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Cleaning Up After Trump

Aberration said:
Thanks. So my next question then is, has any of the quotes been substantiated? Because the very beginning says;

MOSCOW — Russia dismissed a New York Times article published Tuesday night that concluded that members of Donald J. Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign and other Trump associates had repeated contacts with senior Russian intelligence officials in the year before the election.

The Kremlin’s spokesman, Dmitri S. Peskov, said on Wednesday that the Times article and one published by CNN were “not based on facts and do not indicate any specific facts, either.”

And The NY Times has been known to make things up with regards to Trump and Russia. Like the FISA warrants that Tapper said never happened.


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It wouldn't make much sense to acknowledge a quote that directly contradicts a quote you make up later in the same article. Just like our government, other governments lie/contradict constantly. Could it be possible Mr. Rybakov is lying? Sure. But I believe he has far less reason to lie compared to the Kremlin's spokesman.
 
Geoist said:
It was implied in your response: Where in that quote did Jefferson suggest the public ownership of the means of production and the democratic command of the economy?
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No such thing was implied. You are reading more than what is written. It was a simple question.


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Geoist said:
It wouldn't make much sense to acknowledge a quote that directly contradicts a quote you make up later in the same article. Just like our government, other governments lie/contradict constantly. Could it be possible Mr. Rybakov is lying? Sure. But I believe he has far less reason to lie compared to the Kremlin's spokesman.
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I didn't make it up. If it's made up the author of the article did it.


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Geoist said:
Why not devolve further? Why do we need such a Constitution when we end up with a bloated state anyways?
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i dont know if you mean state or State.

the state, meaning of the 50 is limited to its borders [internal] and closer to the people, therefore when problems occur it is easier to correct that problem by the people and if need be they can petition the federal government to hear grievances.

the State as the federal government is meant to be limited in its powers which are external over the union, to bind the states to together, its role was never to be involved in the peoples lives liberty or property , this leaves government powerless concerning them thus it cannot exercise control over them and they maintain their liberty
 
Master PO said:
but you owned the land because it was under an allodial title
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You owned it, huh? So what would the Founders believe should be done to those who refused to pay the tax on that "property?"
 
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Master PO said:
i dont know if you mean state or State.

the state, meaning of the 50 is limited to its borders [internal] and closer to the people, therefore when problems occur it is easier to correct that problem by the people and if need be they can petition the federal government to hear grievances.

the State as the federal government is meant to be limited in its powers which are external over the union, to bind the states to together, its role was never to be involved in the peoples lives liberty or property , this leaves government powerless concerning them thus it cannot exercise control over them and they maintain their liberty
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I am referring to the State.
 
Geoist said:
You owned it, huh? So what would the Founders believe should be done to those who refused to pay the tax on that "property?"
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taxes were not direct, when you have allodial title the government cannot make you pay on it...because it belongs to you.
 
Geoist said:
I am referring to the State.
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he State as the federal government is meant to be limited in its powers which are external over the union, to bind the states to together, its role was never to be involved in the peoples lives liberty or property , this leaves government powerless concerning them thus it cannot exercise control over them and they maintain their liberty
 
Skeptic Bob said:
I have a feeling that Pence thinks there are even odds that he will become President before this 4 years is up. As a result he is going to do his best to seem like a rational, but conservative, politician in the face of Trump's unorthodox behavior. Of course, it is less a risk for Pence than the Cabinet members because unlike them, Pence can't be fired.
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Charlie Sheen on his worst bender seems more sane than this ****nut of a prez.
 
Master PO said:
he State as the federal government is meant to be limited in its powers which are external over the union, to bind the states to together, its role was never to be involved in the peoples lives liberty or property , this leaves government powerless concerning them thus it cannot exercise control over them and they maintain their liberty
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How did that work out?
 
Geoist said:
Many of the Founders originally called for the federal government to be funded through a land tax.

But obviously they would not be able to get that revenue unless it was enforced.
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commerce taxes [indirect taxes] because that is whats is in article 1 section 8 clause 1 that the states shall be direct taxed and not the people.


to forcefully compel people pay taxes violates the founding principles of America set forth in the DOI.
 
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Geoist said:
How did that work out?
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because the government of the u.s. is no longer a "mixed government" as it was created, the power of the state governments who once controlled the senate which was meant to keep the federal government inside it delegated powers and the collective capacity of the people blocked from making law removed and lead to the federal government outside of its powers.
 
Master PO said:
commerce taxes [indirect taxes] because that is whats is in article 1 section 8 clause 1 that the states shall be direct taxed and not the people.


to forcefully compel people pay taxes violates the founding principles of America set forth in the DOI.
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You have been misinformed. Probably watching too much fox news. No one less then George Washington, founding father and first president of the United States, called up the militia as president and commander-in-chief, to forcefully put down the whiskey rebellion, which was just a protest against Taxes.
 
ataraxia said:
You have been misinformed. Probably watching too much fox news. No one less then George Washington, founding father and first president of the United States, called up the militia as president and commander-in-chief, to forcefully put down the whiskey rebellion, which was just a protest against Taxes.
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Master PO would probably say it was an indirect tax and therefore under the authority of the Constitution.

But then the question is raised, could a libertarian defend Washington's actions? I am not talking about from a legal POV, but a libertarian POV. What makes indirect taxes any less 'oppressing' than direct taxes? Either way, all citizens would have to pay them. Furthermore, why would a libertarian 'punish'/'fine' the most productive members of society through sales tax? Does commerce not drive our economy? If taxes deter certain activities then why do people like Master PO want to deter commerce?
 
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