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Why I am a libertarian[W:50]

A

Ace300

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Joined
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Political Leaning
Libertarian
The reason I am a Libertarian is that all while I was growing up, I always had issues with what I considered stupid rules in my home, at school or on the road. Once I grew up, I learned about libertarianism, studied it, and it made sense.

So what do I think makes sense? The idea that someone should not be punished for an act that did not cause harm. Meaning harm to another person or person's property.

I have since learned, that according to the Constitution, U.S. courts only have jurisdiction if there is a case (The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases). In order for there to be a case, there needs to be standing, meaning an injured party.

This means that courts don't have jurisdiction if someone is accused of prostitution, illegal gambling, selling drugs, selling unregulated meat, selling raw milk, doing business without a license, not obeying regulations, etc., etc.

The problem I believe is people don't understand jurisdiction and therefore don't demand evidence of it in courts. And if you don't stand up for your rights, than you don't really have any.

See MarcStevens.net - No product or service should be provided at the barrel of a gun for more details.
 
Re: Why I am a libertarian

Oh, you are one of those sovereign citizen jackasses.
 
Re: Why I am a libertarian

Ace300 said:
The reason I am a Libertarian is that all while I was growing up, I always had issues with what I considered stupid rules in my home, at school or on the road. Once I grew up, I learned about libertarianism, studied it, and it made sense.

So what do I think makes sense? The idea that someone should not be punished for an act that did not cause harm. Meaning harm to another person or person's property.

I have since learned, that according to the Constitution, U.S. courts only have jurisdiction if there is a case (The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases). In order for there to be a case, there needs to be standing, meaning an injured party.

This means that courts don't have jurisdiction if someone is accused of prostitution, illegal gambling, selling drugs, selling unregulated meat, selling raw milk, doing business without a license, not obeying regulations, etc., etc.

The problem I believe is people don't understand jurisdiction and therefore don't demand evidence of it in courts. And if you don't stand up for your rights, than you don't really have any.

See MarcStevens.net - No product or service should be provided at the barrel of a gun for more details.
Click to expand...

Thats a very extream view that would make more sense if we eliminated the welfare system
'
Then libertarians would be free to do anything - including sleep under a bridge and starve to death.

But the real world does not work that way

However I think the libs have a few good ideas too so I would not totally reject them
 
Re: Why I am a libertarian

Carjosse said:
Oh, you are one of those sovereign citizen jackasses.
Click to expand...

Nope. Sovereign citizen is a contradiction.

By law, there actually are no citizens. A citizen is someone who gives allegiance to a state and the state in return gives protection. U.S. courts have ruled time and again no one is entitled to protection. As such, there are no citizens, legally speaking.

U.S. Citizenship & Naturalization Overview - FindLaw
"A foreign citizen or national can become a U.S. citizen through a process called naturalization. The privilege of citizenship requires allegiance to the United States. In return, a citizen is entitled to its protection."
 
Re: Why I am a libertarian

Mac77 said:
Thats a very extream view that would make more sense if we eliminated the welfare system
'
Then libertarians would be free to do anything - including sleep under a bridge and starve to death.

But the real world does not work that way

However I think the libs have a few good ideas too so I would not totally reject them
Click to expand...

Well, since U.S. courts can only hear cases, and since there is no injured party for not paying taxes, we could get rid of the welfare system if a large portion of the population would stop paying taxes and fight it based on the grounds of no jurisdiction. The United States government did fine with no income taxes up until 1861.
 
Re: Why I am a libertarian

Ace300 said:
Nope. Sovereign citizen is a contradiction.

By law, there actually are no citizens. A citizen is someone who gives allegiance to a state and the state in return gives protection. U.S. courts have ruled time and again no one is entitled to protection. As such, there are no citizens, legally speaking.

U.S. Citizenship & Naturalization Overview - FindLaw
"A foreign citizen or national can become a U.S. citizen through a process called naturalization. The privilege of citizenship requires allegiance to the United States. In return, a citizen is entitled to its protection."
Click to expand...

You are a sovereign citizen, you give libertarians a bad name. You are just insane.
 
Re: Why I am a libertarian

Oh look, someone else who never grew up and learned to deal with reality. :roll:
 
Re: Why I am a libertarian

Ace300 said:
Well, since U.S. courts can only hear cases, and since there is no injured party

for not paying taxes, we could get rid of the welfare system if a large portion of the population would stop paying taxes and fight it based on the grounds of no jurisdiction. The United States government did fine with no income taxes up until 1861.
Click to expand...

In your opinion
 
Re: Why I am a libertarian

Ace300 said:
By law, there actually are no citizens.
Click to expand...

Ever taken a peekaboo at this law?

14th Amendment to the United States Constitution:
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
 
Re: Why I am a libertarian

Ace300 said:
The reason I am a Libertarian is that all while I was growing up, I always had issues with what I considered stupid rules in my home, at school or on the road. Once I grew up, I learned about libertarianism, studied it, and it made sense.

So what do I think makes sense? The idea that someone should not be punished for an act that did not cause harm. Meaning harm to another person or person's property.

I have since learned, that according to the Constitution, U.S. courts only have jurisdiction if there is a case (The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases). In order for there to be a case, there needs to be standing, meaning an injured party.

This means that courts don't have jurisdiction if someone is accused of prostitution, illegal gambling, selling drugs, selling unregulated meat, selling raw milk, doing business without a license, not obeying regulations, etc., etc.

The problem I believe is people don't understand jurisdiction and therefore don't demand evidence of it in courts. And if you don't stand up for your rights, than you don't really have any.

See MarcStevens.net - No product or service should be provided at the barrel of a gun for more details.
Click to expand...
prostitution, illegal gambling, selling drugs, selling unregulated meat, selling raw milk, doing business without a license, not obeying regulations, etc., etc.

No injured parties here? I believe any of those actions can cause injury/harm to the person doing them or others.

If you don't think lawyers have come up with ever defense known to mankind, you haven't been paying attention.
 
Re: Why I am a libertarian

There's a judge or a cop just dying to hear your defense.
 
Re: Why I am a libertarian

Brewdog said:
Ever taken a peekaboo at this law?

14th Amendment to the United States Constitution:
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
Click to expand...

Come on, people like this don't care about reality. They are so far out in la-la land, they can't even see here from there.
 
Re: Why I am a libertarian

Carjosse said:
You are a sovereign citizen, you give libertarians a bad name. You are just insane.
Click to expand...

I'm more or less positive you can't call people insane upstairs.

Anyway, it's logical to conclude that no one can be a citizen without them first giving their allegiance.
 
Re: Why I am a libertarian

WCH said:
prostitution, illegal gambling, selling drugs, selling unregulated meat, selling raw milk, doing business without a license, not obeying regulations, etc., etc.

No injured parties here? I believe any of those actions can cause injury/harm to the person doing them or others.

If you don't think lawyers have come up with ever defense known to mankind, you haven't been paying attention.
Click to expand...

How does doing business without a license cause injury?
 
Re: Why I am a libertarian

Henrin said:
There is no injured party for not paying taxes.
Click to expand...

It hurts refugees because how will they get free housing and food and cell phones?
 
Re: Why I am a libertarian

Ace300 said:
The reason I am a Libertarian is that all while I was growing up, I always had issues with what I considered stupid rules in my home, at school or on the road. Once I grew up, I learned about libertarianism, studied it, and it made sense.

So what do I think makes sense? The idea that someone should not be punished for an act that did not cause harm. Meaning harm to another person or person's property.

I have since learned, that according to the Constitution, U.S. courts only have jurisdiction if there is a case (The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases). In order for there to be a case, there needs to be standing, meaning an injured party.

This means that courts don't have jurisdiction if someone is accused of prostitution, illegal gambling, selling drugs, selling unregulated meat, selling raw milk, doing business without a license, not obeying regulations, etc., etc.

The problem I believe is people don't understand jurisdiction and therefore don't demand evidence of it in courts. And if you don't stand up for your rights, than you don't really have any.

See MarcStevens.net - No product or service should be provided at the barrel of a gun for more details.
Click to expand...

You seem to be a Pure Libertarian. There is also such a thing as a Practical Libertarian. Stefan Molyneux or his guests have described the difference in a couple of his pod casts. Practical Libertarians are often described as "conservatives without the social issues". They understand the need for Government but that it should be so small you can barely see it and that it should have not one micron more power than is absolutely necessary. What is your opinion?
 
Re: Why I am a libertarian

Ace300 said:
The reason I am a Libertarian is that all while I was growing up, I always had issues with what I considered stupid rules in my home, at school or on the road. Once I grew up, I learned about libertarianism, studied it, and it made sense.

So what do I think makes sense? The idea that someone should not be punished for an act that did not cause harm. Meaning harm to another person or person's property.

I have since learned, that according to the Constitution, U.S. courts only have jurisdiction if there is a case (The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases). In order for there to be a case, there needs to be standing, meaning an injured party.

This means that courts don't have jurisdiction if someone is accused of prostitution, illegal gambling, selling drugs, selling unregulated meat, selling raw milk, doing business without a license, not obeying regulations, etc., etc.

The problem I believe is people don't understand jurisdiction and therefore don't demand evidence of it in courts. And if you don't stand up for your rights, than you don't really have any.

See MarcStevens.net - No product or service should be provided at the barrel of a gun for more details.
Click to expand...

Those are some very interesting points. Many of which I don't personally agree with, but to each his own. That said, pay no attention to those who choose to judge you. They have not yet learned that it isn't their call to make.
 
Re: Why I am a libertarian

Henrin said:
There is no injured party for not paying taxes.
Click to expand...

yes there are.

http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/

Your infrastructure is paid for by your taxes. Not paying your taxes gets you a country where basic needs are neglected and fall apart. Dams bust open and threaten whole towns, fires burn because funding cannot be found for firefighters.

And mean while the libertarians ignore this and still say silly things like taxes are not needed or just whinging about the new toy they have to complain about, refugees.
 
Re: Why I am a libertarian

soylentgreen said:
yes there are.

American Infrastructure Report Card | Society of Civil Engineers

Your infrastructure is paid for by your taxes. Not paying your taxes gets you a country where basic needs are neglected and fall apart. Dams bust open and threaten whole towns, fires burn because funding cannot be found for firefighters.

And mean while the libertarians ignore this and still say silly things like taxes are not needed or just whinging about the new toy they have to complain about, refugees.
Click to expand...


Interestingly enough, we now have a President who brags about not paying his taxes. Rather ironic wouldn't you say?
 
Re: Why I am a libertarian

Vetplus40 said:
Interestingly enough, we now have a President who brags about not paying his taxes. Rather ironic wouldn't you say?
Click to expand...

Even more sadder is the fact that many still argue what he did was legal. And probably it was. Which means america has a tax system that encourages the rich and powerful not to contribute anything to the infrastructure of america. Perhaps trump literally does not give a **** and therefore feels entitled not to pay anything towards maintaining a sewage system.
 
Re: Why I am a libertarian

Ace300 said:
Well, since U.S. courts can only hear cases, and since there is no injured party for not paying taxes, we could get rid of the welfare system if a large portion of the population would stop paying taxes and fight it based on the grounds of no jurisdiction. The United States government did fine with no income taxes up until 1861.
Click to expand...

Well they'd have to shrink government a lot for that. I'm good with it. But a lotta folks wont be.
 
Re: Why I am a libertarian

soylentgreen said:
Even more sadder is the fact that many still argue what he did was legal. And probably it was. Which means america has a tax system that encourages the rich and powerful not to contribute anything to the infrastructure of america. Perhaps trump literally does not give a **** and therefore feels entitled not to pay anything towards maintaining a sewage system.
Click to expand...

He did it and constantly bragged about it on the campaign trail. We will likely never know if what he did was legal because he wont release his taxes. You can bet your arse that he has things to hide. The question is what it is that he doesn't want us to see.

Personally, I don't think that he REALLY wanted to win. He wanted to be the leader of a "movement" and not a country. In his entire business career, he has never been about anything but making money and srewing over his business rivals and enemies. Now that he is in the White House, rest assured he will use it to enrich himself at every opportunity. One of the first things that he did after taking office was DOUBLE the fee to join his Mar-A-Lago resort. ..:)

After I saw the Access Hollywood tapes, I blew off him having any change of winning. My wife was scared of him becoming president because of his habit of sexual abuse and crude and vulgar behavior. I told her not to worry because there was no way America was stupid enough to elect him for anything. I was wrong, we indeed are that stupid.

I am not familiar with who is running your government, but I was very impressed with the Australian PM during his recent squabble with Trump. Whomever he/she is, be glad it isn't what we have now. I am seriously afraid that Americas darkest days lie ahead...........:(
 
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Re: Why I am a libertarian

soylentgreen said:
yes there are.

American Infrastructure Report Card | Society of Civil Engineers

Your infrastructure is paid for by your taxes. Not paying your taxes gets you a country where basic needs are neglected and fall apart. Dams bust open and threaten whole towns, fires burn because funding cannot be found for firefighters.
Click to expand...

Taxes also pay for bombs to drop on other people's infrastructure so that their dams bust open and fires burn. And then my same taxes then have to go to build all their stuff back.

Many Democrats and Republicans will try an All or Nothing approach to try and discredit libertarianism. If I don't want to pay 50% of my wealth every year for wasteful taxpayer giveaways, corruption, boondoggles and unjust wars, then surely I don't wish to have ambulance services, fire protection, dams or highways.
 
Re: Why I am a libertarian

Ace300 said:
The reason I am a Libertarian is that all while I was growing up, I always had issues with what I considered stupid rules in my home, at school or on the road. Once I grew up, I learned about libertarianism, studied it, and it made sense.

So what do I think makes sense? The idea that someone should not be punished for an act that did not cause harm. Meaning harm to another person or person's property.

I have since learned, that according to the Constitution, U.S. courts only have jurisdiction if there is a case (The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases). In order for there to be a case, there needs to be standing, meaning an injured party.

This means that courts don't have jurisdiction if someone is accused of prostitution, illegal gambling, selling drugs, selling unregulated meat, selling raw milk, doing business without a license, not obeying regulations, etc., etc.

The problem I believe is people don't understand jurisdiction and therefore don't demand evidence of it in courts. And if you don't stand up for your rights, than you don't really have any.

See MarcStevens.net - No product or service should be provided at the barrel of a gun for more details.
Click to expand...

So you fully believe it should be legal for me to sell fake antibiotics that don't do anything, leading to many deaths, and I should only be punished for doing this, and not prevented?
 
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