.

PIPEWRENCH said:

If Martin wanted to fight he would not have called the police. I have been a police officer and also around trouble makers who start fights. They do not call the police. Get real.

Click to expand...

I assume you meant to say Zimmerman, not Martin called the police.

Zimmerman wanted to be a cop. That's why he took it upon himself to go after a guy simply walking in his neighborhood.

Tettsuo said:

You're joking, right? Have you ever had a fight? Things happen. Just because you got hurt, it does not mean you were the victim, it just means you lost that fight.

Zimmerman claimed he was NOT following Martin. Do you really think that's true? Do you really think that Martin hid behind a bush and attacked Zimmerman who was wandering around NOT looking for him? Or even better, Martin was peeking into people's window with a jimmy in his hand (the thin sliver of metal that no one could find)... yeah right. Come on, use your head. Martin was walking and talking on the phone, which was confirmed by the records.

Zimmerman lied about many points, yet you believe him when he says Martin attacked him from behind a bush and was intent on killing him. Okay dude.

Click to expand...

Who said I believed him? Eyewitness testimony is almost always flawed and I guarantee you his account has some inaccuracies. He likely spent some time looking around that he doesn't report, got some of the details wrong, and told the story in a way that is more favorable to himself. It was near or after sunset, which is not the best lighting conditions to see things clearly. He also gave his statements after an extremely stressful situation, which can lead to odd things in terms of memory. We have some earwitness testimony but identifications by voice in these types of situations is notoriously unreliable. There are reasonable hypothetical scenarios in which either person initiated the confrontation. My personal opinion remains the same as it was at the time of the trial: there simply isn't enough evidence to convict the guy. Going all-in on a hypothetical in support of Martin is just as unreasonable as going all-in on a hypothetical saying that Trayvon purposefully sought out Zimmerman to give him a beating after noticing the guy was following him. Both parties could have taken steps to avoid the outcome. There was never enough evidence to convict Zimmerman and likely the only reason it reached trial is because politics and an emotionally-driven group of people demanded it. It sucks that it happened. It's in the past now; people need to learn what they can from it and move on.

blackjack50 said:

Analysis: Trayvon Martin'''s Death Still Fuels a Movement Five Years Later - NBC News

Well it seems to me the that NBC is still trying to stir the pot with racial tension. I get the idea behind being upset about the Trayvon incident. But does anyone feel it is a bit...inappropriate to mention him in the same breath as Emit Till? Or Michael Brown?

This article wants us to understand that there is underlying racial tensions in America. You think we don't see it? Of course we do. How can we not? But you want us to ignore the set of personal responsibility as well? We can't do that.

We have to ask ourselves why are blacks so disproportionately represented in the crime and murder statistics? What places them there year in and out? And how much control do they have as a group? What can "they" do? And what exactly are people proposing "we" do? Do they just want us to give more handouts in the form of welfare? Are we supposed to ignore a crime committed by a black kid? Or an adult? Does any of that just breed more success? True success?

So I will leave it at that for the sake of open ended discussions.

Ps

Stand your ground law was never used to defend Zimmerman. Its place within the context of that court room drama is only due to an ignorant media who blared it at every turn to sway a case whose decision they had already decided the outcome on.

Pps

I will add that this above article is from the news agency that brought to you edited audio from the Zimmerman 911 call. Editing that clearly had 1 purpose.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

A punk kid made a huge mistake, died, and a movement built on lies and fueled by ignorance was born. An avoidable tragedy spawned hate... a double shame.

Mason66 said:

A trained professional wouldn't have gone down as easily as Zimmerman.

Zimmerman was out of shape.

A trained professional would have had him in cuffs and on the way to the station.

Click to expand...

Perhaps I misunderstood you. What do you mean by a trained professional? A cop in uniform came to my mind and I see no basis to assume that he would have attacked a cop.

Cigar said:

You're right ... I've made up my mind, based on Historical Facts; if someone follows me in the night and they get close enough, I will push their teeth to the back of their neck, and if they try to pull a Gun on me, I'll group a couple 147 grain Hydrashocks Center-Mass. I won't leave that decision to a so=called jury of my pears ... and I'll sleep like a Baby.

Click to expand...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tettsuo said:

The biggest problem with this case is it simply boils down to one basic fact. Dead men don't tell tales.

All of the anti-Martin talks is rooted in Zimmerman's testimony, where the key points cannot be refuted. It doesn't even matter how ridiculous those points appear, the prosecution could never effectively show them to be false because the only other witness is dead.

Click to expand...

Well you must also remember the circumstantial evidence. There is enough evidence to say that Trayvon was likely a punk kid. I mean he already has 2 strikes...he is a 17 year old male. So testosterone is raging. I'm sure most of us remember that time. But then there was all the other information, broken home, kicked out of one school, time to get home but doesn't, his twitter or whatever.

And like I said. This isn't a condemnation of him. And he doesn't deserve a death penalty over it. He was just a punk kid. And Zimmerman was a dumbass. He wasn't seeking blood. He was "racially profiling." He was out there because there had been a few burglaries in the neighborhood. Some people were glad he was doing that. But he was stupid. He followed the kid when he shouldn't have.

But they got into an altercation, a witness heard Zimmerman yelling for help. And then a gun shot fired in an upward direction.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cigar said:

Even an Untrained, Fat Moron can Control any Situation with a Gun ... that's 75% of The Chicago Police Force and 99% of The Meter Maids. :lamo

Click to expand...

You obviously haven't taken your training seriously. Tueller Drill.

The Tueller Drill Myth: Why The 21 Foot Rule Isn't a Rule At All - ITS Tactical


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Renae said:

A punk kid made a huge mistake, died, and a movement built on lies and fueled by ignorance was born. An avoidable tragedy spawned hate... a double shame.

Click to expand...

Well said

prometeus said:

Perhaps I misunderstood you. What do you mean by a trained professional? A cop in uniform came to my mind and I see no basis to assume that he would have attacked a cop.

Click to expand...

Why would he attack anybody?

Maybe he thought he could kill this guy without any problems.

Mason66 said:

Why would he attack anybody?

Maybe he thought he could kill this guy without any problems.

Click to expand...

That makes no sense. You alleged that a trained professional would have had him in hand cuffs. Can you describe that scenario?

Tettsuo said:

I assume you meant to say Zimmerman, not Martin called the police.

Zimmerman wanted to be a cop. That's why he took it upon himself to go after a guy simply walking in his neighborhood.

Click to expand...

Yea I meant Zimmerman. He was also a neighborhood watch. He was doing exactly what he was supposed to do. He was watching and notified the police.
I think Martin saw he was being followed and lured Zimmerman into a trap. Unfortunately for Martin, Zimmerman was armed and managed to get to his gun before being beat unconscious. Martin was no angel by any means after looking into his history.

PIPEWRENCH said:

Yea I meant Zimmerman. He was also a neighborhood watch. He was doing exactly what he was supposed to do. He was watching and notified the police.
I think Martin saw he was being followed and lured Zimmerman into a trap. Unfortunately for Martin, Zimmerman was armed and managed to get to his gun before being beat unconscious. Martin was no angel by any means after looking into his history.

Click to expand...

https://www.instagram.com/p/g5oz_tGhRa/

According to Trump, Zimmerman is no angel either

Puigb said:

https://www.instagram.com/p/g5oz_tGhRa/

According to Trump, Zimmerman is no angel either

Click to expand...

I think he made a lot of questionable decisions that lead to the killing.

He should not have been alone.
I think he walked into a trap due to inexperience and lack of training. I think he was overanxious which lead to Martin being able to surprise him.
This is a major problem with want to be cops. Trained professionals let the suspect get away before walking into a trap or wrecking their car in pursuit.

He was found not guilty because the evidence did not prove he broke any laws. This is the same as walking out in front of truck when the walk signal says it is OK to cross. If the truck is not stopping you will be dead right. Zimmerman is very lucky he was not dead right.

Five years after Trayvon Martin’s death, myths and lies about case live on

Five years after Trayvon Martin?s death, myths and lies about case live on

The Not Guilty verdict came as no surprise to those of us following the actual evidence.

Today is the 5th Anniversary of the death of Trayvon Martin, who was shot dead by George Zimmerman.

I don’t think any other website has covered the case as extensively as we have. We have hundreds of posts under the tags Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman and George Zimmerman trial. We covered the initial publicity, the pre-trial criminal proceedings, the trial itself, and the post-trial problems George Zimmerman experienced.

Andrew Branca’s live coverage of the trial was epic and widely credited, including by Don West, co-defense counsel for Zimmerman, Unexpected thanks to Legal Insurrection on 2nd Anniversary of Zimmerman Acquittal.

This is Don West, co-counsel for George Zimmerman in the Treyvon Martin shooting.

Today is the second anniversary of George Zimmerman’s acquittal. Because of the hectic pace of the trial, I’ve only recently begun to review much of the coverage of the case; and I want to compliment Legal Insurrection, Professor Jacobson, and especially Andrew Branca for their exceptional coverage of the trial.

The facts of the case were reported fairly and accurately, and the legal analysis was always first rate.

Where so many news outlets and bloggers seemed unconcerned with the actual facts or the law, and were content to combine misinformation with their own misunderstanding, its obvious from the reporting that Legal Insurrection was genuinely interested in the truth and fully understood the legal issues of the case.

Your effort is truly appreciated. Thank you.

blackjack50 said:

Analysis: Trayvon Martin'''s Death Still Fuels a Movement Five Years Later - NBC News

Well it seems to me the that NBC is still trying to stir the pot with racial tension. I get the idea behind being upset about the Trayvon incident. But does anyone feel it is a bit...inappropriate to mention him in the same breath as Emit Till? Or Michael Brown?

Click to expand...

Both Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown were architects of their own death. Not so with Emit Till. It is inappropriate to
Mention Till with either Martin or Brown.
That is not to say there are not valid cases of police misconduct leading to a Black person's death. Oscar Grant, Eric Garner and Terrence Crutcher come to mind. But are these cases if racism or just cases of police incompetence? The first two were clearly incompetence, the third is debatable. Would she have reacted the same way for a White man not responding to instructions? Who knows. But definitely misconduct as she reacted to a person who clearly was not understanding her commands, as immediately dangerous and assuming he would go for a weapon (directly from her interview, and with a caveat on imperfect recall.)

The fact of the matter is that this is a police pattern that is seen around all impoverished communities, especially the ones with denser populations which have higher violent crime rates, especially against strangers (vs domestic violence, and acquaintance disputes).

This article wants us to understand that there is underlying racial tensions in America. You think we don't see it? Of course we do. How can we not? But you want us to ignore the set of personal responsibility as well? We can't do that.

Click to expand...

Racial tensions exist because this country constantly thinks in terms of race and keeps on ignoring sociocultural patterns. Both sides have huge swaths of people who blame issues in terms of race.

We have to ask ourselves why are blacks so disproportionately represented in the crime and murder statistics?

Click to expand...

Multiple factors. Poverty is one, but it doesn't fully explain it. I think many of the Black communities are caught in a vicious circle of self destruction that is also evident in population such as Appalachia. A good read for that is Hillbilly Elegy. Many times multigenerational poverty is exacerbated by self destructive memes that form out of frustration in the past. Rationalizations of why things are bad for the group. Sometimes they may even be true at the time, but the memes become ingrained, even when the problems are no longer there. In the poor Black communities memes of distrust in the very institutions that might help them, medicine, education, law and order, etc are high, because these are the institutions that were used in the past to keep them subservient. And these memes aren't 'Black.' Because many African, AfroCaribean (depending on the island), Afro Latino and even upper class Blacks, do not have most these self destructive memes and it shows in their behavior and their level of arrests per capita etc.

What places them there year in and out?

Click to expand...

Again multigenerational poverty, lack of opportunity, lack of perceived opportunity and distrust in the institutions that could help them. And even worse, distrust innthe system means you have to rely on other systems for protection, like vigilantism, survival of strongest, etc. and you do not hold the norms given by institutions you distrust authority, then you break those norms any time you think you can get away with it. It can even be perceived as rebellion against oppression. And again, it isn't 'Black' as such memes also manifest in other historically destitute groups like Latinos and Native Americans, and even some poor White communities.

This is not to say that Black communities do not face discrimination. But many times perceived discrimination is really not.

The other issue is implicit bias. Even with no intent of racism or bias, with overexposure to criminal elements of one group versus others, overrepresentation can lead to implicit bias development that can affect how a person subconsciously reacts to people of that group. I addressed this here:
https://salsassin.wordpress.com/201...ates-what-happens-when-numbers-arent-neutral/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

blackjack50 said:

And how much control do they have as a group? What can "they" do?

Click to expand...

That is one of the biggest problems. How much they can control and what they perceive they can control can be quite different.

And what exactly are people proposing "we" do? Do they just want us to give more handouts in the form of welfare?

Click to expand...

That clearly doesn't work. If assistance is given it has to be temporary and on
A diminishing scale the more people cyclically rely on it. It should be a leg up to help people back on their feet, not a permanent crutch. But it should be there for people who are clearly trying to swim and still drowning.

It definitely isn't a law and order issue except when we are talking of police brutality, misconduct, or negligence due to improper training, which happens a lot more in impoverished communities. In fact, if you restrict the rates of police arrests and homicides, justified or not, to Impoverished communities, you will find that the rates for Poor Whites are not that different than the rates for poor Blacks and when you factor in population density the differences are even less. Add the effect of implicit bias due to overexposure and we can have an understanding of the real differences between the two. Fact is, the rate of poverty in urban areas is much higher in Blacks and that means higher crime rates and more police exposure.

Are we supposed to ignore a crime committed by a black kid? Or an adult? Does any of that just breed more success? True success?

Click to expand...

Obviously we cannot do that. But we do have to factor for implicit bias that does occur and figure out a way to combat it, for those who are innocent in the system.

Stand your ground law was never used to defend Zimmerman. Its place within the context of that court room drama is only due to an ignorant media who blared it at every turn to sway a case whose decision they had already decided the outcome on.

Click to expand...

Correct. Also, Zimmerman was not only acquitted of Murder but Manslaughter as well as the judge allowed for the lesser charge to be adjudicated.

I will add that this above article is from the news agency that brought to you edited audio from the Zimmerman 911 call.

Click to expand...

Weren't they also the ones who made the claim that Zimmerman said '****ing coons' which later went to 'goons', 'punks' and eventually cold? I filtered that sucker down and one thing I am sure is that there isn't an 'oo' vowel sound nor a 'uh' vowel sound. It is clearly an 'ou' vowel sound as in nose, blows etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk